What I learned when I met all the big players in UK travel credit cards

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• Frenske says:

  4 Feb4 February 05:59

  No word on the sign up bonuses? Churners might cost the credit card providers quite a lot of money since it is difficult to recoup the costs of over a short period. Unless fees are increased.

• James67 says:

  4 Feb4 February 06:03

  What you didn’t say Rob was that attending this conference probably cost a packet so I just wanted to highlight that for the benefit of those who like to read and exploit ideas on HFP but have an aversion to your making funds from it in any way. That aside, a great informative post; I was pessimistic about the future of this aspect of our hobby going forward but based on your findings it may not be as bad as we first thought, and those like Tesco who have already responded now seem more like knee-jerk reactions. Hard to believe though that MBNA could push balance transfers any harder than they already do. Thanks.

  • Jason says:

    4 Feb4 February 07:02

    Jamrs67

    I think it’s a great article to help us understand how our hobby is funded 🙂
    Now if Rob can go to a credit scoring conference, or infiltrate Experian, we can all work out how to churn properly. 🙂

    • Stu R says:

      4 Feb4 February 07:07

      Hear hear! My credit score is shot to pieces after my latest churn!

      • Mr Cinnamon says:

        4 Feb4 February 10:10

        Strange, mine went up, But why so I have no idea. I am a steady. but not aggressive, churner. I have 6 credit and one charge card, which I know is relatively few compared to some hfp readers, though to most members of the public (and my family) a ridiculous number!

        Barclaycard (who issue the Hilton and IHG cards) offer free notification of your Experian credit score each month via their online services. Apparently mine is 999/999 which I find very surprising, but nice to know.

        • Chris says:

          4 Feb4 February 11:12

          Another great piece of advice, thanks Mr C!

        • Jason says:

          4 Feb4 February 11:46

          Having just received the Hilton card, after cancelling the IHG card in December, and watching my noddle credit score drop every month and now 1/5( lots spent on cards but paid off in full every month) I would find that very useful.

        • Mr Cinnamon says:

          4 Feb4 February 12:47

          Yikes! there must be more to it than just one credit card closure and one new credit card account opening? If it were just Noddle 1/5 why wold they even allow you to open a credit card account? I would query that and have a good look into the information they have recorded about you, surely some error?

        • Talay says:

          5 Feb5 February 04:29

          If you look at the data held (or at least published) on balances, their tracking does not differentiate between someone who has a balance of £1000 which is purely transactional and is paid off in full each month and someone who has a £1000 balance carried forward each month with only minimum payments made. Both count as “green” and in good standing.

          Thus, as I push 6 figures through Amex each year, mostly due to business expenses, it shows a very high monthly balance when the true position is a zero forward balance and only monthly transactional spending.

          I do not know if this data is held centrally in this granular fashion and shared but I suspect it is not and consequently, I may be viewed as someone carrying large unpaid balances forward when in truth, it is quite the opposite.

          Likewise, some loans are listed as having full term interest applied whereas others show only the borrowed amount, net of payments to date.

          Another pertinent fact is that the interest rate applied to each credit account is not published. Someone prudent, borrowing at 0% carries a vastly different risk to another borrowing at 22.9% for instance.

        • Callum says:

          5 Feb5 February 12:00

          Your credit score is utterly meaningless so it’s pointless even discussing it… The only use I can think of for it is if it’s not perfect then you need to check your report.

          With Equifax at least (I’d be surprised if the others are much more nuanced), an unemployed 18 year old with a home shopping catalouge could generally have the same score as a 40 year old with 22 years of flawless history and a mansion. Do you really think their credit worthiness is remotely comparable? There’s a reason why no creditor will look at your credit score, they all want your credit report. (A handful receive scores but they bear no resemblance to the score you see yourself)

• Lumma says:

  4 Feb4 February 06:13

  I can’t be the only person who sees Apple Pay (and similar) for the ridiculous technology for technologies sake that it is. Seriously what is the point of it? Until they invent a phone that has perpetual battery life and every retailer has the ability to accept it, you still need to carry the physical cards with you, so what benefit does it bring?

  • Erico1875 says:

    4 Feb4 February 06:57

    Time and convenience. Most young people,their phone is an extension of their arm.

    • Andrew says:

      4 Feb4 February 07:53

      And don’t forget it’s on your Apple Watch too.

      • Frenske says:

        4 Feb4 February 11:01

        Which has even shorter battery life.

  • Ziggy says:

    4 Feb4 February 07:04

    As someone who uses US credit cards in the UK I love Apple Pay – no more signing credit card slips every time I buy a round in the pub, do a basic (sub £30) shop at a supermarket or buy a coffee. Sure this is a niche benefit that most readers of HFP wont be benefitting from….but it’s still a benefit 🙂

    • Aliks says:

      4 Feb4 February 08:10

      Credit card slips??????????????????????????

      What are these credit card slips whereof you speak?

      • Steve says:

        4 Feb4 February 08:14

        No chip and pin on most cards in the US. Still need to sign the receipt/slip/bill etc to pay

    • Brian says:

      4 Feb4 February 08:36

      We have contactless for that – no signing there, too, also for sub £30 transactions!

      • idrive says:

        4 Feb4 February 08:40

        my US friend has to sign all the time in London and I don’t recall him being able to use contactless (I even think his card is not, a BA VISA).

        Also, I reckon many people do use their US card in UK as they pay up to 3Avios (or other points) per $…you know what it means?? easy points…that’s a huge amount per year..
        also they may need to, for many reasons.

        it would be interesting to read a research on the allocation of points pro capite..differences between US and UK..if any

      • Callum says:

        5 Feb5 February 12:01

        There is occasional signing (well, entering a PIN for us).

  • Stu R says:

    4 Feb4 February 07:05

    When, (or even if) for example the Co-op get their terminals working properly, I can rush down the street, pick up a few essentials and all I need is my phone – no need to go into my work bag in the other room and find my wallet, pull out my card etc.

    ApplePay is super quick, way more secure than contactless using a card because it relies on your fingerprint, and you get an electronic record of the transaction, unlike contactless.

    Once the plethora of retailers who currently seem to accept both ApplePay and contactless Amex but not ApplePay with an Amex attached (!) e.g.. Co-op, Post Office, Scotrail, Morrisons, McDonalds, Boots etc etc, I can see how one day this will be the preferred method of payment for many. After all, a fingerprint is a tad more secure than a 4 digit PIN!

    • nick says:

      4 Feb4 February 10:13

      Playing devil’s advocate, but of course your example of the co-op is exactly what used to happen 40 years ago. Go down there and get your stuff, and they invoice you later. They’d even deliver it to your home for you!

    • Mark says:

      4 Feb4 February 13:57

      Fingerprints aren’t more secure and this needs to be more widely known.

      In fact the CVV on the back of your credit card is more secure than your fingerprint.
      Fingerprints seem convenient, but they’re considerably less secure as an authentication factor because:
      1. You leave them *everywhere*.
      2. You cannot change them when they’re compromised.
      (at least not without skin grafts, perhaps).

      Fingerprint scanners are also notoriously easy to defeat, whether it’s with playdoh, winegums, or even just a photograph.
      Some examples:
      * https://www.grahamcluley.com/2013/09/how-beat-fingerprint-scanners/
      * http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/chaos-computer-club-hacks-iphone-touch-id-scanner-photograph-fingerprints-1481208
      and so on.

  • Jason says:

    4 Feb4 February 07:07

    The one thing I always carry with me is my phone, I even have a case to carry cards with my phone. I would much rather just carry my phone. Also when you pay for something and it notifies you straight away, your card has been used, I think that’s a great way to stop fraud.
    Ps I also hate coins in my pocket, Apple Pay sorts that out!!!

  • Quark999 says:

    4 Feb4 February 08:13

    Not having to faff around pulling a card out of a wallet that needs to be pulled out of a bag on a busy train station platform to buy a bottle of water.
    Or being able to get said bottle of water out of a vending machine without having to carry around half a kilo of metal – “correct change only”…

    • Lumma says:

      4 Feb4 February 09:37

      I still fail to see how it’s any quicker to get a phone out of your pocket than it is to get a wallet out and grab a card. There’s only 3 cards I use for everyday purchases so they’re easy to grab.

      Maybe when all purchases can be made this way, and there is a backup for a flat battery (maybe something like the Barclays bpay stickers) it might be worthwhile.

      In addition, people at the ticket gates on the tube paying with the apple watch look rediculous.

      • Tilly71 says:

        4 Feb4 February 11:19

        Maybe it’s because a phone is superglued to the hand these days for most!

        • Susan says:

          4 Feb4 February 20:23

          Not for me. I hate the ruddy things and given how frequently they seem to get lost / stolen /broken/cloned I’d never trust one for payments. And no I’m not an 80year old technophob , I’m an IT officer 😉

      • DV says:

        4 Feb4 February 14:06

        You can use Apple Pay one-handed, but taking your wallet out and then a card out of the wallet needs two hands. If you try it, you’ll find it’s easier.

  • Toby Warren says:

    4 Feb4 February 08:14

    I thought the same till a recent trip to the U.S.

    Hardly any chip and pin, rarely signed and card machine often out of sight.

    In the U.S. I’d us apple pay

  • The_Real_A says:

    4 Feb4 February 09:53

    There is and continues to be a seismic shift in the way people consume technology. Take for example the consumption of TV. Most young people watch very little TV content “live”, youtube will be their favourite method of watching video – and if you are involved in branding or marketing then Zoella, marcus Butler and gang has the highest penetration rate of any media is that kind of demographic.

    Use of technology for spending in no different. I already have all my (36!) loyalty cards stored digitally on an android app – im waiting for Android pay to be launched and i will do away with my wallet all together.

    • nerd. says:

      5 Feb5 February 10:49

      Which App? I know of one, Beep’nGo, but it only works (i.e. for scannign) with new Samsungs. Have you managed to find one that works with a wider range of phones?

  • nick says:

    4 Feb4 February 10:04

    Unless you never spend more than £30, you still need a card with you. I have no doubt that there are better products than Apple Pay in the pipeline from other providers, but of course Apple don’t ever need to be the best at anything as they have such a loyal customer base that their product will be the main one anyway.

    Apple Pay is a problem for points collection. I strongly suspect that it erodes the interchange earned by credit card issuers. When you consider that they’ve already taken a serious hit by virtue of the VISA commitments/EU regs, Apple Pay (likely) taking a healthy chunk of the diminished interchange is a bit of a double whammy really, and for no obvious consumer benefit. The devil will be reaching for his winter coat long before I ever use it.

  • A- says:

    4 Feb4 February 13:06

    Its not about convenience, its about branding. Helps users of Apple be part of the Apple brand…at least in their heads.

• Greenpen says:

  4 Feb4 February 07:13

  Private credit cards? Marks and Spencer once did this but dropped it years ago. However, at the time they did not take any other credit card so were probably forced to drop it because of commercial pressure.

  • Andrew says:

    4 Feb4 February 07:52

    Private credit cards are basically just a return of the store cards we saw everywhere but have now been all but eliminated in favour of co-branded credit cards. Be interesting if we saw a return of them as a result of this legislation.

• andystock says:

  4 Feb4 February 07:29

  Apple Pay is slower than a contactless / oyster card at a ticket gatenon the tube, train, bus.

  • Oh! Matron! says:

    4 Feb4 February 09:20

    When using a phone, incredibly so.

    When using a watch, perhaps 0.5 seconds longer

  • Lumma says:

    4 Feb4 February 09:54

    And you look ridiculous doing it.

    • Callum says:

      5 Feb5 February 12:05

      While I’ve never seen anyone doing it, I’m struggling to understand how holding a wrist against a machine that’s basically wrist height could possibly look “ridiculous”.

  • TT says:

    4 Feb4 February 11:20

    Have you tried scanning your fingerprint before you reach the gate?

    If you double tap your home button (with the tip of your finger, so it doesn’t auto-unlock it) it should bring up the Apple pay scan, then scan your fingerprint, authorisation lasts about 30s before you have to re-scan it.

    Makes it much quicker at the gate (though still a few milliseconds slower than card).

• Mr Bridge says:

  4 Feb4 February 07:31

  But what about the 3% fx fees?? that usa amex holders dont pay and we do.
  Thought I solved the issue with my supercard.
  Last year worked fine in Dublin, Boston and Bermuda
  Last week was declined in Thailand on 550 and 775 hotel charges
  was accepted in a store in Singapore, declined for £600 hotel charges in raffles, £72.00 afternoon tea in raffles and £35 in local restaurant.
  worryingly, 2 of the declined transactions show as pending purchases.

  Travelex has told me the declined happened, because the transactions took too long ??( mbna -bmi linked card-said they didn’t decline them, and I had informed them of my travel.

  In 30 years of having credit cards i have never suffered the embarrassment of a declined transaction. My supercard is now cut into tiny pieces.

  • Jason says:

    4 Feb4 February 08:35

    That’s what they told me too, it eventually turned out that a couple of transactions I had made didn’t hit my linked card. I hadn’t noticed until they sent me a letter some 6 months later. Interestingly my card started to work again after this had been rectified. Might be worth checking

    • Rob says:

      4 Feb4 February 08:50

      I did chat to 2 Supercard guys who were there. They seemed genuinely oblivious to these issues, which impacted me as well.

      • TimS says:

        4 Feb4 February 09:11

        The issue I have had recently with Supercard is that it is currently not possible to change your linked/primary card using the Android App and, despite their CS telling me it was possible to do it via the website, I wasn’t able to do it that way either.

        The only possible way to change your linked card seems to be via the iPhone app.
        You can add cards via the website & Android and can delete cards via website but you can’t cnahge your primary card. Even if you delete your current primary, it won’t let you link any other cards to your Supercard except via Apple devices!

        Kind of makes the Supercard useless to non-Apple users if their primary card is lost/stolen until they fix the issue!

        • Melvin says:

          4 Feb4 February 11:46

          You can change the primary card via the website however it’s incredibly flaky. I found that if you change the nickname at the same time then this forced it to commit the primary card change too.

        • Roberto says:

          4 Feb4 February 14:20

          Melvin – you are the bomb… I have been trying to change my primary for weeks now and your suggestion did it instantly.

        • Avioso says:

          4 Feb4 February 17:04

          Just to chime in to say thanks Melvin for the tip. Was experiencing the same issues as TimS and this is a useful workaround until the Android bug is fixed.

        • Nick says:

          4 Feb4 February 23:02

          I have had no problems with my Supercard in Thailand, Singapore or Hong Kong recently.. I can also change my primary care via my Android app.

  • John says:

    4 Feb4 February 09:14

    Supercard is a UK transaction so informing the bank of your travel has the opposite effect.

    Supercard needs to authorise itself and your actual card within 3 seconds. Sometimes the phone line is poor from certain countries.

    I don’t find a declined transaction embarrassing. I always have 2 backup cards to pay with, but the few times my card has been declined it has been the retailers fault. In make them try another terminal or try again and this has always succeeded.

  • Simmo says:

    4 Feb4 February 09:54

    Are there any ‘new’ supercard type products available? I missed out on the pilot!

    • Rob says:

      4 Feb4 February 09:58

      Watch this space – I have a MASSIVE story breaking in 2 weeks.

      • Mr Cinnamon says:

        4 Feb4 February 10:16

        We will be able to use Amex on Supercard?

        • Rob says:

          4 Feb4 February 10:17

          Getting warm ….

        • Aeronaut says:

          4 Feb4 February 11:15

          My guess is a Luncheon Vouchers / Diners Card joint venture for ‘pay by phone’ parking in Rotterdam…

        • Melvin says:

          4 Feb4 February 11:54

          Rob, don’t do that!

          I have to pay for a holiday in two weeks time and despite the fee, I am planning on putting it through my Virgin Amex as I need to spend £20k (2 x £10k) to get 4 upgrade vouchers. If I could link to my Supercard then this would be huge!

        • Mr Cinnamon says:

          4 Feb4 February 12:41

          Amex are introducing their own version of Supercard so we can link Amex to it and avoid FX fees?

        • Jason says:

          4 Feb4 February 13:29

          Do we need to sign up to the beta version as I didn’t last time and couldn’t sign up when it was released 🙁
          Despite trying numerous times, that was a costly piece of laziness not signing up to the original article!!!!

        • Scallder says:

          4 Feb4 February 13:46

          Amex getting rid of FX fees?! Am going to Canada in a couple of weeks and currently have my Supercard linked to the IHG Premium Visa, however if there was a way of using Amex at zero FX fees would certainly swap over to that…

        • Nick M says:

          4 Feb4 February 14:36

          Very excited to find out more…

          I managed to get a Supercard and no major issues as long as transactions are kept under £500. Just a little frustrating how long it takes to actually hit the linked card.

          Would be very interested if there is a way to link to an AMEX!

        • CV3V says:

          4 Feb4 February 15:36

          No foreign exchange fees on Amex Plat? Same as USA?

        • AndyR says:

          4 Feb4 February 16:25

          Lloyds already offer no foreign exchange fees on Amex and you earn 1.25 Avios per £.

          Would be good to have Amex Plat with no foreign fx too if you collect other schemes than Avios I guess.

  • The_Real_A says:

    4 Feb4 February 09:56

    I have no such issues using revolut 🙂 (accept its a different concept of disruptive tech)

  • nerd. says:

    5 Feb5 February 10:56

    I also have regular issues with my card. It’s happened at cash machines and at POS (and online), in multiple countries (Spain and Swizterland at least, probably more) and over a period of many months. No obvious common factor.

    Although the message is usually in ‘foreign’ I gather it’s not “declined” but an “errror” (though I could be mistaken about this). Transactions show up as pending on my account for some time afterwards although there is a hotel charge currently pending on there which has been there for a few weeks now.

    Reported it via twitter and they’re looking into it. Didn’t get anywhere last time I reported it though so not holding my breath.

• Sebastian says:

  4 Feb4 February 07:52

  I’ve used my supercard for three trips with significant spend, one as recent as two weeks ago, and I’ve had every single transaction go through.

  • Mr Cinnamon says:

    4 Feb4 February 12:51

    I have never used my Supercard but decided to update it today. I had to call them 3 times to get my password changed as the account locked repeatedly. In the end I had to delete and then re-upload the app but finally managed to change the connected card and may give in a whirl on my next trip.

• Northern Lad says:

  4 Feb4 February 07:53

  To add credence to the “balance transfer” angle: within 12 days of HSBC halving the earning in the Premier Credit Card, I received my first ever targeted balance transfer offer, which appears quite aggressive. Up until the day prior to the devaluation, I was a ‘heavy user’ of the card, with a decent credit limit but my spending on it ceased overnight.
  “Why wait around when you could be enjoying 0% interest p.a. on balance transfers for 20 months*1 on your HSBC Credit Card, until 29 February 2016.
  You’ll just pay a 2.9% balance transfer fee (min. £5) on each balance you transfer”

  • plastikman says:

    4 Feb4 February 08:04

    halifax frequently do 24 months at 1.5%

    • Northern Lad says:

      4 Feb4 February 08:22

      I’m sure there are better rates, as you’ve put, and specialist balance transfer cards, but this appears to be a tactical change for this card, which, I believe, previously had the best mileage earning rates for MasterCard/visa cards in the UK.

      • Mr Cinnamon says:

        4 Feb4 February 10:01

        There certainly are for those who want to transfer balances between cards, 0% for nearly 2 years and no transfer fee either. So I can see no reason why anyone would use these new marketing tactics from HSBC et al. MBNA certainly are plugging credit transfers too.

        I assume a fairly decent credit score is required to get one?

  • John says:

    4 Feb4 February 09:17

    A poor rate when the highest unlimited savings account for that period would only pay 2%.

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