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Would BA prioritise the downgrading of Amex 2-4-1 passengers?

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Long term readers of Head for Points will remember my trip home from the Middle East at Easter 2013.

Despite having four Club World tickets booked, we arrived at Dubai Airport to find that an aircraft swap meant that the aircraft had a smaller Club World cabin than expected.  Myself, my wife and my then-6-year-old daughter had been downgrade to World Traveller Plus.  My then-2-year-old son had been offloaded entirely, on his own.  That was an interesting morning ….. suffice it to say that we all got on the plane, in Club World, in the end.

British Airways BA 777X 777 9X

I bring this up because I’ve had a couple of emails recently where readers felt that British Airways had targeted them for a downgrade because they were travelling on Avios tickets.  In particular, one asked whether I thought BA would target holders of companion tickets issued with a BA Amex 2-4-1 voucher?

Why would they do this?  See below.

Would they actually do this in practice? You would like to think not.

Under Article 10 of the EC261 regulations, the compensation payable for a downgrade is:

  • Under 1,500km flight – 30% of ‘price paid’
  • All other intra-EU flights and long haul flights between 1,500 and 3,000 km – 50% of ‘price paid’
  • Long haul flights over 3,000 km – 75% of ‘price paid’

‘Price paid’ is not defined.  My understanding is that it was meant to be based on the return cost but most airlines choose to use the one way cost.  There is also no guidance in the regulations about how to handle a downgrade on one leg of a multi-leg flight or a downgrade by more than one cabin.  However, the general point is clear:

The refund is based on the price paid.  For Avios tickets, it is based on the Avios used.

In premium cabins (and you can’t be downgraded from economy) the cost of a cash ticket means that it is economically beneficial for BA to downgrade an Avios passenger ahead of a cash passenger.  The refund will be in Avios, not cash, and will not be huge.

A recent case sent to me by a reader is more complex. I have seen the post-trip correspondence from BA to the reader.

A couple were travelling together.  Club World was oversold by ONE person.  In this scenario, BA is meant to ask for volunteers to travel later or be downgraded in return for £.  Only after all passengers have refused are they meant to pick a passenger to be downgraded.

There were presumably plenty of solo passengers travelling on this flight who could have been downgraded or offloaded to minimise inconvenience.  Instead, BA picked a couple travelling on the same ticket.  One passenger was downgraded from Club World to World Traveller Plus, the other was not.

The couple were travelling on a British Airways American Express 2-4-1 voucher.  The downgraded passenger was the companion.

Now, of course, everyone has an unlucky day and at this point you can’t claim that there was a conspiracy to downgrade a 2-4-1 passenger.  Neither of these passengers had British Airways status so they would have been high up the list to be offloaded anyway.

However, when the passenger made a claim under EC261 they were told that no compensation was payable.  They had paid zero Avios for their companion ticket and 75% of zero was zero.

The passenger was given an ex-gratia gift card for £200 at the airport, but this is irrelevant under EC261.

I find it hard to believe that anyone at British Airways would prioritise 2-4-1 companion ticket holders for downgrades as – by definition – it means splitting up a couple.  Even if it is, economically, the logical thing to do if you were looking to maximise profitability.

These stories could just be bad luck – after all, HfP readers are more likely than not to be flying on Avios tickets.  It might just be chance that the person downgraded was the one on the companion ticket.  It might be that the flight was heavy on status passengers and they arrived at the airport later than most.

If you have any recent experiences of being downgraded on an Avios ticket, please let us know – especially if you think there were other people more ‘suitable’ than yourself.

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Category

British Airways and Avios

Comments (233)

This article is closed to new comments. Feel free to ask your question in the HfP forums.

  • BernardH says:
    18 Jan18 January 11:20

    We were downgraded on a CE redemption with AmEx companion voucher. This was following last minute cancellation of an earlier flight. After a runaround from BA, EC261 compensation for the cancellation was paid and Avios calculated for ONE passenger for the downgrade. I got the same ‘a percentage of nothing paid is nothing’ argument for the second ticket. I spoke to the CAA for its view (on my side) so I pursued BA via MCOL for the cost of buying the Avios and after more delay (saying claim would be defended) it folded and paid-up.

    As I wrote at the time on FlyerTalk, I believe there’s a definite policy to go for redemptions with companion vouchers first and then to give such a runaround on compensation that the claimant gives up.

  • mike says:
    18 Jan18 January 11:21

    Not 241 but I was targetted while on a GUF2, upgraded from CW to F. Broken seat in F and full F cabin, so I was offered either (a) downgrade for one of us to CW (b) downgrade for both of us to CW (c) one of us sits in a broken seat in F on a night flight.

    Both of us Gold, but BA didn’t seem to give a monkeys about that, they had decided we were the ones who were either getting downgraded or a crappy F experience.

    As it was not clear whether the downgrade was voluntary or involuntary, and the GUF2 added a further degree of uncertainty as to which cabin we were entitled to, so we decided not to risk the downgrade and then trying to claim EC261. 50k avios compo for the broken seat softened the blow slightly but still impressed quite how badly BA treat their best customers.

    • Leo says:
      18 Jan18 January 11:31

      I’m not being sarcastic when I ask this I promise, but as you say this was a quite complex situation. What would you have expected or wanted to have seen done in this situation?

      • mike says:
        18 Jan18 January 12:08

        Involuntary downgrade one of the single travellers in F, rather than try it on a couple travelling together? At least then they could claim EC261.

        The BA staff (this was an outstation) were also quite deliberately obtuse as to whether the various downgrade options offered to us were involuntary or voluntary, and therefore whether EC261 applied. In retrospect I should probably have taken the downgrade and argued later on EC261, it would have been a chunky sum.

        • mike says:
          18 Jan18 January 12:21

          …something I forgot in the original post, the downgrade offer came with something like $500 of travel vouchers. I seem to remember the same amount was offered whether one or both of us downgraded, which at the time made me think that the second downgrade (at least) would not have been involuntary. I was also confused at the time as to whether accepting a $ compo offer at the airport invalidated an EC261 claim. Reading up later, I don’t think it does?

          Oh, and it was our honeymoon!

          • Rob says:
            18 Jan18 January 12:42

            No it doesn’t invalidate EC261. You have 6 years to claim under 261 so you could still jump in.

          • Leo (not the one who asked a q on other thread) says:
            18 Jan18 January 16:31

            So downgrade someone else who wasn’t in a broken seat in F into J because you are in a broken seat?

          • mike says:
            18 Jan18 January 17:17

            …and get 75% of their flight cost back via EC261.

            I am sure there would have been some takers for that. Just not me/us on that particular occasion.

    • Cate says:
      18 Jan18 January 11:43

      The problem with leaning on your status is that airlines know they’ve already got your money.

  • twoclicks says:
    18 Jan18 January 11:25

    Apologies if already covered, but were the downgraded people gold card holders?

  • Hugo says:
    18 Jan18 January 11:29

    If this ever happened to me, I would be going to the tabloids…

  • anon says:
    18 Jan18 January 12:14

    Flew Gatwick-St Lucia. There was a change of aircraft and was downgraded from first on one leg. Was booked using 2-4-1. Was offered a £700 voucher per person. Accepted this and did not pursue EC261.

    • Rob says:
      18 Jan18 January 12:43

      You see, that is what I would consider acceptable for F to CW on Avios. £200 for CW to PE on a similar route is not acceptable.

  • julie says:
    18 Jan18 January 12:16

    I have booked return flights for my partner and me to go to Bermuda in November, using avios to fly out in First, and avios plus a LLoyds upgrade voucher to fly back in CW. This is the only way I can fly longhaul. I have to travel longhaul in a fully flat seat because I have a disability (M.E./CFS) which means I am unable to sit upright for that length of time (I need to rest frequently), and to be forced to do so due to being downgraded on the return journey would lead to a deterioration in my illness for weeks or even months. Although we are not travelling on a companion voucher, this news still concerns me greatly as we have previously had our ET seat reservations changed without prior notice or consultation despite paying to reserve seats in advance (the only compensation offered in that instance was a £18 x 2 refund for the seat reservations. I have only Blue status so cannot reserve CW seats in advance without paying £75 x 2, and it seems even that could be over-ridden by B.A. if they so wished.

    • Nicky says:
      18 Jan18 January 18:17

      I am also disabled and I make sure that BA are aware of this whenever I travel: it is printed on my tickets and I can reserve my seats without having to pay when I book. It means I cannot sit on the top deck in CW or have an exit seat but that is not a problem: As a disabled passenger you tend to get priority boarding as well. Get a doctors letter and then ring BA and let them know. Contrary to popular belief, you don’t have to be in a wheelchair to be disabled.

      • julie says:
        21 Jan21 January 15:35

        Thanks for this info, Nicky, I will look into that. Strange, though, how B.A. didn’t advise me about that when I rang them about my last flight to book Special Assistance through the airport, they just booked me the S.A. and told me I could book seats in advance via ‘manage my booking’ online! Thanks again.

    • Deb says:
      18 Jan18 January 19:09

      You don’t have to pay to reserve seats with BA if you are disabled. You and any one else on the booking can chose seats for free at time of booking. You need to call BA you can’t do this online, but never once have I been moved or had my seat changed or been charged for. You can also book wheelchair assistance at same time. But if you don’t tell BA you are disabled they won’t know will they.

      It’s all on the website.

      • Gordon Simpson says:
        18 Jan18 January 20:18

        Even if you do pay for seats, it means nothing to BA. I have paid for seats on THREE occasions and on TWO of those occasions, i was unceremoniously moved due to “operational reasons” – one of which was a gold card holder requesting the seat (people kept denying this buy i spoke to the guy!)

  • Tracey says:
    18 Jan18 January 12:17

    Not quite the same but I was on a avios points return flight from HK with Cathay Pacific (all booked through BA as a reward flight). I was in world traveller plus. Got to airport in HK and was told by check-in agent that as my flight was delayed into LGW, I couldn’t check my bag all the way through to EDI (my final destination). After much chat with 4 of her colleagues, she then booked me on a flight 4 hours later from LGW to EDI but I’d need to sort it with BA on other side as she couldn’t actually make the booking! After much complaining, I eventually just let it go as I was getting nowhere. Luckily I’m silver on BA so got into lounge where again I asked about my flight. Staff there said flight delay was normal due to curfew and would still land at original time. Thankfully they rebooked me on my original BA flight to EDI but as my bag was already checked to LGW, I’d still have to pick that up! When I arrived in LGW, I sprinted to get bag, take train to BA terminal and up to BA desk where I made bag check cut off by minutes!! Super stressful, not to mention sweaty!! I did speak to BA via phone all the way through the ordeal and there was no help! Only that I happened to be in lounge and asked did it get sorted! Never complained as in the end I got what I’d originally booked but annoying as hell!

  • Alex W says:
    18 Jan18 January 12:22

    If true this is a new low for BA!

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