Virgin Atlantic to ask for state aid to avoid bankruptcy

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• The Savage Squirrel says:

  27 Mar27 March 19:30

  I have no problem withh a bailout. I’d just expect to see the owners wiped out (as they would be without aid) and the government become the arms length owner before selling off once normal conditions resume.
  If a bailout rescues some value for the existing owners then I’m out – would rather see my not insignificant Virgin miles pile vaporised than see that happen.

  • jack says:

    27 Mar27 March 20:07

    Agree with this. I couldn’t care about Branson/Delta, just don’t see the point in making BA even more powerful so giving them even less of a reason to give a toss. Starting a new airline is an expensive and usually foolish venture – new competition is not going to emerge. BA buying BMI was not good for consumer choice, service and value, ditto Air Berlin going bust giving Lufthansa even more power in Germany.

• Sip says:

  27 Mar27 March 19:43

  Question: I’ve just managed to redeem 2 ANA flights with the Virgin miles for Dec, I’ve got the confirmations etc. Will Virgin going under or devaluing affect these tickets? Or am I safe to think that when these redemptions are made, ANA effectively “charges” Virgin on a periodic basis already?

  Also, for people not being able to get through via phone, I suggest using the SMS – works surprisingly well and you can send exact instructions – just a little patience required, which is no different than calling right now.

  • meta says:

    27 Mar27 March 20:20

    Your tickets are then invalidated based on experience with other airline bankruptcies.

    • philco says:

      27 Mar27 March 20:31

      Yeah from what little I could find it seems award tickets are typically paid for after the flight has taken place and obviously if the airline who issued the ticket on points has ceased to be such a payment cannot be made.

      • Sip says:

        27 Mar27 March 20:40

        That’s a real bummer then…
        Oh well…guess we’ll just have to wait and see what happens.
        Given that it’ll mean people might lose their jobs and houses, me losing a flight redemption is nothing.
        Hoping that it’ll work out for Virgin because it does seem that out of a lot of airlines, their staff do enjoy their roles. A few of my old high school friends works there and one just lost their job with virgin aus
        Best Wishes

        • meta says:

          27 Mar27 March 21:23

          However, if taxes are higher than £100, you might be able to claim on credit card via S75 or ask them to pay for a comparable flight or pay for ANA directly or perhaps via insurance, but who knows what rules and regulations will be in place by December. You only need to look at the new Italian law forbidding hotel/airline refunds…

        • Charlieface says:

          28 Mar28 March 20:44

          Taxes do not need to be higher than £100, it’s based on the total nominal value of the ticket

• JC says:

  27 Mar27 March 20:05

  I know no-one can foresee the future, but if Virgin were to go bust…

  What normally happens with codeshares? I’ve got a flight on Delta LHR-PDX-LAX, and then SFO-LHR non-stop on VA, all flights ticketed by VA, for July. In the event that VA was to fail in its plee for support and went bust, would the outbound ticket on Delta be cancelled too? Obviously I have insurance/Amex to fall back on if it does happen but I’m half hoping that by the time we get to July/August, thing may have started to clear up a bit. Thanks in advance.

• Olivier says:

  27 Mar27 March 20:16

  If VA goes bust – is it only VA or the Virgin group, including Virgin Bank etc?

  • Shoestring says:

    27 Mar27 March 20:18

    just Virgin Atlantic

    • Rob says:

      27 Mar27 March 22:11

      and Virgin Holidays

  • John says:

    28 Mar28 March 04:27

    Virgin money iss now part of Clydesdale bank so nothing except the name now

• Simon says:

  27 Mar27 March 20:39

  Quote from the Citigroup analyst at the end of the FT piece implying he’d rather let a company he was running fail than give Government a controlling share or primacy over other debtholders… just feels very tone deaf against the higher cost to society of unemployment, loss of competition etc., and doubly so given what’s causing this downturn.

  • Sip says:

    27 Mar27 March 20:42

    Well…he works for Citi…
    As long his job is safe, doesn’t matter about other people’s jobs right? I’m sure that he’ll think differently if their job is on the line if Citi was about to go under.

    • Shoestring says:

      27 Mar27 March 20:46

      Always go to the source and decide for yourself

      He didn’t say that at all: [ Mark Manduca, analyst with Citigroup, said the state bailouts enacted during the financial crisis should give rise to caution this time round. “Government aid will be mired in punitive covenants . . . that potentially could last years,” he said. “The chains include high interest rate debt, subordinating current senior bondholders, and future restrictions on pay for executives and on dividends. That is not really aid at all.”]

      • Chef says:

        27 Mar27 March 21:00

        Do you SMS virgin your Hilton membership number to transfer or did the accounts already need to be linked?
        Many thanks

        • Shoestring says:

          27 Mar27 March 21:07

          everything: Virgin, Hilton, amount

          without IDs and clear authority, they can’t do it

• R P McMurphy says:

  27 Mar27 March 20:53

  Branson said a few years back about a possible rescue of BA, ‘The Government should not intervene to stop companies going bust’, now he comes with his begging bowl. What goes around and all that. It’s sad for the staff at Virgin but Branson’s getting what he deserves.

  • Shoestring says:

    27 Mar27 March 20:56

    too late

    he already sold most of it

    though not sure what saddo frisson of enjoyment you get by saying that

    • R P McMurphy says:

      27 Mar27 March 21:06

      Obviously he didn’t sell enough to not warrant coming with his begging bowl apparently, old man.

      • Jack says:

        27 Mar27 March 21:10

        Sorry but when did Branson come with any begging bowl? It was Peter Norris, chairman of Virgin Group who suggested the bailout, not Branson. Check your facts. Branson may not be perfect but he did pump £215m in less than a week ago…

        • R P McMurphy says:

          27 Mar27 March 21:17

          Sure, sure. It was all Peter Norris. I suppose Branson had nothing to do with telling Virgin staff to take 8 week unpaid leave while he sits on his island with his remaining 4 billion either.

        • R P McMurphy says:

          27 Mar27 March 21:21

          “Eight weeks at the £94 statutory sick pay would cost £754 per employee. There are 8571 employees in Virgin Airlines.

          “If all of them took eight weeks unpaid leave that would be a cost of £6.4 million’

          What a nice guy to pump 215$ million in to prop up the business, yet overlook the meagre 6.4 million to keep his own staff in rent and food.

        • Shoestring says:

          27 Mar27 March 21:21

          he earned it

        • R P McMurphy says:

          27 Mar27 March 21:24

          He earned the savage kicking he’s getting all over the internet, and the press you mean.

        • R P McMurphy says:

          27 Mar27 March 21:34

          When you refuse to pay your staff a wage to live on in a time of national emergency, when you have the means to do so many times over, the ‘other stuff’ isn’t worth a toss.

      • jack says:

        27 Mar27 March 21:30

        So what about Branson. BA are crap as it is, got even worse when BMI disappeared and they’ll get even worse if Virgin go. Unless you’re BA management, there is no benefit. Virgin going bust will leave the consumer (as in BA passengers) worse off. Nobody is going to step in and fill the void with loads of direct routes competing with BA.

• Catalan says:

  27 Mar27 March 21:04

  Hello? Delta? Anyone there? Your silence is deafening!

  • Nick says:

    27 Mar27 March 23:07

    I imagine Delta’s being rated a ‘trash’ investment this week means they have more important things to worry about than a small airline on their periphery.

• tom1 says:

  27 Mar27 March 21:29

  My logic.
  I have 120k virgin points ish. (designed for ANA Tokyo next year – now olympics!)
  I also have 2 virgin upgrade vouchers (only for econ>prem as not gold)

  I can get out now and transfer to Hilton and get £600 of value.
  Or hold out and hope that Virgin Loyalty Group stay alive and get £1200+ value.

  Couple of other considerations…
  The upgrade vouchers make my Virgin points worth slightly more IMO (if the airline still flying)
  I already have enough Hilton points for a holiday this year (and probably won’t use them given current situation) so any more are likely to be used in 2022 and therefore subject to devaluation?

  Right now I think the chance of ANA in first is more appealing than 45 nights in HGI Bali DPS!

  • jack says:

    27 Mar27 March 21:42

    I agree and have come to the same conclusion with a similar number of points, so happy to risk it as I don’t see much benefit in taking a huge hit redeeming for Hilton which won’t get me anything I particularly want. Of course I may lose everything but I think VS will come out of this.

    • jack says:

      27 Mar27 March 22:10

      Well they do have better things to be doing when people are stranded, flights cancelled, hours on hold etc. In any case someone is going to be kicking themselves – Virgin Upper or ANA First redemption vs. £500 or so of value at Hilton. I’m still happy to risk it.

      • Filthy Phil says:

        27 Mar27 March 23:03

        A bird in the hand and all that….

    • Brian W says:

      27 Mar27 March 22:14

      Good point Genghis 😂

      #hypocrite

    • Novice says:

      27 Mar27 March 23:02

      👍 genghis

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