You’ll soon be able to redeem Virgin Flying Club miles on Air France KLM

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• Jake Mc says:

  9 Aug9 August 06:37

  Unfortunately I doubt VA will undercut BA on taxes.

  Outside of this blog not many people will have enough miles for a long haul flight on both BA or Virgin (especially for travelling with families / OH as I imagine is the main types of booking) – customers won’t have the option therefore to choose so VA might as well match BA to increase profitability.

  Also VA now actually have a stronger value proposition for people living outside of London. Eg: Why would a family go to the time and cost of getting to London from the south west when they could hop on an AF/KLM flight and transfer from their local airport.

  With both factors I don’t think we will see an undercutting of taxes 🙁

  • Shoestring says:

    9 Aug9 August 07:05

    [Why would a family go to the time and cost of getting to London from the south west when they could hop on an AF/KLM flight and transfer from their local airport.]

    South West might not be the best example as this really only means Bristol/ Cardiff for AF/ KLM. You can forget about Exeter, Newquay, Bournemouth.

    But to answer your question, the reasons why not will be a combination of time and money. You’ll have to factor in 2x flights, ie changing at Amsterdam or Paris, with an onward flight to your final destination. Waiting on the ground twice, waiting in between flights, having to pay for 2 tickets spoke-hub-spoke, whether cash or on points.

    Whereas a 2 hour drive extra up to Heathrow on the M4 is cheap & easy. Giving you a point-to-point single direct flight to your destination.

    Argument breaks down once you start comparing AF/ KLM option starting from Edinburgh/ Glasgow, I guess.

    • Yawn says:

      9 Aug9 August 07:29

      Not sure. As a Cardiff resident, I just loathe that drive down the M4. Don’t forget the need to build in extra time because of the longer distance. Cardiff Airport is just half an hour away with rarely any security queues. And if I have to do any waiting, I’d rather do it in a lounge than in traffic. 😋

      • LewisB says:

        9 Aug9 August 07:35

        Echo this. Helps that the Cardiff Airport T9 express bus stops outside my flat in the Bay. Straight to the airport, no lines and straight on the 6am departure to AMS. The only exceptional rule I’ve found lately is the £1 car from Cardiff Airport to Heathrow.

        • Spaghetti Town says:

          9 Aug9 August 10:02

          +1 – I’m on the Cardiff qatar service in October to Singapore, same price as BA from LHR, so a complete no brainer. Better meals, 30kg baggage allowance and free seat selection.

      • John says:

        9 Aug9 August 08:30

        Especially the 40 mins of roadworks around Reading with avg speed cameras

    • Jake Mc says:

      9 Aug9 August 08:12

      That is a fair point w.r.t the 2x flights and waiting around but I guess it depends on preference. I was thinking however there isn’t enough people who would prefer the drive/transport to London (and associated cost) compared with a flight from their local airport (other examples are Norwich) – especially if 1x stop transfers on AF/KLM from the UK are included in the cost of a long haul flight using miles

      The cash argument breaks down as 1x stop flights will usually be cheaper than direct.

      Also I dont imagine the customer base of people who can choose between redeeming Avios/VA miles for group long haul travel (where the charges really start to add up) is large enough for any form of competition. Really hope I’m wrong though!

      • Shoestring says:

        9 Aug9 August 08:28

        I got excited at the thought of European reward flight possibilities opening up with AF/ KLM – then saw that at current points required levels & timings to get to our place in the sun, it was vastly more expensive and timewise much worse than RFS flights out of LHR, even allowing for Bristol/ Cardiff instead. And I’m driving up 4hrs from Cornwall, ho hum.

        However, as Raffles said previously, there is no certainty that Virgin will mirror the redemption cost of reward flights that are currently offered by AF/ KLM – it’s a separate airline and might ‘do a RFS’ type promotion or somehow otherwise make using Paris/ Amsterdam as a hub much more attractive – would be nice but I’m sceptical!

        But as noted by LewisB, the monthly promos *do* offer exceptional value if it happens to be somewhere you’d like to go, bit hit & miss but once those pesky kids are away, we’ll be a lot more flexible.

  • ChrisC says:

    9 Aug9 August 09:26

    VS can’t undercut BA on TAXES as TAXES are set by Governments.

    They may do something on CARRIER SURCHARGES which aren’t taxes at all but 100% down to the airlines.

    But of accuracy helps. Bad enough the airlines try to blame the government for their own carrier surcharges without anyone else doing it.

    • the_real_a says:

      9 Aug9 August 13:35

      VS can indeed subsidise the taxes as BA do with some RFS routes

      • Guesswho2000 says:

        9 Aug9 August 14:57

        Correct, the government couldn’t care less who pays the taxes, but someone has to. If the airline chooses to do it for the passenger, a la RFS, then so be it, and that gives BA a remarkable edge at the moment.

    • Mzungu says:

      9 Aug9 August 14:58

      “But of accuracy helps…” 😋😋😋

• Urty says:

  9 Aug9 August 06:47

  This I great news, I’ve been sitting on around 60k delta miles which I earned in 2012, still there, as I’d no idea how to make use to them!

  • Shoestring says:

    9 Aug9 August 07:21

    I can beat that, I got my original 100K Virgin miles back in 1999 (through Amex) and have had to keep them alive the last 20 years with no redemption flights in Europe available

    • TripRep says:

      9 Aug9 August 07:44

      Playing the long game Harry, nice one

      • Alex W says:

        10 Aug10 August 10:44

        Playing the short (haul) game, more like!

    • Yuff says:

      9 Aug9 August 08:58

      That’s serious commitment shoestring….
      I’m doing that with Tesco cc vouchers, several hundred expiring this month and Uber has disappeared now 😩

    • the_real_a says:

      9 Aug9 August 13:36

      Have you tracked the inflation/devaluation in that time Shoestring? What would 100k have got you back in 1999? 🙂

      • Shoestring says:

        9 Aug9 August 14:15

        nothing in Europe on Virgin back then either!

        we decided to stop flying LH with them when my eldest son hit 5YO, took the 3 of them to NZ and Thailand for the last time and decided to save money by holidaying at our European place in the sun instead

        clock is ticking and LH will start again fairly soon, not with 3 kids, though

  • Lady London says:

    9 Aug9 August 11:02

    I am doubtful of the use of those miles as earn and burn ratios on kl AF are sh*te do far as I can tell right now plus ridiculous co-pay. I would love this not to be the case under any Virgin tie-up.

  • Alex W says:

    10 Aug10 August 10:45

    @Urty, you can already spend Delta SkyPesos on Virgin, AF and KLM! So nothing has changed there.

• LewisB says:

  9 Aug9 August 06:49

  Are we predicting being able to freely transfer miles between KLM Air France and Virgin? I don’t mind a Amsterdam transfer at all, I find doing that much easier flying from CWL than getting to Heathrow. So much so that I have accumulated a fair amount of Flying Blue miles, yet to use a single one however.

  • Alex W says:

    9 Aug9 August 06:55

    Unlikely, in the same way that you can’t transfer miles between BA and AA.

    • Shoestring says:

      9 Aug9 August 07:16

      you might not be able to move the points from 1 loyalty program to another – but you *can* redeem them for reward flights on a sister program

    • Yawn says:

      9 Aug9 August 07:37

      The question will be how much Virgin points will be worth where AF/KLM redemptions are concerned. 10,000 Virgin Miles gets you half way to New York, 10,000 Flying Blue on a bad day is not enough to fly Cardiff to Amsterdam…

      • LewisB says:

        9 Aug9 August 07:55

        But on a good day 10,000 can be enough to get you half way on Business to Canada, from Cardiff. I do find Flying Blue useless without the promo awards. Still yet to use one though so…

        • Spaghetti Town says:

          9 Aug9 August 10:05

          I’ve got 27k Flying Blue Miles just sitting around waiting for a rainy day, It would be a dream to be able to transfer them to VS, but very unlikely I know!

        • LewisB says:

          9 Aug9 August 10:08

          I’ve got 32k and they are difficult to earn. That’s entirely from flying. The best Flying blue promo deals seems to sit around the 40-50k… Miles are even harder to earn now since it’s based on cash tickets.

        • Spaghetti Town says:

          9 Aug9 August 10:22

          Make that 29.7k actually! All mine are from flying with the majority coming from a mistake Alitalia fare in Business Class BCN-FCO-LAX-JFK-FCO-BCN which I had for £450!

        • Alex W says:

          10 Aug10 August 10:42

          I thought you could transfer Amex MR to flying blue. So not that hard to earn compared to other airlines.

    • Guesswho2000 says:

      9 Aug9 August 14:59

      Unlikely, but stranger things have happened – SQ and VA allow transfers between KF/Velocity, but you lose value each time. In spite of this, the numbers do occasionally add up (even if it’s just because you can almost print Velocity points in Australia, whereas Krisflyer miles are harder to come by).

• krys_k says:

  9 Aug9 August 07:01

  Will there likely be a restriction on class of travel available for Virgin points on KLM or Air France ?

  • Rob says:

    9 Aug9 August 07:36

    AF 1st will be restricted, 99% certain.

    • Mikeact says:

      9 Aug9 August 08:50

      FB Miles required for AF 1st Long haul are pretty eye watering…

• TigerTanaka says:

  9 Aug9 August 07:23

  As well as the points & fees on redemptions, it will be interesting to see the KLM points/status earning on Virgin (and vice versa). There are a lot of regional based flyers who are heavy KLM users thanks to their fantastic U.K. route network. Will these people be tempted to start crediting to Virgin instead? Or is an occasional flyer better crediting to KLM instead as they can make better use of the miles.

  I’m KLM gold but with this change I can possibly make some use out of my 8,000 Flying Club Miles.

• Harry says:

  9 Aug9 August 07:41

  For all the BA bashing, some of which is justified, nothing beats their Avios intra European redemption rates and taxes, fees, etc. flying from Heathrow or for flights within the UK or on the few regional international flights. Those awards are very good in terms of miles [Avios] required and the low fixed taxes, fees, etc. required. I recently flew BA Club London to Manchester for just 7,750 Avios and £25. Cheapest paid ticket on the same flight was around £400. The service was great both on the ground and in the air. Fast track security, lounge, meal onboard and a quick exit from the plane. And for a 50-minute flight, the seat was even quite comfortable! Whilst the fees taken by BA across the Atlantic are outrageous, I find the product to be good and the new 350 Business product looks excellent. [No, not a BA troll or employeee!]

  • TripRep says:

    9 Aug9 August 08:26

    Harry – how did that route compare in time/cost (and CO2) against driving or taking the train?

    • Shoestring says:

      9 Aug9 August 08:33

      the danger is that the green mob/ flight shamers agitate to get VAT on int’l tickets & fuel duty added back in to even up the playing field vs trains

      you can be sure of one thing in life: if you’re having too much fun, sooner or later some do-gooder will come along to mess up your day

      • Mark2 says:

        9 Aug9 August 08:54

        +1

      • TripRep says:

        9 Aug9 August 09:41

        “you can be sure of one thing in life: if you’re having too much fun”…

        Let me fix that for you…

        “Someone else will be footing the bill…”

  • @mkcol says:

    9 Aug9 August 08:56

    Your Avios & RFS fee comes to about £110 based on Rob’s valuation.

    Virgin Trains’ First fares start from £50

    According to carbonfootprint.com the flight would create 0.04 tonnes of CO2 whereas the train would be half that at 0.02 tonnes.

• Gavin says:

  9 Aug9 August 07:48

  So can Virgin miles be earned on Air France metal only – what about Air France codeshares eg flying on Korean Airlines metal with annAor France flight number?

  • Rob says:

    9 Aug9 August 08:38

    Not clear yet.

    • Gavin says:

      9 Aug9 August 09:08

      Thanks Rob.. hopefully this is established soon.

• TripRep says:

  9 Aug9 August 07:51

  Good update Rhys.

  Any news on redemption on VS with FlyBE

  • Rhys says:

    9 Aug9 August 09:31

    Not yet…

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