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The HfP chat thread – Wednesday 21st April

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Comments (363)

This article is closed to new comments. Feel free to ask your question in the HfP forums.

  • bafan says:

    At least we can start the day off on a bright (non travel related) note – the Super League is dead!

    #FSGout etc etc.

    • KBuffett says:

      I really didn’t see what the big issue was with having a super league. It probably would have been very entertaining.

      Everything in football is about money anyway, so why not a super league….

      • ken says:

        Its about establishing a cartel that is set in stone. Three main reasons.

        1) It stops new entrants (PSG, Man City, Chelsea) disrupting the established teams.

        2) Revenue becomes more predictable. Arsenal drop out the champion league places & it means investment from the owner to try and get back.

        2) It would allow a salary cap to be put in place which is hugely attractive to the USA owners.

        Whenever I hear people moan about players salaries, I always think… ‘yeah, I wish that money was gushing straight into the Glazers, Mike Ashley or assorted human rights abusers pockets and staying there’

        I quite like assorted ME owners squandering money on workng class players. Better than selling them cluster bombs.

        If USA owners take a huge bath as well, that just gravy.

    • BuildBackBetter says:

      Club owner trying to get more money for the club? Shocking.
      I mean Qatar using bribes to get the World Cup and hundreds of labourers dying building stadiums – that’s nothing compared to what the club owners have done.

      • BSI1978 says:

        Agreed, the level of hysteria this has caused has been a real eye-opener, even to this cynical chap. Shame the collective opprobrium couldn’t be better used or seen on issues arguably more important.

      • Chris Heyes says:

        BuildBackBetter, Yes totally agree.
        But you have to remember Football is now the “most” corrupt sport “in the world”
        It was at one time Boxing, then Horse Racing, (Athletics to a lesser degree)
        But Football has shot way above all of them, not entirely blaming foreign players who have entered the English League’s.
        Football was always tainted with players who are willing to cheat to get a result.
        But you now cant watch a game without seeing loads of cheating, every game.
        The main problem is the fans accept it, even want it, as long as its their team.
        Commentators (ex-players) expect it, because cheating is part of their game.
        How many times have you heard he took a booking for the team, or its a professional foul.
        What they mean is he cheated.
        The problem is now there is no way back from the cheating so its part of the game forever

    • Chris Heyes says:

      It was always dead, only idiots thought diferently
      there would have been a negotiation about what/when/how
      They should still ban the teams involved from Champions League, FA Cup ect for 3/4 years

    • Rui N. says:

      Yes, so bright a day when we discovered that we have a government that seriously considers to legislate to stop private businesses doing what they want. So happy.

      • Guernsey Globetrotter says:

        I think you fundamentally misunderstand the role any government must play in ensuring a functional capitalist economy.

        • Rui N. says:

          Yes, @Guernsey Globetrotter, yes the private dealings of six UK companies with relatively limited turnover (and even more limited levels of profitability) are for sure putting in cause our capitalistic society!
          @Alikssays, no it’s not. That’s a straw man, and a very poor one.

          • Guernsey Globetrotter says:

            I suggest you look up the definition of a cartel – this was an attempt by a small group of very powerful businesses to fix the price of their product in a way that benefited them only and was detrimental to their weaker competitors and ultimately the consumer (fan) also. This is one of the clearest examples of an attempt to create a monopoly that I have ever seen and I cannot see how anyone could argue otherwise…

          • Rui N. says:

            How’s that different from the current system exactly?

          • J says:

            @Rui N. – Because under the current system, a well run business/club that finds unique and novel ways to compete can eventually build to level to compete with and/or surpass the current market leaders. In a closed competition that is never possible.

          • Rui N. says:

            You can just buy one of the clubs in the Super League and do that. Which is exactly what you need to do if you want to achieve that in the EPL.

          • J says:

            Are you willing to take a bet that a team other that ‘the top 6’ will the Premier League in the next 50 years? Sounds like you don’t think it’s possible…

          • Rui N. says:

            Are you willing to bet that no other teams that the founding 12/15/whatever would not be in the Super League in the next 50 years? You keep bringing arguments that apply to both the EPL and the Super League…

          • J says:

            Well it’s hard to bet on something that now isn’t happening. But, yes, I think if it did go ahead, those 6 clubs would have no threat of relegation and would still be there in 50 years time. And, as it stands, I don’t believe all 6 will have 50 years of Premier League success, or even top flight survival.

          • J says:

            Sorry, I hadn’t addressed your question. I guess the best I can say if that I think there are adverse market efficiencies when protections are in place to protect poorly run businesses. If clubs face no threat of relegation, there is nothing to stop them cutting costs and coasting on passive income. They could lose every match for a decade and still earn far more than a team kicking ass in the Premier League.

      • Tariq says:

        Shouldn’t be any surprise with this bunch of bedwetters. Enlightening that Boris cares more about Football than Freedom.

        • Brian says:

          Boris doesn’t care about football or freedom. But he thinks people will praise him for ‘standing with the common man’ on this issue. Which is what has happened, even though he doesn’t deserve praise for anything, being a buffoon with no ideas of his own who simply follows the wind whichever way it blows.

      • Aliks says:

        That is an argument for allowing heroin dealers to advertise on children’s TV – and then telling everyone its the parents fault for not educating their children properly..

    • Sandgrounder says:

      Now the European game is stuck in the vice-like grip of UEFA, and an extension of the Champions League that will dilute the quality and force the top clubs to take domestic competitions less seriously will probably go ahead. But at least the mandarins in Switzerland will still have their closed shop generating plenty of cash to cover their fat salaries and even fatter expense bills. Hoorah! A win for the fans!

      • Number9 says:

        Agreed. The hypocrisy and hysteria because some clubs wanted to try something new is staggering. As for banning clubs from competitions for wanting something new well my thoughts on that won’t get printed. All this reminded me of Kerry Packer and 1977 alternative World Series only last 2 years but transformed cricket as we know it today and gave chance to South African players to actually play that couldn’t because of sanctions. All those people calling the clubs are a cartel wth do you think uefa and fifa are ?

        • Rui N. says:

          Even more ridiculous is that the EPL itself is a “break-away” league and was created by a bunch of clubs going against the will of the football authorities to, you guessed, get more money from TV rights. Now some folks talk about the EPL like it is the 11th commandment and everyone that plays there does it for the love of the game…

        • BLG says:

          “Agreed. The hypocrisy and hysteria because some clubs wanted to try something new is staggering”

          No problem with the above IF The trying something new went to teams based on a qualifying system using league position NOT invitation only. As for Spurs being chosen WOW 60 years and counting. Think Blackburn and Leicester if your looking for champions.

        • Chris Heyes says:

          Number9 It’s not the fact that clubs wanted to try something “new” there’s nothing wrong with that But the fact was the clubs wanted to make sure they was in the league without being relegated, although clubs that came in later could be,
          Yes and Uefa and Fifa are just as bad if not worse.
          Look at the Champions League ?
          How many teams in the Champions League are actually Champions ?
          More often than not, it’s won by a team who aren’t Champions
          It’s all designed around money
          I have no idea how they can call it Champions League ?
          Ho and if you get knocked out it’s ok you can go, try Europa League, it’s a “JOKE”
          But then again Football is a joke

        • SteveD says:

          Not sure where to start with this.
          Govt should butt out because ‘capitalism’? Completely tone deaf to the social and cultural aspects of the nation’s most widely played and supported ball sport.
          The ESL is fine because UEFA are worse? Maybe let’s sort out UEFA then instead of just moving the concentration of power from one self-interested party to another.
          Kerry Packer was the saviour of cricket by allowing S.African players to break sanctions? What do you think the sanctions were for exactly?

          Personally I’m disappointed it won’t be going ahead. Sometimes you have to let people over-reach themselves before they learn anything. I’m going to have to put my popcorn back in the cupboard now.

          • Number9 says:

            I eat all mine yesterday watching all the “ experts” getting their jock straps in a twist.

  • CF Frost says:

    May have missed in innumerable chat posts I haven’t read, but have just activated a 500 point bonus for a single use of Amex Nectar. Offer was on my Nectar app. Please go easy on the ‘discussed at length’ comments 🙂

  • Harrier25 says:

    There is nothing entertaining about a closed league with no promotion or relegation.

    • Chris Heyes says:

      Harrier25, Obviously you didn’t read the proposal ?
      It wouldn’t have been a closed league there would have been promotion/relegation
      Just that the founder members (big 6 English) could not be relegated.

      • Harrier25 says:

        ….and that is good how?? The big English 5 and Spurs cannot be relegated. A complete nonsense!

      • Ken says:

        15 founder members couldn’t be relegated.
        A revolving 5 to make up the numbers would.

        Are you sure read the proposal Chris ?

        • Chris Heyes says:

          Ken that’s exactly what i said, just didn’t mention the other founder members because they are irreverent nothing to do with English league

          • J says:

            @Chris Heyes – What I read said there was no promotion/relegation – just annual qualification based on national league performance.

      • BLG says:

        @ CH Have another read.

    • Mouse says:

      People care way more about the premier league title battle than the relegation battle – removal of relegation would be no great loss to the drama or spectacle in that tournament, same point would apply to European competition. No relegation works well for US sports, which are very entertaining. Champions league qualification more or less guaranteed for top Italian, Spanish, German and French clubs today anyway so super league is no real change there anyway.

      • Paul Pogba says:

        That depends entirely on who you support.

      • Harrier25 says:

        Ridiculous. Without promotion and relegation we have no game. It is a core part of the sport. Rewarded for success and relegation for failure.

        • Mouse says:

          I don’t see what’s unique about football that makes promotion and relegation essential when baseball, basketball, NFL etc are all fantastic and exciting sports without it. Just because we’ve always had it doesn’t mean it’s essential to the sport.

          • Ken says:

            You can’t have watched much baseball if you think it’s exciting.
            Much of it is on a par with county cricket.
            It’s been usurped as the American number 1 sport by NFL and Basketball

          • Mouse says:

            You can’t deny NFL and basketball are exciting though

          • DarrenS says:

            I have watched one live game of baseball. It was fantastic. Won on the last pitch by a home run which was hit by Andruw Jones, who had returned form retirement due to an injury crisis. 40,000 people went wild.

          • Harrier25 says:

            What’s the point of it all without promotion and relegation? It completely takes the competitive element away leaving nothing to play for.

      • Ken says:

        Apart from PSG , which French teams are guaranteed Champions League football?

        When did AC Milan last play in the champions league ?

        • Mouse says:

          My point was that a lot of clubs are effectively guaranteed CL anyway – PSG, Juve, Real, Barca, Bayern, Dortmund, Man City, etc, in practice this would just add a few to the list

          • Optimus Prime says:

            Juve and Dortmund are struggling this year. PSG and City won’t have an issue as long as their owners keep pumping oil money.

          • BLG says:

            On another note Man City were relegated to division 3 only 23 years ago and Leicester where there in 2009 . For me that’s the beauty of football the dreams of the people who matter “the fans” Try selling no promotion to Lincoln, Fleetwood and Salford fans. Then Wolves fans from league 2 to europe in 3 or 4 years. Shame on these six clubs owners. I really hope Leicester and WH QUALIFY ( thats right earn a place in the CL ) and deny Chelsea, Liverpool or Spurs a place.

          • J says:

            @Mouse – a decade ago you would have said that Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea were guaranteed CL qualification – Juventus and Man City didn’t qualify. Two decades ago, Newcastle might have made the list.

          • Ghosty says:

            Salford fans?

      • Titus Adduxas says:

        American ‘sports’ are made for TV and bear no resemblance to the excitement of football in Europe. An American Football match takes 3-3.5 hours for a game which has just 1 hour of play! A football match lasts half that long and has 50% more play time! It’s all artificial including the draft system allowing teams at the bottom to get first pick on the players in order to try and level it up! Totally contrived!

        The ESL was a money grabbing scheme by the richest clubs in Europe wanting even more money whilst simultaneously cutting out the competition for clubs like Leicester City who of course defied all the odds by winning the Premier League and then proceeded to reach the last 8 of the Champions League as a result!

        • Mouse says:

          It is contrived but it works. I just find it odd that people are so attached to promotion/relegation as a kind of sporting purity when the game is otherwise beset by rampant corruption, cheating and corporate greed.

          • Harrier25 says:

            USA sports only work in the USA with the rest of work having a complete lack of interest in it.

          • Rui N. says:

            Not true at all. NBA has following worldwide. MLB is very strong in Latin America and Japan. NHL in Eastern Europe. NFL apparently is doing OK in the UK (so much they even play some games here).

          • Rui N. says:

            To put some numbers on this, almost 20% of TV revenue for the NBA comes from outside US/Canada. How many football leagues in Europe can say that about their international revenues? Likely only the EPL and the Spanish league.

          • ken says:

            “almost 20% of TV revenue for the NBA comes from outside US/Canada.”

            No it doesn’t.

            It ignores local TV rights deal which for the large teams (LA, Knicks, Houston, Boston etc) is considerable (LA make a fair bit more from local deal than the national deal).

    • Number9 says:

      Did any of you read the proposal? It was for one extra midweek game with up to 15 founding clubs with an extra 5 clubs joining. It was to be played along standing league and cup games. It wasn’t to replace the premier league.

      • ChrisC says:

        They already complain how tired and over worked they are and about fixture congestion but they wanted to add at least an extra 20 games a season?

        • Number9 says:

          Well less partying might help. The tiredness excuse won’t wash with me. You should listen to Jimmy Greaves and his thoughts on today’s players using that as an excuse.

          • Chris Heyes says:

            Number9 Or longer bans would be better.
            I’d like to see a panel set up to review every game, with the authority to give players long bans for deliberate cheating
            Maybe 6 months ban if seen to be deliberate
            Or even better the team itself have to play with 10 men whilst the player is banned.
            Otherwise without strict enforcement the game is only going to get worse
            That wont happen of course mainly because the corruption goes all the way in football
            But managers would soon be saying don’t dive or pull the opponents shirt.
            I’m afraid gone are the days you could watch football without football .being ruined with cheaters

      • Harrier25 says:

        Yes but they were going to play second string teams in the Premier League, saving their best players for the midweek European farce because there was no more worry about not making Europe’s top table via the domestic league, hence ruining the top domestic leagues around Europe.

        • Number9 says:

          Don’t they do that already ? How many times do fans moan that they should have rested their best players against say Newcastle or Fulham and saved them for the CL games? How many times do England players get a injury just before some nonsense friendly against switzland or such like and pull out of representing their country. Hate to break it to you but that’s been going on years.

          • Harrier25 says:

            In the cup competitions, yes, but not in the Premier League because there is too much at stake.

          • BLG says:

            If they have then more fools them. Arsenal no chance this year and iffy for liverpool spurs and chelsea. That is why they want a closed shop. The gap is closing and they know it

          • BLG says:

            @ SD How many times do fans moan that they should have rested their best players against say Newcastle or Fulham and saved them for the CL games?

            Maybe a bad choice of teams for you. Spurs dropped 4 points against newcastle and 2 against fulham. Think about it Spurs could have been in a CL qualifying position if they had not dropped 6 points against these 2 ” bottom 6″ teams

      • BrianDRY says:

        Yeah but it’s ridiculous to have a league where 15 teams can’t be relegated but 5 can. Dilutes the Premier league. An average club like Spurs could finish 10th in the PL yet still be in the SL whereas they deserve nothing for that season.

    • Jayne says:

      God this is dull, though not quite as dull as the game itself 😬

  • Ed says:

    BA/Amex Voucher Help Please:

    We had booked a 241 departing Friday to USA, BA cancelled the outbound months ago, so we called and cancelled the booking in the end.

    The cash has returned to my account but the Avios and voucher haven’t. The cancelled booking still shows in my BA app.

    Do you think the Avios and voucher will automatically reappear when the
    cancelled flight isn’t flown (Friday) or should I call BA to chase?

    • Gavin says:

      How long has it been since you called to cancel? BA are being very slow with refunds in some cases. If you call, they might be able to credit the Avios (and possibly voucher) while you’re on the phone.

    • Doc says:

      Voucher and Avios were back in my account in less than 5 minutes when I last did this earlier this year and the refund took something like 10 days to go back on my card. I rang BA to do this and so would recommend that you ring BA.

    • Harry T says:

      You should have the Avios and companion voucher back within a day of cancellation. You need to chase this up.

      • Harry T says:

        By that, I mean when you called for a refund for your cancelled flight, the Avios and 241 should have been credited to your account almost immediately.

    • Louise K says:

      I find the Twitter team the most efficient to help with issues.

    • PhatGit says:

      Had to do this on Saturday when our June flight to JFK were cancelled. Avoid and voucher were back while on the call, money was back on the Card by Monday morning

  • HBommie says:

    With Scotland opening to other UK visitors next week I’m thinking of making a trip to Edinburgh, are the Indigos any good? Nira Caledonia is my usual but considering a change of scenery.

    • Anna says:

      We’ll hopefully be at the Kimpton Charlotte Square the weekend after next. Although Kimpton’s don’t always reward status, our 2 rooms have been upgraded and they’ve booked breakfast for us at the special offer rate applied to “welcome back” bookings (we’ve used 2 x BOGOF certificates plus points for the 3rd night). Whole stay should be around £400.

      • HBommie says:

        Looks nice, lets hope things happen now instead of cancellations.

      • Alan Todd says:

        Hi Anna, may well see you there, we’re heading next Thursday for a couple of nights (one booked with the Amb offer voucher which i didn’t think I’d get to use. Nice to hear you’ve been upgraded, did you call ahead to request this and to book breakfast?

        If you haven’t already done so I’d recommend booking a slot at the pool as well, we had to book a week in advance last time.

        • Peggerz says:

          Aizle restaurant within Kimpton Charlotte Sq doesn’t open until 19th May. Baba, the Nth African/Med resto opens this Monday. The Garden resto is closed too.
          For choice of Indigo, I’d choose York Place over Princes Street. Central, good transportation links and lots of interesting places to eat (restricted opening atm) in the vicinity.

        • Anna says:

          Thanks, yes I have booked our pool slots! I requested the breakfast by emailing and asking if they would transfer the rate from a cancelled booking from March, and they agreed. The March trip was for our silver wedding anniversary and this is the replacement so that may have had some bearing on the upgrade! Have to say they have been lovely and helpful throughout, offering to help us with booking tickets etc.
          It’ll be nice to be able to eat inside restaurants a bit earlier than we can here as well! (even if we have to drink in our room lol).

    • David Birkbeck says:

      Entrance to the hotel is from Charlotte Square, one of the finest squares in the UK, such a change to the access from a surface car park approach to hotel lobbies. I parked on George Street, surely the most elegant council-owned car park in the country? Rooms are fine but like many Indigos focus on themed trappings rather than size and the corridors are tight in parts of new-build. But dining space a good feature right now as it’s a covered internal courtyard atrium with comforting volume to that space.

    • Chris says:

      I found Indigo Princes street to be very noisy from outside noise last time i was there. Clearly less people on the street so probably less of an issue right not

      I like York Place, cos it’s an old townhouse it’s got some interesting unusual rooms, used to come with a Scottish tuck shop in the fridge as well (not sure if it still does that)

      The George is nice, and while i’ve never stayed in the Charlotte Sq Kimpton it’s got excellent dining options (assuming they’re back open)

      • Ed says:

        FWIW I’ve stayed at the indigo york place a few times and have had good experiences. I’d happily return. Though not been for a couple of years now.

  • Michel29 says:

    What happened to all Virgin Atlantic reward flights to the US until January 2022? There was lots of availability until yesterday and it seems to have all disappeared? Is this a glitch and will it just return at some point soon?

  • Secret Squirrel says:

    Tesco pet Ins – anyone received their bonus for 3 x instalments yet?

    • Connor says:

      Nope, think 4 have came out now. Need to give them a push I think.

  • Reney says:

    Morning, Amex referral questions. A few people have mentioned that their ability of refer on a new card wasn’t switched on for a few days (I read up to 5). What is the opinion on the last day to apply for a new amex for it to arrive, activate and refer someone else before the 12 May end date?

    • Damian says:

      I referred someone for an Amex Monday morning. They received the card yesterday morning in the post which was an incredible turnaround. I received the referral points yesterday too.

    • Benilyn says:

      5 days for invite link to come live, 2-4 days for new card to arrive assuming accepted immediately.

    • Lee says:

      I could refer right after active my new Platinum card

      • 747_Brat says:

        Mrs. Brat could refer me right away after activating her card and she has never held an Amex before. So it is definitely not across all new card members.

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