What I learned at the Co-Brand Credit Card Conference yesterday

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• AK says:

  22 Feb22 February 09:52

  OT: no bits today so going to do it here.

  I’ve hit the 15k spend requirement on the gold charge card to get the additional 20k points. I’m also planning to upgrade to plat to receive the upgrade bonus and the bonus from the plat credit and supp cards. i’m also making a trip to HK in july and plan to make use of the card to visit the centurion lounge in HK. My gold card expires in May. Given that the bonuses market seems a bit uncertain at the moment, would you advise to immediately upgrade to plat and forsake my gold bonus or wait till I get the gold bonus in around June before upgrading?

  • Genghis says:

    22 Feb22 February 10:10

    Note that it’s a 10k bonus for spending £15k on PRG card.

    • AK says:

      22 Feb22 February 10:54

      Sorry I meant to type £10k. was probably thinking of the upgrwde bonus when I wrote that!

  • mark2 says:

    22 Feb22 February 10:24

    why not get the gold companion credit card for 5,000 MR while you are waiting (cancel before upgrading main card)

    • AK says:

      22 Feb22 February 10:55

      I’ve already got the gold companion credit card and have already received the £5k bonus for it. I’m just not sure what I should do in the meantime, whether it’d be safer to upgrade now or wait till my PRG ends and receive my 10k before upgrading

  • Jeremy says:

    22 Feb22 February 10:55

    Remember that if you upgrade to Platinum now to ensure you get the bonus, you’re paying a much higher fee. Amex Gold fee = Either £0 (if first year) or £140 pa. Amex Plat fee = £450 pa

    If you hold onto the Gold between now and when the 10k bonus kicks in (up to 60 days after you renew, though usually hits around days – let’s say late June for you), that’s 4 months of the Gold fee, which is either £0 or £46.67. You will then upgrade to Platinum in time for your July trip.

    If you upgrade to Platinum now, you are paying an extra 4 months of the Platinum fee instead of the Gold fee, so either £150, or £150 – £46.67 = £103.33.

    So on the one hand, you wait for an extra 10k MR points, pay £150 or £103 less in fees, but risk the 20k Platinum upgrade bonus disappearing. On the other hand, you upgrade now, definitely get the 20k upgrade bonus, definitely don’t get the 10k Gold spend bonus and pay £150 or £103 extra for your troubles.

    I have read on this forum about the Platinum Fee sometimes not being charged upfront. You also you might have other considerations like whether you want to make any referrals now for 18k from Platinum instead of 9k from Gold, or whether any of the other Platinum benefits will be of use before July. All depends on your circumstances.

    I personally would rather keep my money and take the risk on the upgrade points, I’m definitely getting my 10k Gold spend bonus regardless, so I’m only taking a risk missing out on 10k points compared to upgrading now (and losing the Gold spend bonus).

    • S says:

      22 Feb22 February 11:14

      If he upgrades now, chances are his Platinum fee will get charged upon gold anniversary and he’ll get 4 months of free Platinum. Depends on your luck, but it has happened to both me (got a free spin for 6-ish months) and my gal (1 month so far)

  • Leo says:

    22 Feb22 February 14:32

    I’ll leave the maths to the others – but just to say as I have before, last year I waited for the extra 15K Gold points and whilst waiting AMEX pulled the PLAT upgrade offer – only to then bring it back a few months later after I have cancelled the Gold. You pays your money etc….

• Lisa says:

  22 Feb22 February 10:27

  Apologise for being off topic.
  I rang British Airways executive club this morning to ask but I think it wasn’t quite understood what I was asking.
  If a holiday is booked and deposit paid with cc.
  Can the balance be paid when due with Avios?
  Tia

  • Genghis says:

    22 Feb22 February 10:28

    There is no part pay with avios on holiday bookings.

    • Lisa says:

      22 Feb22 February 10:31

      Oh my mistake then I thought I read you could

      • Anna says:

        22 Feb22 February 13:31

        I think there was at one time an option over on avios.com to do this as we used avios to part pay for flights and a hotel stay in Sydney about 8 years ago (it was before they added the taxes on when using avios for flights so it was a really good deal). I don’t know if either avios or ba.com do anything similar any more.

• Clive says:

  22 Feb22 February 10:44

  Presumably any change to how you can earn TPs (through a card for example) would have to be agreed by all Oneworld member airlines to stop any one member coming up with something which devalues the scheme for all? So it wouldn’t just come down to what BA thinks is a good idea?

  • Genghis says:

    22 Feb22 February 10:49

    Did oneworld approve S7 selling OWS status?

    • Clive says:

      22 Feb22 February 10:54

      What I thought would make sense might not be the way it actually works 🙂
      If this would lead to more people attaining status (and there wouldn’t be much point unless it did), I guess it comes down to how much fuller the lounges and queues can get before they’d have to inflate the number of TPs needed.

    • Doug M says:

      22 Feb22 February 11:23

      In terms of selling OW status via a credit card, if that increase the numbers using the lounges that would be a very bad thing. The T5 lounges at Heathrow are already a zoo much of the time, the last thing they need is more people.
      When I’m SH and sitting there as a result of status I feel blessed. When I’m LH business and there as a result of the ticket I feel angry at all those SH status types crowding my lounge.

      • Anna says:

        22 Feb22 February 13:36

        What about SH on a ticket, are those people ok? 🙂

      • Doug M says:

        22 Feb22 February 14:27

        Don’t confuse me. The basic point is I should get everything and everyone else doesn’t matter 🙂

      • Leo says:

        22 Feb22 February 14:37

        You need to read Rob’s comment further up – if you are putting say £60K on a credit card – and that’s how you get silver – you clearly don’t fly that often in the first place and therefore won’t make much of an impact.

      • john says:

        22 Feb22 February 14:46

        I doubt there would be an issue there as Cathay Pacific equivalent of BA Silver status used to come with Amex Platinum.

      • Mikeact says:

        22 Feb22 February 14:59

        I assume you calm down a bit when your sitting in the lounge on an Avios SH ticket ?

      • Mr Dee says:

        22 Feb22 February 21:06

        Anyone who is likely putting through 60k just for status would likely be going to the lounge one way or another anyway and yes they wouldn’t be flying that much either.

  • Doug M says:

    22 Feb22 February 15:42

    It was LCY on that recent occasion so not relevant. But I think the underlying point is felt by others from comments on FT. The GC BA lounges at LHR are crowded and not particularly nice. On an expensive long haul J ticket that’s not much of an offering. Any increase in numbers using these lounges can only make the experience worse.

    • Lady London says:

      22 Feb22 February 21:23

      You are right. I simply won’t use the British Airways lounges at Terminal 5 anymore even when I’m entitled to. However not many of the dining places are that good either. I suppose I’d use the BA lounges if my flight was very delayed, and it’s true I haven’t ever ventured to make a point of visiting T5B lounge which might improve my view of the BA lounges, that one is on my list.

  • Lyn says:

    22 Feb22 February 16:37

    Apparently Qantas are currently doing a very limited trial with credit card spend partially supplementing their version of tier points, status credits, to top up for status, but only up to something like the last 25%, so most of them are still earned flying (per AusBT).

    • Andrew S says:

      22 Feb22 February 17:38

      Air New Zealand already does this with Status Points on Credit Card spend.

      The highest earning SP card is an Amex co-branded Air NZ card with a reasonable $200 annual fee (around £110), an earn rate of $60 = 1 Air Point Dollar, which is worth $1 on any Air New Zealand flight booking.

      The SP earn is 1 SP for every $200 spent. Air New Zealand allows you to supplement your flight SP with you Credit Card SP up to 50% of the required SP for the various Silver/Gold/Gold Elite status.

      e.g. you require 450 SP to reach Silver Status in any 12 month period. So you can use 225 SP from Credit Card spend, BUT you need at least 225 SP earn from Air New Zealand operated or Star Alliance flights.

• Doug M says:

  22 Feb22 February 11:19

  I find myself confused in all this. Much anger at the imagined loss of the 2-4-1. Every time I’ve considered burning Avios for a redemption I’m drawn back to an Ex-EU or sale to earn TP and more Avios. Twice last year I flew to the USA from Manchester for £1000. Once earning for 360TP for Minneapolis, and the second time 540TP from a San Antonio routed via Phoenix on the way out. Paying £500 or £600 and 100,000ish Avios instead seemed a bad deal. True I was alone so the 2-4-1 wasn’t a factor, but it wouldn’t have changed things that much. I know some get great value out to South Africa or Australia, but with Ex-EU Qatar sales east, and the same with BA/AA west, the whole 2-4-1 and Avios seems not so great, certainly not for me a deciding factor in the BAPP card. I use my Avios on Europe SH where I find good value in them. Last weekend took some family to Berlin, cash fares £250, so I paid £175 and 45,000 Avios instead of £1250, that to me is value.
  I previously used my Lloyds voucher on a positioning flight to Stockholm for another Ex-EU, I don’t see that as a waste, many did, but I couldn’t see the value in an artificial trip for the purposes solely of maximising the number of Avios it saved, regardless of it being an unwanted destination.
  I think of credit cards mostly as churn for bonuses, because that’s where I see the benefit, less so in the vouchers they offer.
  I have no idea what point I’m trying to make.

  • Yuff says:

    22 Feb22 February 12:31

    The 241 has become much harder to use over the last few years if you don’t have flexibilty.
    When I first starting collecting avios in 2010 I primarily wanted flights to Dubai, in J. As a family of 4 travelling during school hols that was pretty difficult, then I discovered I could easily get 4 in F.
    That has become more difficult recently as BA don’t release as many seats to avios or more people are chasing them, not sure which.
    I’ve flown Qatar cash ex eu and Etihad miles, more than BA, recently mainly due to lack of availability on BA.
    I have been using SH a lot more recently and avios is very handy if booked ahead.
    If I had to pay cash for CE there is no way I would but using avios is very handy.

    • Anna says:

      22 Feb22 February 13:42

      I make it work really well as I am stuck with school holidays but our trips to the Caribbean can start and end in US cities which add an extra dimension to the holiday. This year we’re starting in Washington DC and ending in Boston so it feels like an adventure as well as a beach break, and no issues whatsoever using 2 4 1 plus Lloyds upgrade vouchers to get 3 CW seats in each direction.

  • Leo says:

    22 Feb22 February 14:42

    Not everyone is interested in Ex-EU flights. There are plenty of solid HfPointers who have partners who are not interested in flying to a foreign city first, collecting baggage and staying over night in a hotel before they get on their “real holiday flight “. Add into that then changing planes in Doha….Lot’s of people value a direct flight. This entire “hobby” is subjective in value.

    • Michael Jennings says:

      22 Feb22 February 16:44

      Well, yes. You pay a premium for a direct flight for a reason.

    • Yuff says:

      22 Feb22 February 20:32

      If the choice is economy direct or ex eu, in J, I’d choose ex eu every time 🙂

    • Talay says:

      24 Feb24 February 03:18

      Very true but don’t forget that some of us won’t fly in BA metal crammed in like sardines 8 abreast when we can fly in the ME3 at 4 abreast.

      I have given up on the 241 as a business class tool but I’m giving it another year to see if we can make value out of a first redemption or two. The difficulty is that we are a party of 3 and thus, we end up with less value from it than a couple would.

• New Card says:

  22 Feb22 February 11:23

  I might be missing something here but as someone who mostly flies BA using Avios redemptions in J/F I don’t see status as a particularly strong draw. Aren’t all of the significant benefits of Bronze/Silver included if you’re flying J/F anyway? So having status in that case only really helps if you also sometimes fly BA Economy…?

  • Doug M says:

    22 Feb22 February 11:39

    Seat selection need status I think. BA charge plenty for the good seats, upstairs on 747 for example.I think some seats are only for Gold, and can’t be bought by non-status at any price.

    • Optimus Prime says:

      22 Feb22 February 11:43

      Is BA the only airline charging for advanced seat selection on Business class? I’ve flown only Etihad besides them and they didn’t.

      • Doug M says:

        22 Feb22 February 11:45

        I don’t know, I don’t think many do. It’s a very good idea, behind the immediate anger, it means that status passengers, often booking late on high fares still have good seats to choose from. It’s discussed at length on FT, views as expected range from foaming at the mouth because they had to pay, to isn’t it wonderful I booked day before as a gold and still got 64K.

      • Rob says:

        22 Feb22 February 12:50

        Getting more common.

      • Mike L says:

        22 Feb22 February 14:31

        £100 per seat on the upper deck of the 380

    • New Card says:

      22 Feb22 February 11:53

      I see … not sure I personally would see seat selection as that much of a draw. (That may especially be the case as many of my flights are with a lap infant, so I can pre-select seats anyway). I appreciate my position is unique to my circumstances but I suspect my general point – that I’m not particularly fussed about status – might not be so unique

      • LB says:

        22 Feb22 February 13:33

        +1

      • Doug M says:

        22 Feb22 February 14:18

        Seat selection is much more important on BA because of variation. No climb over windows seats very desirable. Mid cabin climb overs sitting next to a stranger less so. On say AA or Finn all business class seats more equal, def not the case on BA. Hence seat selection becomes important.

      • Genghis says:

        22 Feb22 February 14:42

        Exactly Doug M. E.g. if flying solo on a 744 there’s a huge difference in quality between 64A (quieter cabin and direct aisle access) and say 13E (sitting side by side to a stranger and having to climb over others to get to the aisle)

    • mark says:

      22 Feb22 February 15:47

      I just recently buckled and paid for seat selection for our flight to Seoul, I know its a quiet flight and I know I’d probably get an ok seat but I was 3A and B so I just paid, stops me stressing for the next 7 months.

      • Doug M says:

        22 Feb22 February 15:56

        Any why not if you can afford it and it gives you peace of mind. I think it’s a mindset approach. Fare is £2K, pay and then get asked for £85 to choose a seat = outrage. Fare is £2085, fine, that’s OK. I think so long as you’re properly aware, then it’s just what it is.

  • Leo says:

    22 Feb22 February 14:49

    You have a point here. When I’m flying long haul/earning points rather than burning I don’t choose BA. I got to a situation where I was only flying BA economy in order to make the 4 qualifying flights – and hence I only “needed” the status for those flights – vicious circle. If you redeem avios in F you get to choose seats anyway – but yes otherwise the main benefit of chasing status is seat selection.

  • Mr Dee says:

    22 Feb22 February 21:09

    Yes I agree, if your flying J/F then having status isn’t such a perk at first glance but the seating selection can come in handy and the forcing of Avios seats for double Avios.

• sunguy says:

  22 Feb22 February 11:58

  Interesting idea about the BA TP accrual alongside spending, BUT, I have to say, a mere mortal trying to spend £60k on a credit card to attain silver, whats the point in that????

  As a reminder, LON EDI/GLA in economy is 5TP……so, for those of us that dont fly enough for work and do the odd trip flying back to Scotland for example. will never make any kind of status…bronze is pretty much a joke, it allows you to use a real person to check you in….thats pretty much about it (ooh and the pretty plastic cards to tie to your luggage)…

  I think your idea of a card that carries status is a good plan and one that IAG should be thinking about….but 60k spend (assuming BA doesnt change the goalposts and require more tier points for silver) is almost impossible.

  Lets say for example you do 5 return flights over the year to Edinburgh in economy – that will get you 50 TP leaving 550 to get for silver….this means having to spend £55,000 despite having 10 flights with BA.

  • Rob says:

    22 Feb22 February 12:50

    It needs to be high though. BA would not want to be issuing more than a couple of thousand Silvers via this route I reckon.

    • sunguy says:

      22 Feb22 February 13:19

      Rob,

      I completely agree, but, there needs to be some balance, something achievable by normal families – otherwise, its essentially a carrot on a string that will never be attainable.

      “After assessing the earnings of 21,563,000 people, the ONS revealed that the average UK salary is £27,271”

      So, this is over double the average UK salary. I personally earn a little over 3*average salary and would struggle to put 60k on a card every year – even if I could put my rent/mortgage on it!

      BA will not give out tier points for love or money, they have to be earned, so, I cannot see them doing promotions, etc on a card to “double tier points for a month” or something like that….but there has to be a middle room….so, maybe, as an example, instead of bronze status with the card, how about 300 tier points (or bronze status equiv in TP during the cards lifetime). This would not devalue the idea of 1p/TP, but a 30k hop would be more achievable and maybe rule out the TP bonus for members who are already gold but give them something different? (say a spend related 2-4-1 as is currently?).

      All pie in the sky ideas – but something to think about I believe?

      • sunguy says:

        22 Feb22 February 13:22

        …sorry – typo – 0.01p/TP!

      • Genghis says:

        22 Feb22 February 14:45

        All individuals would want the bar set to just below what they themselves can achieve.

      • sunguy says:

        22 Feb22 February 15:11

        Genghis,

        Not quite sure where you are going with that one – the 30k idea is way above what your average Joe in the UK can put on a creditcard….I could easily do it….but it is not about me(or you).

        Its about making the BA Exec club still re-assuringly expensive, but giving a real benefit with a real goal that can realistically be met by people not earning enough to take business/1st class on several occasions to build tier points or even those on a short term basis being based in an office rather than travelling….

        We are all talking hypothetically here, but, if BA did decide that in a revamp of the credit cards, they will offer status as a benefit, Im sure someone involved will look at forums such as this and have heard some of Robs ideas, etc, as to how to structure the benefits. They will want to put the bar as high as they think the market can take it – and then push up a little…and if they are seeing a proponent for passengers in the industry such as Rob suggesting a £60k trigger point, they might just take that as a good place to be.

        The problem with that level is that for all bar a few folks it is completely unachievable…it might as well be £1m trigger point. Also, the folks that could spend £60k on a credit card in a year, probably have enough money to travel business class anyway – and for the benefits, such as lounge access and baggage allowence already come with buying a ticket at that level – so, what therefore is the point in status?

        So, in summary, the level has to be set high enough to be expensive, but not so expensive that it means that the only people who could possibly benefit from it, wouldnt really gain from it anyway.

    • Marcw says:

      22 Feb22 February 17:55

      An alternative strategy is the one Iberia is executing; Visa card for 90€ a year, 0.5 Avios per 1€ spent + IbPlus Plata (=bronze) if spent more than 9k per year. It’s not attractive for high spenders, but the average Jose in Spain is convinced by it. Essentially, Iberia prefers to focus on the average Jose (bigger population mass) than high spenders, which will switch to Amex spending whenever possible.

      • Lady London says:

        22 Feb22 February 21:33

        And a very nice offer coming out this weekend for those Spanish residents that do have the Iberia visa card, half price award tickets on Iberia flights. For those Spanish card holders only.

• Chris L says:

  22 Feb22 February 12:03

  OT, but Mr Walsh and some other airline execs were giving evidence to the Transport Select Committee in parliament yesterday on Heathrow expansion if anyone is interested:
  http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/4f392d26-5fd5-4efc-a850-513545615345

  • Julian says:

    22 Feb22 February 13:21

    Good to see that the stupid business culture of expensive smart formal business suit and shirt but no tie has not yet taken hold over in Parliament.

    To me you either do proper suit and tie or if you don’t want to wear a tie then you might as well wear a smart casual jacket and non directly matching trousers but not a full blown suit. Of course I know that business ladies don’t wear ties but the fact is that non Scottish men also still do not wear skirts so its not unreasonable for them to wear ties as their only remaining gender specific piece of clobber.

    • Julian says:

      22 Feb22 February 13:28

      Oh yes and business men also definitely not allowed (by social convention) to do stilettos or other high heeled toe pinching footwear so why should they be being pressured in to giving up their ties???

    • RussellH says:

      22 Feb22 February 14:20

      To me, ‘posh business suit’ + ‘ if male, tie’ = Beware – this person is trying to put one over on you. Often, quite a useful signal. It has saved me many £100s over the years. Seriously.

      • Julian says:

        22 Feb22 February 16:04

        Sounds like you wouldn’t trust most MPs, Solicitors, Accountants or Estate Agents then……..

      • Michael Jennings says:

        22 Feb22 February 16:47

        That seems fair to me.

• Rob says:

  22 Feb22 February 12:53

  NDA

  • Will says:

    23 Feb23 February 01:48

    That’s 3 words 🙂

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