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The (leaked) new Avios partner flight pricing looks OK if true …. so why is BA keeping shtum?

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British Airways, as we covered yesterday, has announced increases in Avios pricing for flights on partner airlines.  This is basically all airlines except BA, Iberia, Aer Lingus and Vueling.

Our main article on the Avios partner changes is here.

The official ba.com announcement is here.

As we pointed out, British Airways has deliberately kept the price increases secret.  All we have been told is that we need to book by 30th May or we will be paying a ‘different’ amount – it won’t even admit to increasing the prices.

As a PR exercise, this is a pretty low move.  As you would expect, the internet decided that things were going to be very bad indeed.

And yet …

Apparently it turns out that, if you ring British Airways to make a telephone booking for a flight after 30th May, the call centre agents can see the new pricing on their screen – although the booking goes through at the old price.

Based on reports I have pulled together from elsewhere – I think Seat 31B had it first – this is what is happening:

Distance flown:  Economy one-way / PE one-way / Business one-way / First one-way

0 – 650 miles:  WAS: 4500 Avios / 6750 Avios / 9000 Avios / 18000 Avios

0- 650 miles:  WILL BE: 6000 Avios / 9000 Avios / 12000 Avios / 24000 Avios

651 – 1,150 miles:  WAS: 7500 Avios / 11250 Avios / 15000 Avios / 30000 Avios

651 – 1,150 miles:  WILL BE: 9000 Avios / 13500 Avios / 18000 Avios / 36000 Avios

1,151 – 2,000 miles:  WAS: 10000 Avios / 15000 Avios / 20000 Avios / 40000 Avios

1,151 – 2,000 miles:  WILL BE: 11000 Avios / 16500 Avios / 22000 Avios / 44000 Avios

2,001 – 3,000 miles:  WAS: 12500 Avios / 25000 Avios / 37500 Avios / 50000 Avios

2,001 – 3,000 miles:  WILL BE: 13000 Avios / 26000 Avios / 39000 Avios / 52000 Avios

Note that the leaked numbers only reflected Economy pricing and we are assuming that the Business / First multiplier remains the same.

The change here is modest, especially at the higher levels.  I mean …. going from 50000 Avios to 52000 Avios for a 3,000 mile First Class flight is not exactly a huge increase.

Even at the lower levels, going from 4500 Avios to 6000 Avios for a short hop on a partner airline is not a massive devaluation in absolute terms.  The jump from 18000 to 24000 Avios for a sub-650 mile flight in First Class is obviously tough, but realistically who books one of those?

It is possible, although we need to wait for the small print, that short-hop flights in the USA will actually become cheaper.  Could the rule of charging at least 7,500 Avios per sector for US domestic flights, however short, be removed?

There has been no word to Iberia Plus members of any increase in Avios pricing.  This doesn’t mean anything, however, as Iberia has different pricing and mileage bands for partner redemptions.  Airline partner redemptions booked via Iberia Plus are also non-refundable, so I don’t recommend booking them.

BA Avios changes to partner flights

So …. what was BA playing at on Monday?  Assuming that the numbers above are true – and this has yet to be confirmed, I did ask BA but they had not replied by last night – it scored a PR own goal by not revealing the numbers.

If the email had been worded differently – “we are making some modest increases, some as low as 4%, to our partner redemption prices to reflect the increased cost to us of funding these flights” – then everyone would have been fine about it.

The BA PR machine has been working a lot better lately, especially with the success of the four retro liveries and the sensibly low key (given the roll-out timetable) Club Suite announcement.  The 100th anniversary TV ad has grown on me too.  This bodged announcement just seems like one step backwards, assuming the numbers above are true.

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Category

British Airways and Avios

Comments (147)

This article is closed to new comments. Feel free to ask your question in the HfP forums.

  • Julian says:
    1 May1 May 12:23

    I think Rob should have run with “Beat The Avios Partner Airline Points Cost Rise” rather than appearing to endorse the proposed Avios price hikes as being ok and as effectively a “normal cost of doing business”.

    • Rob says:
      1 May1 May 12:50

      But how many readers are desperate to book very short distance partner redemptions? Not many.

      • Lady London says:
        1 May1 May 13:33

        Only the clever ones, Rob.
        And in not so long I am sure BA will be along to charge the same for their own seats.

        On my route which is one of the short ones this could be a devaluation of up to 50% 4000 to 6000 miles is a 50% increase. 4500 to 6000, the medium-likely option, is still a 33% loss in value of my miles. It calculates that i would now have to pay 33% more than before.

        No way is BA going to reduce domestic USA cost. This is intended to expand the hit on the domestic USA minimum mileage required (something like a +50% increase in cost BA made on US domestic redemptions about 2-3 years aga IIRc)…This is to expand exactly the same take by British Airways to every other internal flight within some ohter region or country that BA doesn’t fly. Bye bye the only decent option except RFS.

        Remember BA is only paying any other airline you use avios with, for your avios ticket or for any other flight witin your itinerary that is on another airline, some of kind interline fee only for your seat. There is no correspondence between an interline price and the charge as charged under avios or for a cash ticket, the interline price is TINY. This is why when your plane is late, BA wants to keep you first on its own flight the following day, and not book you on a partner airline. There is a small difference. What BA really does NOT want you to do, is travel on another airline outside of Oneworld, or not in any alliance, if that other airline can get you there much faster (and which you have a right to request if covered by EU261 conditions). Because if they don’t have an interline agreement or some other kind of agreement with that other airline, this will really cost BA much more cash.

        But coming back to avios bookings, it will be a more or less interline-type price that BA actually charges and it’s fractional even compared to BA;s own charges to you. It will lump those charges under “taxes and charges”. But the great majority of the charges on an avious ticket, even those informally called tax are in fact going into Brtitish Alrways’s pocket even allowing for the interline-fee type cost of the ticket.

        As an ex travel agent RussellH will know much more about this stuff and may be able to correct me/throw more light.

        • xcalx says:
          1 May1 May 13:43

          I had never heard of interline tickets until on a cruise last year when I had a long chat with a semi retired US travel agent. I thought she was pulling my leg when she told me how little she paid to spend 8 months of the year flying and cruising around the world. A real eye opener.

        • RussellH says:
          1 May1 May 17:00

          Sorry, I was a Tour Operator, not a travel agent. And I gave up having anything to do with air travel (because of the special rules applying to Air Inclusive Tours that only apply in the UK) around 15 years ago, so I am totally out of touch. I do still see the trade press, but that does not deal much with air travel these days – no commission to be earned!

          I was pretty knowledgeable about European Rail travel, but things there will have changed over the last six years too and I would no longer consider myself to be something of an expert.

        • Russ says:
          1 May1 May 18:41

          Lady London are you suggesting BA could block their own brand economy short haul award seats and only offer business seats, or, they rebrand business class seats as F as QR does on it’s short haul flights?

      • Marcw says:
        1 May1 May 16:00

        But aren’t short segments (1-3\4) the golden pot of the program? BAEC is not really a thing for long flights, especially if you need connections….

        • Rob says:
          1 May1 May 16:15

          But where to?

          Short haul flights in Asia are exceptionally cheap for cash if you’re prepared to use AirAsia etc. There IS some value in Australia, I accept, but by definition domestic flights in Oz cover huge distances and won’t be under 650 miles so you are at lower end of increases. In the US BA has already got the cap in place so you pay a minimum of 7,500 Avios irrespective of distance.

          We did HKG-TYO and TYO-PEK a couple of years ago on JAL, but even that is a fairly long flight which wouldn’t increase much under this structure.

        • BJ says:
          1 May1 May 19:14

          In Asia it is still a tough call because the value from avios, even on short routes, is very good. You have to remember that business redemptions generally come with fast track at mostly very busy airports, access to lounges that are generally well above average when compared to the rest of the world, wide body jets with decent regional seats or full flat intercontiental seats, and commonly full food and beverage service. So compared to short flights in Europe or North Anerica we are getting much more value for our avios. Against this value, the reason I usually pass in favour of Air Asia is not so much because of the price but because Air Asia on time performance IME is superb, and the frequency of services is more akin to bus schedules than flight schedules. Access to lounges via Priority Pass or other means could swing it for many people too I guess. Food and beverages are not really a factor because if you want them they are fine and at reasonable prices on Air Asia. Likewise priority boarding and a seat at the front of the plane comes at reasonable cost, as do fully flexible tickets with the luggage, meals, seats and oriority included.

        • Lyn says:
          1 May1 May 19:40

          Several of the most popular routes between large cities in Australia, like Sydney and Melbourne or Canberra or Brisbane, are well within 650 miles.

  • BJ says:
    1 May1 May 12:38

    Why all this waffle about meal deals when the story of the day is clearly adulteration of Percy Pig?

    • Julian says:
      1 May1 May 12:40

      Never been a Percy Pig buyer myself although have always notice an awful lot of them on display at M&S……………….

    • RussellH says:
      1 May1 May 17:01

      Is Percy Peppa’s brother?

  • 1DES1 says:
    1 May1 May 12:43

    O/T but no bits today – accommodation recommendations for Lake Garda please. Trip for a couple on a “babymoon” – Monday 1st July – Sunday 7th July (6 nights). Already have CE return tickets sorted into Venice Airport.

    Will also stay in Venice for a couple of nights before heading to Garda, anyone stayed at the HIlton Molino Stucky in Venice before? It’s not cheap (€400 euro per night) but has roof top pool. Not sure if it is worth spending more for one of the private islands considering it is not that much more of jump.

    Many thanks in advance.

    • LB says:
      1 May1 May 12:53

      I stayed at the Hilton last year and got a very nice upgrade as a diamond member. The downsides however were a very average “club lounge”area and the hotel being full of obnoxious Americans…The shuttle service is regular and the area is nice and quiet, away from the bustle.

      • 1DES1 says:
        1 May1 May 14:20

        Thanks LB, good to know. Did you book into one of the refurbished rooms? They look much nicer. Am Hononrs Gold due to AMEX Platinum.

        • LB says:
          1 May1 May 19:21

          If I remember correctly I booked a Front water view room and got upgraded to a massive suite with kitchen facilities. It was very “industrial chic” with a nod to the buildings previous use as a flour factory.

    • Julian says:
      1 May1 May 13:05

      Is a babymoon another American Import like a baby shower or a teenager’s first Prom? Not to mention of course Father’s Day, although that never really caught on in our family.

      • Julian says:
        1 May1 May 13:09

        A dictionary entry seems to be:-

        “a relaxing or romantic holiday taken by parents-to-be before their baby is born.”

        Now that I understand it happens before the birth (when rose tinted spectacles are still being worn) it makes slightly more sense to me. Although of course can’t be too near the birth in the case of air travel.

        A case of the lull before the storm I would tend to suggest.

        • 1DES1 says:
          1 May1 May 14:20

          Ha thanks Julian, yes that is the exact definition! Any recommendations on Lake Grada?

    • TokyoFan says:
      1 May1 May 13:15

      *Don’t* stay at the Splendid Palace. It’s neither of those things, though Limone is of course stunning. The (incredible) view from the balconies isn’t worth the terrible bathrooms/decor/breakfast.

    • The Savage Squirrel says:
      1 May1 May 18:21

      How are you travelling from Venice? If by train then staying in or near Desenzano is the easiest option. With a car other possibilities open up. For something special, Villa Cortine in Sirmione is certainly spectacularly located and beautiful although many years ago so can’t comment on current levels of service.

    • Tracy says:
      1 May1 May 19:54

      I stayed in March 2018. I got a really good rate about €125 per night. As above, lounge was average but free is free. My room was a bit tatty round the edges but was massive and had a river view. At the start of the trip, taking the boat to the mainland was fun but it got old very fast. Especially one night spent in an Irish pub where we lost track of time and missed the last Hilton boat and very nearly missed the last public boat too lol. I would book again at that price but if it was much higher I would probably look elsewhere….

  • Cristian Rivera agudelo says:
    1 May1 May 14:06

    Forgot to mention that this is on BA no partner. Is this mean that BA have rise there avios chart as well ?

    • Lady London says:
      1 May1 May 14:15

      On 30th May, Cristian, though they won’t say by how much prices will rise. Actually British Airways said prices will “Change”. The cynical / experienced amongst us have immediately interpreted that this can only mean prices will “Rise”.

  • BJ says:
    1 May1 May 14:11

    O/T sorry: Is the £75 back on £250 amex Hilton offer still working ok for online reservations for stays after the deadline when hotels charge advance purchase rates?

    • Lady London says:
      1 May1 May 14:16

      If within date to book it will generally still work however I’ve seen some posters advise you not just to book, but to phone the hotel and ensure they take the money for the reservation immediately. Some hotels are apparently still leaving it to a few days before your arrival (i.e. out of time) before they charge the prepaid amount you agreed to.

      • 1DES1 says:
        1 May1 May 14:29

        How do AMEX know it is a Hilton on the list of participating locations?

        • Rob says:
          1 May1 May 14:59

          Amex will have a list of merchant ID codes it checks against. Pre-paid rates are processed by the hotel, not by Hilton centrally, so it is easy to pick up.

    • Rob says:
      1 May1 May 15:01

      Yes, but you may need to ring the hotel to make them charge your card as sometimes ‘as a favour’ they don’t actually bother until the day. It is more work for the hotel after all.

      • BJ says:
        1 May1 May 15:56

        Thanks Rob/LadyLondon. I’ll book tonight and if nothing pending by Friday Pm I’ll give hotel a call to charge it.

  • Shoestring says:
    1 May1 May 15:04

    er…re the AMEX25OFF

    I just set up a completely new Amazon a/c and it let me use the £25 off code

    • Shoestring says:
      1 May1 May 15:07

      try 2 bottles of the following (exactly £40)
      Auchentoshan American Oak Single Malt Scotch Whisky, 70 cl

      • Shoestring says:
        1 May1 May 15:49

        Damn cat has some uses – just ordered me another couple of bottles of single malt

      • David says:
        1 May1 May 15:56

        That works for me! Although unfortunately I hate whisky, so would still be a waste of £25…

        • Shoestring says:
          1 May1 May 16:02

          Mine are for presents, I stopped drinking spirits a long while ago, honourable exceptions being made for planes & lounges 🙂

        • xcalx says:
          1 May1 May 17:31

          Tassimo coffee pods?

      • Simon says:
        2 May2 May 11:17

        thanks, my cat bought one of those and a £20 bottle of gin. She’ll be falling off the fences. Loophole now closed I think.

  • Harry Targett says:
    1 May1 May 15:33

    O/T
    Flying from Bangkok Suvarnabhumi airport tomorrow morning to Rome (FCO) via Doha. I’ve just received my first Priority Pass with Platinum Amex. Can anyone recommend me the best lounges at Bangkok, Doha and Rome, based on their experience?

    Any help gratefully received – I’m a relative beginner still.

    • BJ says:
      1 May1 May 15:51

      If you are flying business just keep it simple and use Qatar lounges. If economy and you need to use Priority Pass then either the new Turkish, the Oman Air lounge or one of the Miracle lounges at BKK. Don’t know about PP lounges at the other two airports sorry.

      • Harry says:
        1 May1 May 19:02

        Sadly in economy. Will check out the lounges you recommended, thank you.

        • Shoestring says:
          1 May1 May 19:08

          Don’t forget with Priority Pass you can try several lounges in the same airport

        • BJ says:
          1 May1 May 19:27

          Yes, get there early and try them all. Oman Air for peace and quiet. Sonetimes some very decent Thai food in Miracle lounges. Turkish is new and I have not tried it yet.

    • Andrew says:
      1 May1 May 18:19

      The QR lounge at BKK is outstanding – felt like I was at the royal suite, such attentive service including walking me out the door, carrying my bag as I left. Just don’t wear shorts as they do have a dress code. Also only open to J and F (do they still operate A380 to BKK?) not to economy with status.

      • Russ says:
        1 May1 May 18:44

        Nope, we’ve got it on the Frankfurt run 🙂

      • BJ says:
        1 May1 May 19:34

        Interesting, I guess things have settled as it was not well reviewed in the early days so I ignored it in favour of CX.. Can we access it when travelling J or F on any OW carrier or is it restricted to QR only?

  • Shoestring says:
    1 May1 May 17:25

    O/T £10 worth of Tesco Clubcard vouchers will become £20 when used at Tesco Mobile

    • xcalx says:
      1 May1 May 17:36

      That’s strange last week one Tesco guy at the phone shop pointed out that Tesco vouchers could not be used for rocket packs. Another guy had no problem selling me 16 in sets of 2 over 2 visits. Them Christmas savers came in handy after all

      • Shoestring says:
        1 May1 May 17:39

        This would just be for call billing so you didn’t lose out

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