The inside story on the BALPA / British Airways pay negotiations

This article is closed to new comments. Feel free to ask your question in the HfP forums.

• Lee says:

  8 Aug8 August 07:27

  They earn up to £170,000 a year.

  In July, BA offered pilots a pay increase worth 11.5 percent over three years, which was accepted by Unite and GMB but rejected by Balpa.

  Sounds like they are simply being greedy.

  • Mike says:

    8 Aug8 August 12:40

    I agree – wages are based on supply and demand.

• Simon says:

  8 Aug8 August 07:36

  Slightly O/T but caught up in the BA IT glitch yesterday and flight to Dublin was 3hrs. 15 mins late landing. Never claimed compensation before but looks simple enough on the BA web site.

  Basic question – a family of five get the set €250 each under EU261?

  Anyone had experience of claiming with BA and is it straight forward?

  TIA

  • Anna says:

    8 Aug8 August 07:59

    It seems to depend on circumstances, I know of people who have been paid out straight away for delays however there are those like me & my OH who had to take BA to CEDR to get them to agree to pay up. Start by emailing CS setting out your circumstances, the reason for the delay, and the desired outcome (EU261 compo) and see what the response is.

    • Optimus Prime says:

      8 Aug8 August 08:03

      I don’t think they can delay it to CEDR this time… unless they suggest it was an act of God 😀

  • Simon says:

    8 Aug8 August 08:15

    Thank you

  • AJA says:

    8 Aug8 August 08:32

    Simon, it is as straightforward as you think, using the form on the BA website. And yes it is per passenger.

    I’ve done it once for myself, was paid out in under 2 weeks. I’ve also helped a neighbour and completed the form for them, they were paid out in about 3 weeks.

    • Simon says:

      8 Aug8 August 09:04

      Thanks. I was surprised that BA didn’t voluntarily offer up the info. Or maybe I shouldn’t be!

      • Lyn says:

        8 Aug8 August 10:09

        Don’t be surprised. BA seem to hope nobody will claim and my guess is that a high percentage of passengers don’t.

        Our case was a clear cut technical problem and ground customer service staff after we got off the plane were deliberately evasive. The second cabin crew after we reboarded were pro-actively really helpful though.

      • AJA says:

        8 Aug8 August 10:19

        Simon as Lyn says you shouldn’t be surprised. I agree BA should be clearer about informing you about your rights. I am also sceptical of the numbers who do claim. I am sure few passengers do claim.

        That said as a reader of this website you are better informed than most.

        If you need any more help with the claim do ask here. I and many others will happily assist.

        • Bagoly says:

          8 Aug8 August 12:51

          “should” is putting it mildly – the obligation to do so is a core part of EU261 itself.

• Robert says:

  8 Aug8 August 07:36

  What is RPI?

  • Simon says:

    8 Aug8 August 07:52

    Retail price index. One measure of inflation.

    • Robert says:

      8 Aug8 August 08:11

      Thanks Simon.

      I wonder if the cost of new aircraft needs to be taken into consideration also, regarding the pay situation. BA might be putting most of its profits into updating the fleet.

      • AJA says:

        8 Aug8 August 10:32

        Running an airline is complex and there are many competing demands for cash, including aircraft renewal,

        As Ghengis points out above remember profits do not equal cash. But also remember that the headline profit figures published by IAG are not just from BA, there is also IB, Vueling, Aer Lingus even if BA contributes more than the others. Ultimately any increase in salaries has to be paid somehow and that is achieved by either controlling costs or increasing revenue or a combination of the two. Ultimately we passengers will pay the price, be it increased airfares or cuts in service on board.

      • Lady London says:

        8 Aug8 August 12:49

        Well apparently BA has just paid an extra bonus out to shareholders and also just done a £500 million share buyback……Thèse things are normally only able to be done where there is spare money available. And yet BA is pleading poverty?

        I understand BA doesnt want to make commitments to pay pilots more that could be unsustainable in the future, but if part of their negotiations is that they’re saying BA is short of money then BA needs a better negotiator.

        • AJA says:

          9 Aug9 August 09:04

          IAG, not BA, has done the share buy back and it was €500m not £500m. IAG also did the same thing the previous year. The special dividend was about €700m. BA’s share of this is roughly just over half the total.

          Also we don’t know why the share buy backs happened but they are probably related to IAG complying with the EU rule that non-eu shareholders can only own 47% of EU airlines in preparation for Brexit.

          The figures are still substantial but not that much as a percentage of IAG’s €300 billion profit before taxes.

          We also only have this article’s evidence that BA is claiming poverty. We don’t really know if that is true but it wouldn’t surprise me if they are saying that.

• Mr B says:

  8 Aug8 August 07:39

  This website has truly turned into the Daily Mirror of travel websites…. all sensationalist hearsay and gossip. Rob has been peddling this strike for 9 months now. Calm the anti BA rhetoric and concentrate on points and deals which your website should be known for.

  • Rob says:

    8 Aug8 August 08:16

    The content is 100% accurate and has been double-checked with another reader who is a BA pilot.

    • Paul Hickey says:

      8 Aug8 August 08:30

      It’s pretty simple isn’t it. If you do t like it don’t read it.

    • Mr B says:

      8 Aug8 August 08:47

      Rob…. I am 100% sure you know a BA pilot, as I’m sure many others readers do. However, as stated you have been peddling this ‘strike’ since December last year as it fits in very well with your constant anti-BA rhetoric. The strike is still yet to happen. In fact (and let’s keep to the facts) no dates have been announced since last Dec and until they are announced this is just the constant scaremongering we have come to expect from this site.

      • BA manager spotter says:

        8 Aug8 August 09:28

        Seems to be like you are BA manager

        You should be ashamed.

      • Andrew says:

        8 Aug8 August 09:44

        IIRC, the reporting back in December talked about the three(?) main unions at BA – representing flight, cabin and ground crew – having joined forces to submit a joint pay claim.

        When unions do this, it’s about joining forces and it makes the chances of industrial relations taking a dip a bit higher, although – as we have seen – many, many months pass between a pay claim being submitted, rejected etc and a ballot and subsequent call for industrial action. The reporting in late 2018 merely stated the facts and logical predictions.

        One could argue, of course, that the fact BA have reached agreement with two of the three unions shows they can generally handle these negotiations skilfully. What would happen to BA’s relationship with Unite (and GMB?) if they give more to pilots/Balpa is anyone’s guess of course…

      • Ian says:

        8 Aug8 August 10:10

        Idotic comments, undeserving of a response.

  • John says:

    8 Aug8 August 08:31

    The article is clearly titled. If you don’t want to read about it why did you? Rob is only reporting a story which is relevant to many of us due to fly BA soon.

  • Jon says:

    8 Aug8 August 08:53

    Maybe if you’re not happy with the content, you could try to get a refund of the monthly subscription you pay to access the site. 😉

    • KP says:

      8 Aug8 August 09:33

      As soon as someone provides negative feedback, you get people talking about subscription fees. Let’s be honest, Rob isn’t doing this out of charity -it’s a business and all sorts of criticisms should be allowed

      • Jon says:

        8 Aug8 August 10:11

        Haha of course it’s allowed. 🙂 Just commenting that maybe there are more productive uses of energy than getting one’s knickers in a twist over content you don’t like on a free website.

        Negative feedback on his negative feedback, if you will.

        • KP says:

          8 Aug8 August 12:43

          Fair enough

  • RIccatti says:

    8 Aug8 August 10:06

    Mr B, you’re living in the cloud and outsourced some of your brain functions..

    With debacles in front of us, another major IT blunder third in the row for the last two years, there is no need to instigate a negative discussion.

    Such issues as cleanliness of planes, useless back and forth with “customer services” (call centre workers in India who have zero decision-making powers and low training) come up regularly — you can’t outsource the quality of the product and it does not appear by itself “if everyone just do their jobs”.

    • Lady London says:

      8 Aug8 August 11:51

      +1 Riccatti

  • TM says:

    8 Aug8 August 10:22

    Is that you Alex Cruz?

• Paul says:

  8 Aug8 August 07:41

  I think BA might cave in as they simply cannot have further disruption as seen yesterday.

  The only strength BA has is its dominance at LHR. This may let them conclude that they can take the pain of further disruption and bad publicity that a strike will bring but longer term they won’t lose customers.

  As for BA pilots. They are clearly highly skilled but too many of their number has an over active sense of entitlement.

• Xey says:

  8 Aug8 August 08:01

  Its time striking over pay was made illegal. Strike over conditions.. fine, but pay, no. Every year the unions strike in the busy season, if they dont like what theyre getting.. leave. Like what everyone in a job that doesnt have the ability to basically force the employer to increase pay has to do. Its disgusting.

  • Oh! Matron! says:

    8 Aug8 August 08:15

    I agree. Especially to pseudo public utilities, such as planes, trains, buses, etc. Anything where a strike would affect the public directly.

    • Yorkieflyer says:

      8 Aug8 August 09:16

      Withdrawing your labour is thankfully still a right in this country, even if it is highly restricted by law. If you’d rather not live in a country with reasonable human rights perhaps you ought to move elsewhere?

    • RussellH says:

      8 Aug8 August 10:22

      It is very easy to argue that those working in public service should not be able to strike. I even have some sympathy with that view, BUT, were that to be instituted, there MUST be some alternative way of ensuring that the employer does not take advantage.
      The sort of thing that migght work would be a package that had legal guarantees of better than average annual pay increases – eg RPI+, not CPI+ – legal guarantees on pensions + working conditions, legal guarantees of no redundancies – all that as an absolute minimum.
      I doubt that any private sector employer would accept any of that, so we are where we are.
      Anyone have any better idea.
      Just withdrawing the right to strike from a whole swathe of workers is not an option.

      • Nick Burch says:

        9 Aug9 August 00:42

        IIRC, some Australian transport unions have a policy where, when on strike, everyone travels for free. This means no-one travelling is inconvenienced (if anything they do well from it!), it’s only the transport company that suffers

        Not sure how the BA Pilots could do something equivalent though…

  • Tax Mug says:

    8 Aug8 August 09:38

    James – perhaps you ought to start a “not for profit” transport conglomerate – but no sucking on The State’s teat.

    • Steve says:

      8 Aug8 August 10:45

      We don’t need to go to extremes. Let’s be honest, extreme socialism is not good but this extreme capitalism is not good neither. Making gazillion profits but not sharing it more with employees is not right. You don’t need to give everything away but a little bit less greed would help society for sure.

  • ben says:

    8 Aug8 August 10:19

    I couldn’t agree more! And I am baffled at why anyone has any sympathy for the pilots…
    As much as most people cannot ‘force’ their employer to increase their wage pack, so should pilots not be able to ‘use the public’ as a stick to threaten their employer, it’s a simple case of blackmail and should be made illegal

  • Lady London says:

    8 Aug8 August 11:59

    That sounds like ‘let them eat cake’. Many, many workers in the UK have very few tools at their disposal to raise themselves out of the poverty pits the owners of capital would leave them at the bottom of. I agree that’s market economics and natural human behaviour. But in a civilised society there has to be something that limits the extent of both ends of this.

  • Mike says:

    8 Aug8 August 12:44

    Don’t expect to get paid more – just because you want to get paid more.

• Andy S says:

  8 Aug8 August 08:01

  Rob is just reporting the facts of the strike.

  • Dan says:

    8 Aug8 August 08:12

    How is any of the above fact?! Rob has been clear that the above is based on a conversation with a pilot he knows which, whilst probably all true, isn’t quite the same as saying these are facts which have been confirmed by all parties. I could equally have a chat with someone I know at BA HQ and present a different version of events – which would be equally valid to the above.

    • Chris says:

      8 Aug8 August 09:20

      When have BA ever given you the clear facts or truth about anything?!? Cancelled your flight? It’s force majeur… lost your baggage? It’s the weather… ruined your honeymoon? It was an unknown contractor who turned the power off… late for your meeting? It was an anonomoly with the (ancient) IT systems (that they sold off to subcontractors and made 1000s redundant)

      I read the BA accounts, it would cost BA 0.2% ebitda to fund the BALPA proposal. To add to this, the cost of the court fees alone last week would have paid for all of the females to have maternity pay (yep, females don’t get maternity pay!).

    • Lady London says:

      8 Aug8 August 12:19

      Good idea Dan. Is there anyone on here that can get the BA point of view from someone for us?

      I remember when the firemen went on strike on behalf of the nurses in the UK, because nurses were not allowed to strike. I view this struggle as similar. In that you have a relatively well-off section of workers that is not on the poverty line able to challenge an employer that is naturally doing what capitalists do – I.e. making workers participate in all bad news but not sharing the good news when it’s there.

      Based on what Rob is reporting, British Airways is not giving the pilots anything that would stop pilots getting the full hit of bad times for the airline in future, but with no recompense in good times for extra effort or concessions made by thé workers. If this is how British Airways is treating pilots then imagine how much worse they will be treating lower level workers such as cabin crew without good legacy contracts.

      And why does IAG not want to get involved claiming they are leaving it to BA? of course IAG will be extremely keen to limit the outcome of the strike. But they don’t dare step in openly because they don’t want Iberia and Vueling workers to rise up as well and claim more from IAG.

• Nick says:

  8 Aug8 August 08:12

  So two things… first, the photo of pilots landing is not BA. You might not care, and fair enough if you don’t, but accuracy is important so it should be marked ‘stock photo’ 🙂
  Second, a real journalistic site would also show the ‘opposite’ view – presumably you’ve also interviewed someone on the BA side and this is coming later/tomorrow?

  There’s more to this than you’ve shown. For example, crew pay rises have for decades been linked to productivity improvements which offset some of the costs (to give you an idea, they’ve accepted things like changed meals before, even bedding rules, to save BA a bit of money). The new team at BALPA (put in hurriedly, let’s remember, because the old one had to leave in disgrace) point blank refuses to work with this, which means increased pay costs BA more than any other year. In any big company it’s hard to find a lot of spare cash, particularly if they’ve got new aircraft they’ve committed to buying with it; this is making it harder. Similarly the IAG thing – the new BALPA team hasn’t taken any time at all to study how the group works and how the airlines are managed. First rule of war… know your enemy. Their ignorance is massive, and slows progress in their discussions. They need to structure their demands into something BA can work with, not just rant about an ownership structure that is well outside their control.

  • NigelthePensioner says:

    8 Aug8 August 08:52

    There we are – the BA side of it!!
    1) Profit sharing is all very well but I never hear about the scenario of loss sharing by the staff side in the event of a “loss” with a consequent reduction in annual pay.
    2) Of course BA don’t have a totally free hand to run itself as it likes – what would be the point of IAG (other than to give Walsh a job for life) in that event. It is clear that the puppet (sic) Cruz is operated by Walsh as the former seems to be unable to speak coherently on future issues and projects at BA and Walsh is now too far from the front line and officially too detached from day to day operational issues to speak out. He’s run himself into a corner and is probably seething with his ineffectual front man.
    It’s really only the uniformed staff that keep us coming back to BA and that was nearly jeopardised by the ineffectual and insolent attitude of the very young girl at the “greeting desk” of the T3 first lounge Friday week ago!
    Here endeth……

    • James says:

      8 Aug8 August 09:13

      Erm, pretty sure the staff took a big cut in pay and conditions when BA was on its arse back in the 2000s

      • Doug M says:

        8 Aug8 August 09:23

        Don’t let facts cloud the tosh of posters concerned with only their needs and comfort.

  • Mr Jones says:

    8 Aug8 August 09:30

    I’m fairly certain that the current BALPA team we’re all elected in, the workforce had enough of the old BALPA committee, so your comment on hurriedly placing a BALPA committee is totally inaccurate. Furthermore, most have stood as members before or at other major airlines and know only too well how they work, they aren’t just stupid pilots, most have come from banking, accounting, consultancy, have their own businesses etc. Just thought I’d clear up your inaccuracies.

  • Charlie Whiskey says:

    8 Aug8 August 09:32

    If I were in the BA PR department and asked to write a pro-BA piece under the guise of being a customer I could not have done a better job than Nick has here. Or could I? Perhaps I would not be so overweeningly supportive of BA’s stance, nor fail to explain how I had such nuanced inside knowledge of the negotiations and BALPA’s stance. Reminds me of one of those “absolutely everything was superb, everywhere, all the time” TripAdvisor reports. All very suspicious ……

    • Keith says:

      8 Aug8 August 09:37

      Totally agree Charley Whiskey. If this was a forum it would probably show his post count as ‘1’ and joined yesterday.

This article is closed to new comments. Feel free to ask your question in the HfP forums.