Bits: Virgin Atlantic scraps Combi Fare, Hilton Visa application criteria eased

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• David says:

  7 Oct7 October 05:40

  The fact that a supposedly “new” system is what is responsibly for ‘CombiFare’ no longer being possible shows how mad, bad and antiquated a lot of airline technology is.

  This is a move that makes no sense. CombiFare is EXACTLY the kind of product that logically should be available for people to select and use. Any new entrant system would be able to support this kind of thing straight out the box. Especially for itins that only involve your own flights.

  I wonder if it is a switch to use Delta systems that is responsible. What a tragedy that is. Should just rename it Virgin America… oh.

  • John says:

    7 Oct7 October 07:55

    Virgin Atlantic is an appropriate name, since they don’t fly anywhere else any more. Or perhaps Delta UK.

    • Bob says:

      7 Oct7 October 07:58

      Yes. It is an appropriate name. Very insightful.

    • David says:

      7 Oct7 October 08:27

      I’d be happiest with Delta UK. Even though I don’t fly to the USA.
      Then start again with a proper Virgin Europe option, country neutral brand ala easyjet, etc.

      (I can still remember the old Virgin Express > SN Brussels > …)

    • Genghis says:

      7 Oct7 October 08:30

      There’s still a few destinations out East and in Africa – granted, not many…

  • Andrew (@andrewseftel) says:

    7 Oct7 October 09:04

    Makes total sense to me. VS are presumably buying some off the shelf system and then paying through the nose to customise it to their business. Someone high up got an eye-watering quote to develop CombiFare on the new system – a feature that I guess something like 0.1% of customers use and even on an optimistic business case would take decades to pay back the dev cost.

    • David says:

      7 Oct7 October 09:43

      My feeling is that they are getting the current legacy delta system. And customisation of legacy can be even more expensive…

      • Aeronaut says:

        7 Oct7 October 15:47

        Yep, it’s just like a subsidiary or an acquisition being brought into the fold. of the mother company.

        Like others say, perhaps it’s best now to think of Virgin Atlantic as Delta UK, a slightly headstrong regional division that gets indulged with a bit of special treatment.

  • World Traveller says:

    8 Oct8 October 08:42

    Thanks to Google…

    Virgin Atlantic has announced that it will move to AIR4, an innovative suite of passenger service systems (PSS). AIR4 offers reservation, ticketing and departure control functionality, as well as enhanced web, kiosk and mobile capabilities, featuring customer-centric options such as automated bag drop and disruption management.

    The best-in-class suite of systems has been built on Delta’s proven PSS technology platform and has been selected by Virgin Atlantic following a thorough tender and evaluation process. AIR4’s implementation represents a step change in Virgin Atlantic’s technology portfolio and will cement the Virgin Atlantic/Delta joint venture as the most customer-focused transatlantic airline partnership, ensuring seamless experiences for both Delta and Virgin customers.

    AIR4 (Access Information Real-time for Customers) will be fully distinct from Delta’s PSS but close alignment will allow Virgin Atlantic to benefit in full from Delta’s extensive development pipeline, creating huge opportunities for innovation and customer service improvement.

    Virgin Atlantic Director of Network and Alliances Joe Thompson said:
    “This is a further example of how our partnership with Delta Air Lines can bring extensive benefits both to our customers and to our business. By accessing Delta’s expertise and development plan we can build even better customer journeys, and offer an even more joined-up experience for customers travelling on our joint venture services.”

    Perry Cantarutti, Delta’s Senior Vice President for Europe, Middle East and Africa, added:

    “Virgin Atlantic’s decision to use Delta’s core customer service technology platforms will simultaneously eliminate passenger experience seams and means that we can share long-term IT investments and direction which are key differentiators for our joint venture.”

• Mycity says:

  7 Oct7 October 05:53

  Rob, re the Hilton card you say they they have removed the reference to multiple applications, does this now mean you will get the free nights more than once?

  • Genghis says:

    7 Oct7 October 05:59

    It still says “Certificate will only be awarded for first time applicants of the Hilton HHonors Platinum Visa card”.

• Gavin says:

  7 Oct7 October 06:13

  Good news re the Hilton card. Aim to use the free night at some point next year

• Steve says:

  7 Oct7 October 06:31

  Re. Avios Dining Programme

  Note that the ResDiary Avios page indicates that their 21 November launch date is set to coincide with Aer Lingus joining the Avios Travel Reward Programme.

  Also, they will initially concentrate their marketing on Ireland while the UK campaign will only begin January 2017.

  • Raffles says:

    7 Oct7 October 08:35

    If they are waiting for AerClub to launch it could be a while!

• Metatone says:

  7 Oct7 October 06:41

  Stupid question – do companies cross reference the details you put on card applications?
  As someone who is self-employed/business owner, the earnings figure is always an estimate I make by calculating through how things have gone so far in the year and how it looks for the rest of the year. Trouble is, I can’t remember the figure I came up with when I applied for a card in March. Will it ring alarm bells if new estimates mean I end up with a different one?

  • Andrew (@andrewseftel) says:

    7 Oct7 October 06:48

    This is fairly common practice, yes.

  • Matt says:

    7 Oct7 October 07:20

    To be clear, most card companies are parties to a scheme called CIFAS which is used to detect first-party fraud (i.e. misrepresenting oneself in a credit application). If your income fluctuates significantly between applications in a short space of time, you may trigger a rule for further investigation, however, if you can demonstrate that income to be accurate, it shouldn’t be a barrier to gaining approval.

    • Talay says:

      7 Oct7 October 07:25

      Whilst correct, you should really just remember a number and adjust it upwards over time but then keeping it accurate.

      In truth, it need bear no relation to your real income save for mortgage applications which would then refer back to previous salary statements on credit applications but in general there is no need to have a constantly moving number in each application.

      On BMW finance last year, them giving my wife a £60k car with a frankly ludicrous £2k down, they didn’t even want to know salary, where she worked etc. at all. It was all done on the basis of what was already there at the reference agencies.

      • Genghis says:

        7 Oct7 October 07:35

        Agreed. I always put my salary down excluding bonus so the earnings figure doesn’t fluctuate too much. As I’m underrepresenting what I earn prob means credit limit is lower than could be, but not really an issue for me.

      • Andrew (@andrewseftel) says:

        7 Oct7 October 09:06

        Not any more! Bureaux now offer income validation services based on how much money is flowing through your current account. It’s fairly niche at the moment, but no doubt will become much more common given the FCA’s focus on improving the quality of affordability assessments.

        • Genghis says:

          7 Oct7 October 09:55

          Interesting. Are all card companies doing this at present? If not, do you know anything about roll out?

        • Andrew says:

          7 Oct7 October 10:46

          This is true, but I understand that people like me can cause system misunderstandings

          For example.

          My salary goes into my LBG No1 current account. The next day, I have a standing order that transfers a sum equal to all of my monthly SO&DD to my LBG No2 current account. I manually transfer the sum equivalent to my monthly energy use from my Smart Meter to my LBG No3 current account. My LBG No4 current account is for private practice work.

          From my LBG No2 account, £300 is transferred each month to:-

          HSBC Current Account
          First Direct Current Account
          Marks & Spencer Current Account
          Nationwide Current Account

          These are mostly to service Regular Savings Accounts held with these organisations.

          Divdends are credited to my Barclays Current Account.

        • Genghis says:

          7 Oct7 October 10:51

          That sounds like an awfully complex banking structure

        • Fenny says:

          7 Oct7 October 18:41

          Until I have time to sort out Pa’s various pension payments into the correct accounts, I have to transfer £500 from one of his accounts into mine and back again – usually in the space of 5 minutes – to make sure his account has the regular income required to trigger the benefits. So my account has £500 a month more going in than I earn.

        • RIccati says:

          7 Oct7 October 11:26

          Credit records for current accounts only show

          How ON EARTH, the credit bureaux get access to the amounts and dates of deposits to the current account. And if they do based on some small box you tick on an application, would that be the first thing for the regulators to ban and prohibit banks to sell the current account data to third parties.

          We are talking about non-aggregated, personified, client-specific information here. If such information get sold or leak systematically for IB clients — the bank will go out of business.

        • RIccati says:

          7 Oct7 October 11:28

          PS. Credit records only show the amount of debt (overdraft) used for current accounts, at a particular reporting day.

          Not positive balances.

        • Matt says:

          7 Oct7 October 17:09

          Banks do not “sell data”, rather they pay to access a platform to share such data with other banks on a reciprocal basis. This is completely separate to the data you see on your credit report.

    • John says:

      7 Oct7 October 08:00

      Nope, CIFAS operates databases which record details of people who have been victims of fraud and identity theft. This prevents automatic approval of any new applications in case it is a fraudster making the application.

      Things like your declared income on credit card applications and employer details are submitted to National Hunter.

  • John says:

    7 Oct7 October 07:58

    Yes – they submit this information to National Hunter. You can order a report about yourself for £10.

    If no discrepancies are detected, the information is removed after 6 months. If disrepancies are detected, the information is kept for 6 years.

    Checks by financial institutions are not immediate. This is why people sometimes receive a new credit card which is cancelled by the bank a few days later.

    • Genghis says:

      7 Oct7 October 08:34

      You sound very knowledgeable on this, John. Have you obtained a National Hunter report before? What does it show?

    • Andrew (@andrewseftel) says:

      7 Oct7 October 08:41

      Not necessarily immediate. Hunter can handle real-time queries these days.

• Big Eck says:

  7 Oct7 October 06:44

  Re Hilton card, this change must have been in effect last month as I was accepted for the card, having another Barclaycard, 3 weeks ago. Also Barclaycard has an eligibility checker so you can gauge the likelihood of getting a card without affecting your credit rating.

  • Lumma says:

    7 Oct7 October 10:53

    The eligibility checker even asks in its first question “Do you already hold a barclaycard?”. So it must not longer be an issue with any of their cards.

    Weirdly, the checker has me at 9.5/10 approved on all of their cards except for the one for people with no or bad credit which it says is 6/10

• Nigel says:

  7 Oct7 October 06:55

  The Virgin move is not only bad news but surely bad for business? The “computer says no” idea seems rather hollow as I cannot imagine Virgin doing away with one of their USP’s because a new computer system won’t cope. Don’t you install a system that works with what you want to do, not the other way round? Without a 2-4-1- offering like BA, Combi Fare was always a sensible way for Virgin to compete. Not any more – now you need (roughly) twice the number of Virgin miles to get the same ticket as the BA 2-4-1. That mountain could be too high for many to climb (including past users like me), and I think Virgin may live to regret this.

  • Bob says:

    7 Oct7 October 08:04

    No, you don’t really need twice the number of miles on VAA as with a BA 241 do you? JFK is 80k each in UC – so 160k for 2. BA would be 120k with 241. So Virgin is one third more, but without needing to wrangle the voucher and available to solo travellers too.

  • Bob says:

    7 Oct7 October 08:04

    No, you don’t really need twice the number of miles on VAA as with a BA 241 do you? JFK is 80k each in UC – so 160k for 2. BA would be 120k with 241. So Virgin is one third more, but without needing to wrangle the voucher and available to solo travellers too.

  • HAM76 says:

    9 Oct9 October 23:34

    When moving to a new computer system it’s standard procedure to not implement mplex features that only a small minority uses. I’d be surprised if there are more than 0.1% passengers affected. Most passenger on a flight are paying. Among the non-paying minority most will book a return or a one way on purpose. Frankly, being in IT, I would have recommended the same thing to my clients.

• David S says:

  7 Oct7 October 06:58

  Sorry for OT, but a question about the 1000 Avios for BA bookings for change of inflight catering. I have 3 bookings for next year and I thought that the 1000 Avios compensation was for per booking but BA say they will only offer me 1000 Avios per person irrespective of number of bookings. Any experience from others or thoughts?
  I am definitely not cancelling the trip for loss of a few G&Ts

  • Jono says:

    7 Oct7 October 07:27

    Over on Flyertalk a number of people have only been offered 1000 avios per person, not per flight.
    One poster has 30 flights booked – 1000 avios won’t go far. It’s a pretty poor show.

    I have to get my compkaint in, so we’ll have to see what happens.

  • Genghis says:

    7 Oct7 October 07:38

    Still worth MCOL? I would if I was affected but then I like a good ‘game’.

  • Oh! Matron! says:

    7 Oct7 October 09:13

    I was awarded 750 miles on a one way avios booking

    • Dave says:

      7 Oct7 October 11:49

      I got 1k avios total for my 2 one-way bookings – one RFS and one revenue.

      Still not enough to compensate for what I would have received based on their BoB prices – tempted to take this to MCOL if I have to, although not sure what the County Court would think of a claim for £15… Only done MCOL for a claim of several hundred before.

      • mec says:

        7 Oct7 October 12:35

        I got 2k Avios, 1k for each of the bookings I had for Feb 2017 (one revenue, one RFS).

  • SteveB says:

    7 Oct7 October 11:38

    I’ve basically been sent a message in response to my complaint this morning that sings the praises of what BA have done, how good it will be, etc. and completely dismissed my reference to a change to the T&Cs at the point of booking and obviously no mention of any Avios compensation ex gratia or otherwise. I don’t want to cancel my booking but particularly irritated by their patronising tone.

  • ee says:

    7 Oct7 October 14:39

    4K Avios here – 1K per person per segment on what we had booked. Didn’t have to push for it, came after a single email.

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