Why the changes to the British Airways Premium Plus Amex could be better than we thought

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• jj says:

  2 Jun2 June 14:33

  Maths time.

  Rob says there are 500,000 BA Amex cards in circulation, so let’s assume 125,000 are black cards. Each 2-4-1 will generate 4 flights, so that’s 500,000 individual reward flights.

  Very roughly, BA operates 250,000 flights per annum. Spread evenly, there would be two voucher travellers on each aircraft. But maybe 75% of flights do not offer great value to voucher holders, so that’s now 8 voucher travellers jostling for seats on the more popular flights.

  Given that 4 Club World flights are already guaranteed to be available on each flight, it doesn’t seem that there will be enough demand to completely swamp I class tickets – or that the impact will be sufficient to cause BA to radically re-think its ticketing strategy.

  • Babyg says:

    3 Jun3 June 00:48

    i think ba have access to more data than any of us… i have used my 2for1 on CE and even Economy when booking school holidays… the avios have to go somewhere right? given BA are give MORE seats how can this be a bad move (except for people with GUFs)… keep it simple, look at in demand routes (SYD, MLE, MRU) now MORE of us have a chance at a reward seat..

• CarpalTravel says:

  2 Jun2 June 15:12

  You’re assuming that all those 2-4-1’s are utilised there. I’ll of had 3 out of 4 expire, even with extensions. 🙁

  • CarpalTravel says:

    2 Jun2 June 16:16

    That was meant to be a reply to jj – I see doing it via my mobile browser it didn’t take…

• Basal says:

  2 Jun2 June 16:48

  Maybe I’m missing something (and I’m new to Avios). I’m fine flying economy to the US, but I would prefer business/first class for overnight travel back to the UK. I was initially excited by the news of soon using the 241 tickets for travel originating elsewhere (i.e., outside the UK). I could then pay for cheap flights to the US (with cash) and then use the 241 for one-way tickets back to the UK (in business/first). But then I did a trial search and saw the taxes/fees/charges; one-way charges are £514/person, but return charges are £575/person! So, this one-way strategy seems a bit pointless.

  • P4D says:

    2 Jun2 June 17:30

    Out of the US it is not useful yes (Rob has written a whole article on how US avios surcharges got out of hand), originating elsewhere it can be useful.

    • Basal says:

      2 Jun2 June 17:35

      Thanks, I’ll have to check out Rob’s article on that

• JoshC says:

  2 Jun2 June 16:53

  Maths again.
  Amex fee £250. Copays on JFK £700 pp, so cost of a 241 is £1650 plus 110,000 avios.
  R class on same route say £1,350 pp, so extra is £1,050 total not to have to play the availability lottery. The 110,000 avios not spent plus say another 30,000 earned means net up 140,000 avios – enough for almost 6 CLub Europe returns. V few CE routes can be regularly got for sub £175 return.
  So better off giving up on Amex, or better still replace with HSBC Premier MasterCard Elite.
  If you are GGL or higher this applies even more.
  The author needs to rethink his maths. The new Amex is a rubbish deal.

  • Doug M says:

    2 Jun2 June 17:03

    You’re comparing a near fully flex redemption with a no changes discount fare. At present BWC gives you cover, but that won’t last. I agree that discounted cash fares often make sense, but it’s only fair to mention the flexibility of one versus the other.

    • CarpalTravel says:

      2 Jun2 June 17:47

      I just spent ages checking what an R class ticket type was only to find out and then come and see you have posted almost exactly what I was going to say! I really should learn to read threads through…

      Totally agree, I have to say that this is a terrible comparison as the flexibility has a huge value and is I have used it many times. The last time I paid cash for non-flex (2x £1600 for tickets to JFK) I had to cancel and so lost them both, recovering only the taxes.

      Even keeping with the competitive route example, a fairer maths comparison would be to the fully flex tickets which right now is £20,000. The non-Flex is currently £4,000.

      That makes the £250 for the BAPP look extremely attractive to all but perhaps the most unyielding of travellers.

  • BuildBackBetter says:

    2 Jun2 June 17:07

    It’s rubbish to compare to one of the most competitive routes where cash fares are very good.

  • DT says:

    2 Jun2 June 17:08

    What happens when you want to fly somewhere other than JFK? What happens when cash price for the dates you want aren’t the lowest fares possible? What happens when you aren’t going exUK and the copays are less? What happens if you want the flexibility of £35 cancellation on your ticket? What happens if you’re very avios rich and would rather use them than cash?

    Bold to assume that there is only one way to use a 241. Even bolder to assume that those savvy enough to be on this website are blind and will only use 241 vouchers instead of comparing to cash prices.

    • Ed says:

      2 Jun2 June 17:32

      The flexibility angle is true. In the JFK example above the nectar pseudo cash value of 130,000 avios is £1,040

  • jj says:

    2 Jun2 June 17:35

    The new Amex isn’t a rubbish deal. You just chose a rubbish example. Long-haul to the USA is pretty much the worst imaginable use of Avios, even in Club.

    And don’t forget that you earn Avios much faster with the premium card. For many people, that more than offsets the annual fee.

    • Ed says:

      2 Jun2 June 17:44

      I think perhaps it should highlight that the maths isn’t always clear cut. when and where you’re travelling should be considered carefully.

    • CarpalTravel says:

      2 Jun2 June 17:50

      jj – Is it really that poorer a use? It is all I have ever used mine for. (I am a very boring holidayer – I know what I like etc…). Have you recommendations for better routes to look at? Maybe I should broaden my horizons…

      • The Savage Squirrel says:

        2 Jun2 June 18:20

        This thread just made me price up my recent US redemption vs cash. 2.5k, 2 vouchers and 275k ish Avios. Flexible tickets would be forty eight thousand pounds. Non flexible tickets no way I’d book them. The second we lose BWC vouchers and Avios become SO much more valuable…

        • Ed says:

          2 Jun2 June 19:06

          Avios tickets are not fully flexible, yes can be cancelled for a relatively nominal fee. But you can only rebook where there is availability. There is unquestionably value to be had out of the BAPP for many, but it depends on what your needs are.

      • jj says:

        2 Jun2 June 19:19

        CarpalTravel, I probably overstated the case a little with the word ‘rubbish’, but you can do much better.

        The problem with the USA is that cash fares are usually so cheap that it’s almost impossible to get 1p/Avios return, which is a sensible baseline target. When you factor in the earned Avios forgone on a cash ticket and, if important to you, the tier points, it’s normally better to pay cash and use your Avios elsewhere.

        If you want to visit the USA and can’t afford cash tickets, it might be a great use of your Avios. But if you will be buying cash tickets to other destinations, you might want to switch things around.

        If you are Avios-poor, places like Greece or the Canaries will generally yield much more than 1p/Avios, and the flights are long enough for Club to make sense. If you have more Avios, destinations in South America, Africa or Asia will often offer a strong return.

        • Ed says:

          2 Jun2 June 19:32

          Surely the cash poor, Avios rich equation fundamentally altered with the nectar tie-in. The ability to exchange Avios for nectar, at a conversion of 0.8p per Avios must be factored in now.

        • CarpalTravel says:

          2 Jun2 June 20:10

          Thanks jj for the reply, I appreciate it and makes things clear for me. I do generally only fly using Avios and will bear in mind your advice. Currently I have nearly 400k stashed and several 2-4-1’s, just trying to get into a position to make use of them! Will make sure I do do the comparisons though, make sure the Avios usage is sensible. :thumbsup:

        • Chris Heyes says:

          2 Jun2 June 20:50

          JJ I never even look at cash prices we are Avios rich and it doesn’t bother me how many Avios it is, although we go for the £50 tax/surcharge and Avios for Club seats around 3/4 Holidays a year 3/4 weeks at a time.
          So we probably spend more time abroad than the norm (unless on Business)
          Our Avios will outlive me at 74 this year
          I honestly don’t see the point in paying cash for flights, if my Avios are worth less or more than 1p I don’t care I’ve plenty of Avios to throw at flights.
          We go where we decide to go regardless

• Hak says:

  2 Jun2 June 19:10

  The thing that will swing it for me is whether First becomes reasonably available once again. Without that then I am out. Just collect MR points.

  • Rich says:

    2 Jun2 June 19:54

    They’ve just scrapped tens of planes with First and are reducing seats in others – equalling probably 600 in total and so I don’t think First seats will ever become reasonably available again I’m afraid.

    • Ed says:

      2 Jun2 June 19:58

      Going to depend a bit more on routes and flexibility. Wide open f availability to Boston next spring.

    • Kevin D says:

      2 Jun2 June 22:48

      First on BA LHR-MEX return for this years Mexico GP is £3,200 return. It’s looking like it is becoming better to pay cash for F and J class tickets. Forgive my inexperience as I’m only new on hfp but I always thought First would be 5 figures return for BA long haul!

• Rich says:

  2 Jun2 June 20:17

  Whilst it’s probably a strange question given all this news, but do Amex still make gestures for long standing card holders? I’ll have had my card for 20 years in August and so will escape the fee increase for a year but recall getting a gift of the then BA Miles (or Avios), I think at either my 5th or 10th anniversary, or is this kind of gesture now just a thing of the past?

  • Memesweeper says:

    2 Jun2 June 21:43

    No harm in asking. There have been retention offers in the recent past.

  • Sloth says:

    2 Jun2 June 22:46

    I’ve been with them for 22 years and I’ve never had any anniversary gestures off them…

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