Maximise your Avios, air miles and hotel points

The new HFP chat thread – Wednesday 5th August

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We have decided to run this new daily chat thread on Head for Points.

Historically, the daily ‘Bits’ articles were the de facto repository for random comments and questions.  It is unlikely that the news flow will be so big over the next few weeks that we will need many ‘Bits’ articles, however.

The comments under this article are where you should post questions about travel and, indeed, anything else on your mind.  At this tricky time, and given that many of you are stuck at home self-isolating, we want the HFP community to have a place to chat.

Please only comment under the main articles on the site if your comment is directly related to the topic of the article.  This has long-term benefits as its keeps the commentary relevant for people who read those articles in the future.

By default, HFP shows the last page of comments under the article.  If you want to see the first page of comments and read them all from beginning to end in order, click here: https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/08/05/the-new-hfp-chat-thread-wednesday-5th-august/comment-page-1.  The page will refresh with this article but the comments will now show the first page and not the last page.

Old chat threads are hidden from the HFP home page.  If you want to look for something in an old thread, click here.  This brings up all the articles in our ‘General’ category which includes the chat threads.

Comments (166)

  • mark2 says:

    Can someone confirm please that BAPP 241 currently last for 30 months and is there an end date for qualifying?

  • Green Plastic says:

    Hi all – really embarrassingly simple Curve question. Do the transactions appear directly on your underlying credit card, or do you have to settle a separate bill with Curve?

    • Andrew says:

      Automatically, like a charge from a retailer – usually prefixed by the word CURVE on the underlying card’s statement

    • the_real_a says:

      They pass through automatically to your underlying card on a transaction by transaction basis instantly.

    • Rob says:

      On the underlying card.

  • Elaine J. says:

    I tried phoning BA on the dedicated Silver members number, only to find out that this number is no longer operational. Gold number is still operating. Then had to wait 40 minutes for my call to be answered.

  • Steve R says:

    Does someone keep pulling the plug out of BA’s computer system to use the kettle?

    One minute i see RFS flights, then I don’t, then I do.

    Also, (sure this has been answered previously) Currently do the four & two RFS seats become automatically available at 0001 hours or 0101 hours

    • Anna says:

      It can be any time between 0100 and 0200 as they load them up in batches I think.
      I can’t see RFS at all, I keep getting sent to the “stopover ” page over and over again!

  • Yan says:

    It is an above average product by ME/Asian carriers’ standard but certainly better than BA, for which the £300+ extra can only be justified by upgrading to First

  • fivebobbill says:

    Guys, I know this has been discussed plenty of times, but if I recall rules may have changed?
    I have a BAPP card, the wife has Amex Gold and the fee is due but wants to keep her points alive.
    I’m looking at referring her for Amex Green, or the Amex Rewards Credit Card.
    I know she won’t get a spend bonus whichever one, but will I get a referral bonus for referring her to either? I know you didn’t get one a year or so ago for the latter…

    • Grant says:

      You will get referral bonus for referring to Green but not the free Rewards Card. Bonus depends on which card you refer from.

      • fivebobbill says:

        Ahh, that would explain my confusion Grant. The Amex website claims you get a referral bonus for referring someone to the ARCC, but of course it’s specifically referring from ARCC to ARCC. One would reasonably assume then that you would get a referral bonus then when referring from ANY Amex card. I didn’t get a referral bonus about a year ago when referring someone for this card, but
        although I can’t remember, my referral could well have been from BAPP…

        • fivebobbill says:

          Update on this, and clarity for anyone else confused by this.
          I have just managed to speak to Amex re the above on CHAT, I asked:

          ME – “I have a BAPP card, if I refer my wife and she takes out the ARCC instead, will I still receive a referral bonus?”

          AMEX – Yes, she can apply for any card from the referral link that you will be sharing with her in an email. And once her card will be approved you will be eligible for the referral bonus.

          ME – “Thank you. So to be clear, if I refer my wife via my referral link, and she applies for and is accepted for the The American Express Rewards Credit Card, I will receive a 9,000 avios referral bonus?”

          AMEX – That is correct.

    • TGLoyalty says:

      Green leaves the door open for a future upgrade to Platinum and 20k points for £4k spend. ARCC doesn’t though you could always refer to a green in future.

      • fivebobbill says:

        Have the Green myself for that very reason TG, this one’s just to keep the missus’s points alive, without paying for the privilege.

  • Nathan says:

    Hi All, quickish question. I had a return flight and hotel booked with BA for Vegas in January in first class. This was on the 747. They have today informed me that these flights have been cancelled and moved to new flights that use the same flight number and departure time, but are obviously not on the 747 as they are no more. It is the 777 and I have been moved to Club World from First, as I assume there is no first cabin in the specific 777 configuration assigned,
    What are my rights here, if anything? I have only paid the deposit so far, so haven’t fully paid. Appreciate any info. Cheers

    • William Stuart says:

      Nathan,
      Snap!
      We had First bookings to and from Las Vegas and like you just received emails telling us we have been downgraded.
      Like you I’d like to know what our options are.

    • BS says:

      You can either:
      cancel with full refund
      Proceed, but you will be due 75% refund of that sector (including taxes)

      • Nathan says:

        Thanks for the info. Interesting that they didn’t mention any of those options in the email. Guessing that for either of those options, I will need to engage with them, rather than BA actually being proactive and assisting.

      • Lady London says:

        No not just 75% refund.

        you can price it as such. also accepted in court for avios bookings has been retail price BA charges for avios, then multiplying that retail price by 75% of the avios needed for a First ticket plus 75% of the First-level taxes.

        for cash bookings you could look at claiming thd total diff in retail price cash between F and J

        Either of the above approaches is also justifiable and may have a better yield.

        Remember that if your tickets were bought with a 241 you claim the above for each person downgraded not just one. This is about buying the equivalent seats im the open market and what they would cost to replace. Nothing to do with what you paid.

        • meta says:

          You can also ask for a re-route on another airline in F!

        • TGLoyalty says:

          the Avios @ retail price was when contested in court as BA refused to compensate and lost

          If they were to offer 75% of your Avios + Money back without contesting it I doubt you could claim the cash equivalent

          If you are downgraded, your airline must reimburse you within seven days. The amount you receive is calculated as a percentage of what you paid for your ticket, and depends on the length of your flight:

          For short-haul flights of less than 1,500km, you will receive 30% of the price of the flight.
          For medium-haul flights of 1,500km – 3,500km, or flights within the EU of more than 1,500km, you will receive 50% of the price of the flight.
          For long haul flights of more than 3,500km, you will receive 75% of the price of the flight.
          It is likely you will only receive a refund for the portion of your journey that was downgraded.

          For instance, if you booked a return ticket for £1,000, but were only downgraded on the return leg, your reimbursement may be calculated as a percentage of £500.

          • ChrisC says:

            It’s based on the cost of the fare for the SECTOR that has been downgraded not the whole flight. If that is not easily discernible then it is appropriate to pro rata the distance of the downgraded sector v the whole flight and apply that.

            And taxes and airport fees are also excluded (but you should be reimbursed the bald difference if there is any difference in those so if you were downgraded right down to economy ex LHR then you’d get the difference between the standard rate and the reduced rate and not 75% of the standard rate.

            The formulae is based on the Mennens (? Spelling) case at the ECJ, the EU261 thread on the BA flyer talk board has a very good explanation..

          • ChrisC says:

            And you need to remember that fares are often asymmetric per sector and not a straight 50-50 on a return trip.

            A downgrade on one leg of £1k return ticket to say LHR – NYC is not calculated as £500 as that does not reflect that APD ex UK is a significant part of the fare element for the leg to JFK (not to mentioned that proper taxes and airport fees are excluded form the calculation)

        • Jonathan says:

          You’ll have to go via. Small Claims Court to get those settlements out of BA currently. I’d rate chances at less than 50:50 in current climate of suspended EU261 and a DJ’s interpretation of reasonable behaviour.

          Just take the refund if you don’t want to fly (ineligible for downgrade compo if you don’t travel) or take the Avios difference if you do. BA are being perfectly fair (for once) with the options in the current climate.

          • TGLoyalty says:

            Is it reasonable to down grade someone in x months time because of COVID19 disrupting travel this month. I’m not sure sure but it’s probably a battle you’d have to have closer to the time.

          • Lady London says:

            you could well be correct if mediation / CEDR was the route you chose but there arw plenty of reports of perverse judgments being given on those. For that reason I’d do a moneyclaimonline aa the law is clearly on my side and I’m not asking for leeway – i just have to make a case and explain my calculation and why that basis is reasonable and let the court decide. All valuations based in the 75% in the statute will yield an acceptable result.

            So in court you would be protected from perverse decisions more. You certainly wouldnt have to settle for just the difference in classes in avios/tax it would somehow be based on 75% of First (all this is assuming long haul for other distances/class drops calculate and choose based on the ratios mentioned by @TGLoyalty and you may choose a different basis.

            Below £10k claim it’s likely to be done online for quite a small fee which you get back when you win. Good chance it’s settled before court too.

            If BA had a good record on not trying to diddle people and paying out promptly in clear EU261cases then I might not also go for the pro rata 8% statutory interest for every day they pay me late 🙂

          • Lady London says:

            @Jonathan EU261 is not suspended. The EU Transport Commissioner has twice reminded airlines of this publicly since March.

            What is suspended effectively, currently, is the ability to claim compensation that it is normally possible to claim for short notice (<14 days) flight delays and cancellations. This is because within EU261 an airline is exempt from paying compensation for the fact that a flight is delayed or cancelled if this was due to curcumstances beyond the airline's control – primarily only external ones are accepted.

            However other compensation is still applicable as far as we know so far and the airline is still responsible for duty of care, rerouting, refunds etc also if necessary due to the cancellation/rescheduling, hotel and subsistence. All of which is fair enough.

            If you know different please can you post on tomorrow's general chat thread?

  • Andreas says:

    Which family members does Amex Platinum travel insurance cover? I live in the same household as my parents and brother – are they covered by the full insurance if we all travel together?

    • Rob says:

      Policy document is on the website. Irrespective, you can cover them by giving out free Gold supplementary cards.

      • Andreas says:

        I was intending to one of them a plat supp and the other two a gold supp, because if they’re going to get some benefits from me holding the card, then they can earn me some points in return.

        Insurance doc says:
        ‘ “Supplementary Cardmember” means a person who has been nominated by the Cardmember to be issued with an additional Card on the Account and is also covered by the insurance benefits included with the Card. ‘

        They will also have additional cards on the account (gold and plat) but what does “and is also covered by the insurance benefits included with the Card.” mean? Do the gold cardholders still get the full plat insurance, or do they get a version of the gold insurance?

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