Curve Card and its new ‘acceptable use’ policy

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• Dann says:

  27 Apr27 April 12:49

  Just to confirm then, we have no fair usage policy for two months if we ordered before Friday?

  • Rob says:

    27 Apr27 April 13:01

    ‘Confirm’ is too strong a word. Under their T&C’s they cannot impose new fees without giving you two months notice so you are unlikely to see any £2 charges. This doesn’t stop them blocking your card from ATM transactions under the old ‘fair use policy’ which was never written down.

    • Dann says:

      27 Apr27 April 13:15

      The old fair usage I did find somewhere, I’ll see if I can find it. It was around £2000 a month

• Simon says:

  27 Apr27 April 13:25

  So I link my AMEX card to my Curve card, and buy a £4,000 watch. All goes through.

  Next day, I link my bank debit card to my Curve card, and return the watch – refund processed on the same card I paid with – my Curve card – refund goes on to my now linked bank card.

  Pay Amex bill. earn Avios…… and repeat.

  Possible ????

  • Dann says:

    27 Apr27 April 13:30

    Omg did that actually work

  • idrive says:

    27 Apr27 April 13:37

    I believe they would reverse the transaction at Curve level, as someone advised above you need to call them and advise case by case, for refunds..
    not sure it would work

  • Matt says:

    27 Apr27 April 15:21

    No, each transaction has a unique ID when they refund it they cross reference the two and cancel off the original transaction to the card that you paid with

    • Andrew* says:

      27 Apr27 April 15:36

      Answer on Twitter to similar question: “we refund the card that you made the original transaction with…”

• idrive says:

  27 Apr27 April 13:42

  it’s funny by the way to see how business owners are spending money…:-) golfclub, watches, holidays:-) good life eh!? ahahah! I love this game!
  I would actually like to book a private jet with my card. you can actually, indeed.
  This would be the smartest way to get Avios/Miles even when not flying the legacy airlines..ahah!

  I just read the Tesco article on Shopperpoints, do we know more or some leaked info on Tesco/BA/Virgin relationships when T will change the scheme?

  • Rob says:

    27 Apr27 April 14:16

    I just got a proper postal letter from Tesco about Boost ending and it is keen to reassure me that all the existing partners ‘with more to be launched soon’ continue as usual.

• vindaloo says:

  27 Apr27 April 13:48

  Has anyone tried adding their Curve card to Apple Pay? I got a message saying the issuer doesn’t support Apple Pay.

  £200 cash limit seems reasonable as it would obviously be abused otherwise, but I have to wonder how they were so naive in the first place that they didn’t impose the limit from the start. It also rather damages one of the card’s selling points, that you can clear all your other cards out of your wallet and just use Curve for everything.

  • Ed says:

    27 Apr27 April 14:08

    The cynic in me wonders whether they were naive or realised it was a great way to get 1) advertising and 2) large numbers paying a fee for the card before changing terms

  • Mel says:

    10 May10 May 01:21

    Hi vindaloo, is it still a plastic card or metal?

• Punter says:

  27 Apr27 April 13:59

  I don’t quite share Rob’s enthusiasm for the card now that the new rules have been clarified, even with the 2 month “grace period” (less in my case as I STILL don’t have the card).

  Anyone know if it’s possible to cancel (I went for the premium version with Tumi wallet but have so far received nothing but a couple of emails…).

  • YL says:

    27 Apr27 April 14:09

    I ordered a black card when it was launched and the card was due to be shipped today. However, I wrote to them a couple of days ago to downgrade to the blue card and was confirmed within few hours that they have amended my order. I guess if you have not received yours, it should be quite easy to cancel.

  • Rob says:

    27 Apr27 April 14:21

    ‘Enthusiasm’ is not necessarily the word, but most people would easily get far more than £35 of value (£25 after the sign-up credit) from this.

    If you have a 0% FX card, rarely spend much at places which refuse Amex, easily hit your £10k 241 spend and consider using it for 1 £200 ATM transaction for 300 Avios too much of a faff then it doesn’t add much for you.

    • Worzel says:

      27 Apr27 April 14:28

      ‘If you have a 0% FX card, rarely spend much at places which refuse Amex, easily hit your £10k 241 spend and consider using it for 1 £200 ATM transaction for 300 Avios too much of a faff then it doesn’t add much for you’

      +1.

      • harry says:

        27 Apr27 April 17:25

        + another 1 🙂

        Not much point in Curve for me, virtually 100% of all my spend already goes on Amex or Visa + MR points (MBNA BMI Diamond Club) – once the latter gets stopped, I might reconsider

    • David says:

      27 Apr27 April 14:31

      There is no sign up credit, you will get £10 of value of Curve rewards if/when Curve launches it’s Rewards scheme – see previous post

      • Sue says:

        27 Apr27 April 14:39

        Im a little confused….if I use Raffles link for a £10 credit how do I receive this? I presumed that I would get £10 back on the card I use to pay the fee? david…how do you know that it will be Curve rewards? I cannot see any info re this. Thanks

        • David says:

          27 Apr27 April 15:55

          see my previous comment with a quote from Curve Support – actually one of the Directors.

          I was probably offered this card the same time as Rob.

          I should also point out that if anyone has paid for their card the product is no longer in “Beta” but in Gold or Production mode. The Card may say “Beta” but if you paid you are a Curve Cusomer not beta tester.

        • Rob says:

          27 Apr27 April 16:22

          It seems the £10 will come back later as a credit when the rewards scheme launches. You won’t be getting it now.

        • Sue says:

          27 Apr27 April 16:35

          Thanks xx

    • Nick says:

      27 Apr27 April 19:20

      I fit that description, but I see the card a bit like I saw the iPad. I don’t need one and it doesn’t do anything that I cant already do easily with things I already have. But I still want one and I’m sure I’ll find a use for it. Let’s not forget that it has it’s own points scheme too!

      • Genghis says:

        27 Apr27 April 20:08

        Which we know nothing about yet…

        • Nick says:

          28 Apr28 April 07:24

          That’s what makes it exciting!

        • Genghis says:

          28 Apr28 April 11:05

          It is a bit of a gamble and I like a bet. I went for the black card with the wallet (“RRP £60”) for the £75. I may still get an OK wallet at the end of it

• Punter says:

  27 Apr27 April 15:06

  Rob,

  Sorry, wasn’t having a go – just a figure of speech 🙂

  The numbers don’t work for me though at £200 ATM per month so I have emailed them to cancel my order – we will see what happens next !

  • WiseGuy says:

    27 Apr27 April 19:36

    What can happen ? They will cancel your order and that’s it …

• Andrew* says:

  27 Apr27 April 15:20

  Someone has asked on Twitter (@imaginecurve) about £200 limit being per credit card or per Curve card…

  Response:

  “Hi Stacey, the limits apply to each card individually, rather than in total on your Curve card. Thanks”

  • Genghis says:

    27 Apr27 April 15:27

    Very interesting! I’ve just taken a screen print of the tweet for future evidence.

    • Brian W says:

      27 Apr27 April 16:48

      +1

      • Genghis says:

        27 Apr27 April 17:19

        Curve have responded to Oliver Edmunds on Twitter issuing a retraction to their previous comment:
        “Oliver, HFP is correct in that the limit is £200 across all credit cards”.
        At least you got a mention, Raffles!

  • Gulz says:

    27 Apr27 April 15:36

    That’s interesting. So I can withdraw £200 each from my Virgin Black Amex, Virgin Black Visa, Virgin White Amex, Virgin White Visa and Hilton Visa.
    Not as good as withdrawing £1000 from Virgin Black Amex, but definitely better than the in total £200 limit.

    • Brian W says:

      27 Apr27 April 16:52

      Seems strange to me to have a FUP that can so simply be undermined by adding more credit cards and thus doubling, tripling, quadrupling the limits of the policy and so forth.

    • Brian W says:

      27 Apr27 April 17:15

      They have already backtracked on Twitter deleting the original tweets and changing their stance to £200 per month over all cards. Also quoted HFP!

      Longer than 25 milliseconds but not by much 🙂

      • Genghis says:

        27 Apr27 April 17:23

        Maybe HfPers seriously influence the Curve business model given that the management team (despite all their apparent credentials) don’t seem to know what product they really want to bring to market.

      • Anon for the moment says:

        27 Apr27 April 18:58

        Is someone going to ask them on Twitter if this £200 limit counts as a change in terms and so comes with 2 months’ notice? 😉

        • harry says:

          27 Apr27 April 19:06

          why waste your time?

          the unprofessional people @ Curve are making it up as they go along

          they don’t really have a clue as to good compliance

        • Brian W says:

          27 Apr27 April 20:49

          Somebody has asked this now. Must be true though as Raffles says so 😉

        • Genghis says:

          27 Apr27 April 21:08

          And Curve say FUP applies from when we activate the card. However, when do we actually accept the terms and conditions? On application? Payment? Activate card?

          Any lawyers around? Is an application just a offer after an invitation to treat?

        • Brian W says:

          27 Apr27 April 21:19

          “Invitation to Treat”………..I remember that from contractual law in Uni many years ago. Always wanted to use that phrase with someone but never had the chance!

          I suspect you may be right, the application is the invitation to treat, like Tesco’s displaying a bag of crisps at 50p for you to make the offer to them at that price. The contract is finalised upon Tesco actually accepting that price (they don’t have to from what I remember!). Suppose it could be argued that the activation is their acceptance of your offer…….and thus the contract starts.

        • Neil says:

          27 Apr27 April 21:17

          Curve have confirmed it will come under the 2 months notice so make hay while the sunshines

        • Alex W says:

          27 Apr27 April 22:20

          No, let’s just stick to the £200 rule and use the card as intended – as a means to pay with an Amex where Amex would normally not be accepted.

          Don’t ruin it for everyone else by cash recycling and driving curve out of business when I haven’t even had a chance to use it yet.

        • Tom says:

          27 Apr27 April 22:38

          To be fair, there is a difference between cash recycling and genuinely wanting to withdraw more than £200 a month. £200 is a ridiculously small amount and changes the outlook on the card completely. It also reflects badly on the people running Curve. They’ve induced a whole load of orders, then changed one of the fundamentals of the card almost immediately.

        • N1David says:

          28 Apr28 April 00:02

          Agree completely. I’m not into cash recycling, but there are months when I do draw over £200/month and I don’t want the hassle of thinking on the 25th “do I have to switch my card before this withdrawal?”. Equally when I’m travelling I have the additional complexity of converting my withdrawals into sterling to see whether I’m at the limit. I’m in the position now of having to keep a “card strategy” in place about different cards for ATM and Purchases, whether home or abroad, and what I’ve spent earlier in the month. Not the simplicity that Curve promised…

        • John says:

          29 Apr29 April 01:17

          So what would you have done before curve, surely you used a credit card for purchases and a debit card for cash withdrawal. Even if cash withdrawals are completely prohibited on curve, the ability to recharge MasterCard to amex is still valuable, even if it’s not worth £35 to everyone.

        • Oscar says:

          30 Apr30 April 15:28

          Totally agree. Wanting more than £200 per month does not necessarily mean you are a “cash recycler”!

        • Chris says:

          28 Apr28 April 07:15

          You can still withdraw as much cash as you want from an ATM with a debit card (or a credit card with a fee).

          Surely nobody believed that free unlimited ATM withdrawals from a credit card would last.

        • Roberto says:

          28 Apr28 April 08:47

          “Surely nobody believed that free unlimited ATM withdrawals from a credit card would last.” well it still does on supercard albeit up to the 6th of June..

        • John says:

          29 Apr29 April 01:13

          Supercard is limited to £250 per day on average and £20000 over the year. I’ve already hit the limit.

        • rams1981 says:

          29 Apr29 April 10:08

          is that a cash limit? I’ve spent over £20000 with it

        • Mr Dee says:

          29 Apr29 April 18:36

          That is the written spending limit…

        • Tom says:

          28 Apr28 April 13:02

          Maybe not unlimited, but £200 is low.

          Also, to an extent, what I believe doesn’t come into it. The Company advertised something as fact when procuring my business.

        • Talay says:

          28 Apr28 April 16:15

          Serious flaw with Curve.

          Online transaction done for just less than £1000 and declined. Two days later I complete the same transaction face to face. Retailer confirms decline. Curve took money from AMEX both times !!!!!!

          You can’t phone Curve except for lost and stolen but I did as anyway and it may be resolved but they do not have as failsafe in place even to question duplication.

          This software is Amateur Hour I’m afraid and their error detection worse.

          Watch your statements carefully !

        • Yuff says:

          28 Apr28 April 18:22

          I tried to pay an invoice in an office today for just under £1500 – insufficient funds.
          Tried £100 it worked.
          Tried £500 insufficient funds.
          Amex card has not been charged.
          Email sent to curve, no response.
          Very irritating, it’s supposed to be for business user, you can’t get very far if you can’t spend overc£200 🙁

        • Brian W says:

          28 Apr28 April 19:03

          I had a transaction declined on Sunday which was shown twice on Amex account as pending. Still says pending today 5 days later. Curve responded to email to them and said it was ‘automatically reversed on decline’. Keeping an eye on those two entries daily to make sure they do just ‘drop off’ the account.

          Once the message came out earlier today that the online bugs were fixed I successfully paid the same bill over both the wife and I’s Curve cards, £1,207 on each linked to BAPP’s so it does work now for bigger amounts but certainly seems to be hit and miss by the sounds of it.

        • Yuff says:

          28 Apr28 April 20:39

          Curve have responded

          “We have spend limits for the Curve card to protect against fraud. They are:

          £2000 per single transaction
          £3000 per day
          £5000 per month
          £200 cash withdrawal per day

          Curve limits will be increasing over time, as you cultivate a spend history with us, and as we grow as a business. We’ll keep you informed about any changes and increases to spend limits as they occur. I hope this is helpful.

          As for the online payments, we have had a bug over the last couple of days as a result of one of our partner systems. I’m pleased to say this has been fixed, and online payments are now working well. “

        • Mr Dee says:

          28 Apr28 April 23:33

          The question is did it post or just shows as pending, if pending then it will likely be removed after a couple of days, still a pain to have the amount showing as pending.

        • Paul L says:

          28 Apr28 April 21:44

          This ultimately is why I decided to cancel while I can get the preorder fee refunded. I feel like they used unrealistic limits to attract orders. Even if they were forced to make this change at the last minute by Amex they still could have communicated it better.
          The limit in the UK would be fine for me most months, but I would easily go over £200 when abroad. If that were the only fee I probably have kept it but on top of the exchange rate fee and ATM fee it is too much.

          Other lesser reasons for me are:
          I thought the app was very poor.
          I am disappointed with how they handled the declined transactions issue. They make us use an app to managed the card – couldn’t they have put a message there to warn us?
          I am concerned that at some point retailers may start blocking these cards under the june 2016 interchange changes. It may be that the currently issued cards dont yet advertise their rate to card readers so would be fine, and it will take a while for card terminals to be updated to block cards, but I still think it is a risk the card will start being declined.

          To curves credit I got a response from support confirming they would cancel and refund my card just 40 minutes after emailing them. I may sign up again in a few months once all this has settled and the new supercard has been released.

        • harry says:

          28 Apr28 April 22:18

          Curve not shaping up to be a massive success – despite the cool packaging & overblown PR (much of which has turned out to be exaggeration/ not entirely true…)

          So – if you were invited early & managed to chow like a greedy little piglet on 3000 free ATM Avios, probably 6000 if you had a 2-point card – all well & good.

          Nowadays, no such luck. £200 a month? You’re having a laugh, many of on holiday need multiples of that @ ATM on holiday.

          So – Curve is PLAGUED with problems, which is what you expect with a beta – this IS a beta, ie a far from perfect working version – you’re all guinea pigs.

          Normally beta version guinea pigs get something in return for their goodwill.

          Looks like you lot are just getting screwed over.

        • BLT says:

          28 Apr28 April 22:25

          Why so bitter Harry and why spend so much time commenting on a card you don’t even have? Personally I got my card yesterday, registered it to my BMI amex and Virgin amex and have made over £1k purchases today on line inp laces that don’t accept amex. Thats 1000+ extra avios/ FC miles in one day! Seems a good card to me. Ans all has worked flawlessly.

        • Bob says:

          29 Apr29 April 07:06

          Mine works for me it’s no disaster just extra Avios which I wouldn’t have had. Really pleased!

        • Oscar says:

          29 Apr29 April 10:08

          Neil, where did Curve confirm this? I got my card a few days ago and have just written to them asking for a full copy of my T’s&C’s as they apply at the moment, as well as a clarification on when any intended changes will kick in.

          Raffles, any comment on this post from the MoneySavingExpert forums yesterday:

          “[Raffles] said that the Fair Use Policy would start in two months time for anyone who had ordered the card by 22nd April.

          This is not the case.

          You may remember that it was posted above that it seemed strange that Curve dispatched many hundreds of cards on Monday 18th April via 1st class mail (with a next-day delivery target for 90% of items) but cards weren’t delivered until Saturday 23rd April.

          According to Curve, anyone who activated their card on Friday 22nd April or later will be subject to the new Fair Use Policy immediately – and will incur fees if they use their debit card at an ATM each day, or withdraw more than £200 on a credit card.

          I do not know if the blogger advised otherwise because he misinterpreted the terms and conditions or was wanting to put consumer pressure on to Curve to give people a fairer deal.”

        • Rob says:

          29 Apr29 April 11:12

          The official Curve line is that the T&Cs are the ones in force on the day you activated the card. I now have that in writing from them.

          There is zero chance that this would stand up if challenged with the FCA as you have paid for the card before this date. (The irony is that I have a Consumer Credit Licence and they don’t so I probably have a better understanding of the FCA regime.)

          However, as Curve is also offering you 14 days to cancel this does mitigate the impact and it is difficult to see what benefit an FCA complaint would get you. It is worth noting that the FCA would take a very dim view on cash recycling anyway so any complaint to them which implied this is what you wanted to do and now you can’t would not go far …..

        • Genghis says:

          29 Apr29 April 11:26

          One of the FCA high level principles is that “A firm must pay due regard to the information needs of its clients, and communicate information to them in a way which is clear, fair and not misleading.” Now Curve have put the Ts and Cs and last Friday’s FUP on their website but have not actually informed customers of the changes directly (e.g. email or letter). People having to search around on their website, in my opinion, does not meet the requirements of this high level principle.

        • Mr Dee says:

          29 Apr29 April 18:34

          Correct this is why banks send out letters often with a change in their terms and conditions.

        • harry says:

          29 Apr29 April 18:57

          ISTR that complaints to the Financial Ombudsman don’t cost you a penny but prove pretty expensive to the other party, even if you are wrong with your complaint.

        • Genghis says:

          29 Apr29 April 21:43

          Correct. But you have to give the financial firm 8 weeks to resolve your complaint.

        • Mr Dee says:

          29 Apr29 April 18:33

          I’d be more inclined to go by the date that your american express got charged rather than an activation of their product.

  • Liz says:

    27 Apr27 April 15:48

    Well spotted!

• Louis says:

  27 Apr27 April 15:26

  Question/idea:

  Can you play for your Amex statement bill using your Curve Card? If the Curve Card is (at surface level) a debit card, then could you not pay your bill using your Curve Card but with your Amex Card as the designated payment choice?

  I’m guessing I’ve missed something fundamental here, but can you not…?:
  – Spend £200 on your BA Card
  – Pay your bill using Curve (which is mastercard, but has the BA Amex hiding behind it)
  – The £200 appears on next month’s bill(!)

  Someone help me out!

  • idrive says:

    27 Apr27 April 15:32

    I think you may technically do it but Amex would not be happy about it and block the account OR they may block all payments with card starting in the curve range, as they did with 3V in the past.
    Unless this is already blocked as the card is classified in a particular way.

  • Gulz says:

    27 Apr27 April 15:40

    Curve is considered a Prepaid Mastercard, and Amex (and AFAIK other credit card issuers) does not let you pay the bill with a prepaid card.

    • Dann says:

      27 Apr27 April 21:12

      You can pay your Amex with a mondo card!

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