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The HfP chat thread – Wednesday 22nd September

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We are running this daily chat thread on Head for Points during the coronavirus outbreak.

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Comments (644)

  • AG says:

    Just received from the below from Curve. Whilst I purchased some PB using Curve, it was over 12 months and for less than £10k in total. Perhaps that’s what Creation asked them to do to unblock them.

    As you may be aware, we have an obligation to monitor transactions through Curve accounts. We have noticed certain transactions taking place on your account that might prevent us from continuing to provide our services to you.

    Specifically, we have observed a number of transactions at NS&I that indicate that cash recycling may be occuring, (e.g. revolving borrowed or own funds between financial institutions for financial gain). We value your custom and want to keep your account open and active, however, we must remind you that such activity is against our Terms of Service, our Fair Use Policy, NS&I’s terms and conditions and potentially also your card issuer’s terms and conditions.

    If we continue to observe this kind of account activity, Curve will unfortunately have to suspend your account until we have been able to confirm that the activity is not cash-recycling and has a legitimate purpose.

    We look forward to your continued use of Curve.

    Team Curve

    • Sprout says:

      Same here 2 emails on 2 accounts. 1 very rarely used as well.

    • Andrew H says:

      Exactly the same

      One £100 transaction for PBs I still have

      Not even cash recycling, let alone “a number” of transactions

  • Josu says:

    Just got the exact same email. What’s the sentiment surrounding this? Honestly they’re useless to me outside of this as a metal subscriber so want to understand if this is coming to an end, or if it’s for them to satisfy NS&i and that they won’t actually take action?

    What happens to our metal sub should they block our account? (I paid the year up front)

    • Rui N. says:

      You don’t need metal to use Curve on Ernie, so if that’s the only reason for paying metal you’re overpaying.

      • Josu says:

        True. I also use it for paying off my Amex’s which is the real benefit for metal.

  • Rob says:

    I strongly recommend you cancel it ASAP then 🙂

  • Andrew H says:

    Bendy have p****d me right off

    Accused me of cash recycling through NS&I

    I bought one lot of £100 of premium bonds with VA+ behind, and still have them

    They said “a number of transactions”. A number means more than 2 or 3. I’ve asked for proof, and told them that I don’t appreciate the tone of their email

    And I’m an Investor (partly for the “free” Metal admittedly)

    • Yorkie Aid says:

      Just out of interest, is there actually any legal definition of cash recycling? If you put money into a savings account it isn’t a gift to the receiving institution. You would only ever make a deposit if you intended at some later point to make a withdrawal.

    • TGLoyalty says:

      So you should with that volume. Sending an email with that tone to anyone and everyone who has used NS&I is highly unprofessional

    • Sean says:

      Wouldn’t worry about the tone of the email – i’d be more worried about your investment.

  • Harry T says:

    This is like Creationgate again – for the next week, multiple people will repeatedly tell us about their email from Curve 😂

    • Andrew H says:

      Just because you didn’t get one….

      I’ve been told off on Snowheads for going on about being in Ischgl the week they shut it down because of Covid (google Ischgl and Covid if you don’t understand what I’m on about!)

    • BuildBackBetter says:

      Haha. You get to see users who were lurking.

    • Paul Pogba says:

      For once I’ve been busy so I searched the comments for “Curve” and drew a blank, I don’t have time to search every conceivable code word.

    • Andy says:

      “If we continue to observe this kind of account activity, Curve will unfortunately have to suspend your account until we have been able to confirm that the activity is not cash-recycling and has a legitimate purpose” – no reason to get outraged if the transactions have a legitimate purpose and it’s not cash recycling though!

      • Sean says:

        how can using a debit card to disguise a credit card transaction behind the scenes be legitimate?

        • Aston100 says:

          Why don’t you ask Curve that as this is their USP isn’t it?

        • Andy says:

          Because that’s what Curve fronted is for? Either you pay Curve the transaction fee, or you pay the annual fee for metal. You are not manufacturing spending if you use Curve to buy some premium bonds, leave them in your NS&I account as a legitimate investment and pay your credit card balance off with direct debit / bank debit card…but that’s not why Curve has sent the email around, is it?

          • Rui N. says:

            So, you’re saying that using the services that Curve provides allowing you to pay a credit card with another credit card is not a legitimate investment? They can’t have it both ways.

        • Genghis says:

          Can you put a curve card behind a curve card? 🙂

      • Alan says:

        What exactly is cash recycling? I put spare cash in PB and then take it out when I need it. Isn’t that what you are meant to do.

    • Andy says:

      Rui N. I would say using a credit card to pay another credit card balance is not an investment in the first place! If it is against their T&Cs – can’t say I’ve bothered to read them as I don’t use Curve for recycling – then it is indeed not a legitimate use of their product…

      • Rui N. says:

        Curve specifically mentions the ability of paying credit cards with another credit card in their promotional material. That’s one of the reasons why “Fronted” exists. Quoting Curve “Turn on Curve Fronted in the app and you can pay your UK taxes or credit card bills with another credit card, just like you would pay for anything else.”
        (You are correct that “investment” is far from the appropriate word here. I meant to say “use” or something like)

        • Andy says:

          The issue seemingly here is not using fronted though, but rather recycling. i.e. I don’t think Curve have an issue if you deposit 5k of your spare savings to NS&I via curve fronted. I suspect they have an issue if you take those 5k out and the next day do it again, multiple times a month

  • Paul Pogba says:

    I’ve just had an email from Curve regarding suspicious National Savings transactions on my account. I haven’t paid anything to NS&I for about two years and it was a one off actual payment into an account. I was paying my Amex off with Creation until the block but this isn’t mentioned. Are they blanket emailing everybody?

    • Rui N. says:

      I wonder if someone on this page has commented about this email from Curve….

    • Andrew H says:

      Yes. we should blanket email them back

      At least those of us who HAVEN’T been using it for recycling

  • Chris says:

    Possibly the first time I’ve ever seen a points-based Golden Goose announce it might die soon!!!
    It can go one of two ways – either the goose survives, as a less golden variety, because the goose-killers moderate their behaviour. Or, it gets killed quicker as the goose hunters thwack it in the last-ditch feeding frenzy.

    I know which way I think it may go…….

  • KBuffett says:

    Are there grounds to complain to a regulator about receiving these emails?
    And perhaps highlight their promotional material

    • Babyg says:

      why , what exactly are you trying to achieve? people gloat about bending beardy whilst rogering ernie – passively encouraging others to do the same, eventually N&SI etc get overwhelmed by the MS and ask curve to act.. if youre using curve+n&si as intended you shouldnt have an issue right?

      • Andrew H says:

        “if youre using curve+n&si as intended you shouldnt have an issue right?”

        Buying £100 of PBs and keeping them IS using Fronted as intended, and I have an issue with the email I received as I am not recycling

        So, I don’t get your point?

      • KBuffett says:

        I have an issue with them sending me an email stating I’ve done something against their and NS&I’s terms and conditions. This is false

        If they want to send such emails, they should be preferred to defend their actions.

        • Andy says:

          “We have noticed certain transactions taking place on your account that MIGHT prevent us…”
          “Specifically, we have observed a number of transactions at NS&I that indicate that cash recycling MAY be occuring”
          “If we continue to observe this kind of account activity, Curve will unfortunately have to suspend your account until we have been able to confirm that the activity is not cash-recycling and has a legitimate purpose.”
          So essentially if you haven’t done anything against their or NS&I’s T&Cs, the worst that will happen is your account will be temporarily suspended but you will be able to prove you are not recycling, and you can get access again

        • Babyg says:

          perhaps you should complain if you have an issue, but what are you trying to achieve? We (here on hfps) know why they sent the email, i agree it could have been more targeted perhaps, note i received the email and have used N&SI to save up the school fees (withdrawing every term), and ill continue to do so…

          • Char Char says:

            People have the right not to receive these emails and opt out, combine this with the fact that I also unsubscribed about 10 times to their newsletters they do have issues with email communications.

          • ChrisC says:

            You can opt out of receiving emails such as marketing ones but you can’t opt out of ones involving the management of your account.

            An email advising you of possible breaches of or changes to the T&Cs is under the latter categoty.

          • Char Char says:

            Why add in an unsubscribe link, I have not even used this NSandI rubbish and got the same email, now creation is gone (used legitimately) and now they send this rubbish I will probably cancel the metal card.

    • Andy says:

      Are you using Curve simply to earn a few miles/points while legitimately depositing into NS&I? That’s what they promote, not cash recycling…

    • Char Char says:

      Actually as there is an unsubscribe button and I have unsubscribed about 10 times there is grounds to a complaint to the ICO

      • Phil W says:

        There really isn’t for Account Management communications, but knock yourself out.

    • BuildBackBetter says:

      Are you Ali by any chance?

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