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The HfP chat thread – Thursday 14th October

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Comments (454)

  • Talay says:

    £25k of Etihad Travelbank expiring in May 2022.

    They seem to refuse to extend.

    Normal travel is to Asia, mainly on LHR to BKK.

    Any ideas to find value before they expire ?

  • Mouse says:

    Will anyone be cancelling their Core by Clare Smyth booking now that it’s been removed from the Amex Plat £200 offer (see Anthony’s comment on the chat thread last night)?

  • Memesweeper says:

    It was asked yesterday why I’m confident that MCOL against Creation for the unfulfilled Free Night will succeed. The basis of my claim will be the terms of the cancelation mid-year having taken the annual fee and not providing the Free Night causes a significant imbalance between the rights of the trader and consumer to the detriment of the consumer. The fact the T&Cs allow it does not make it lawful under the Consumer Rights Act.

    IANAL, I am confident but by no means certain.

    • LS says:

      Also the cost of them fully defending it will far outweigh the cost of settling.
      But unlike FOS, you will be liable for court fees and very minor costs if you lose. If creation make a reasonable offer, and you refuse, the judge may decide you are being unreasonable, and award creation their full costs from the offer point on. These risks are too high for me to not do FOS first.

      • Memesweeper says:

        Absolutely correct. No reasonable offer refused. Shutting the door, with no offer made, is not reasonable. I’m also not complaining about *everything* I think they’ve done wrong, but on the narrow point outlined above. If I loose I’ll report back here … and launch my crowdfunding for costs. 😁

        • YC says:

          Any reason to go mcol before fos?

          • Memesweeper says:

            Quicker, and I don’t see anything in the FOS principles that upholds the Consumer Rights Act. The consumer rights act is very one sided: the provisions I care about protect consumers doing business with suppliers on their standard terms if those terms are unfair. That’s what I’m seeking to rely on.

          • Jimbob says:

            I’ve found for rather toothless, judges less so

          • Lady London says:

            They are not mutually exclusive.

        • Lady London says:

          And a reasonable offer would also include a credit/cash for the % value of any partially accrued free nights as well. Not just any fully earned nights. Regardless of card annual anniversary date and Creation closure date.

          This of course presupposes Creation can’t make any accusations of misuse or breach of terms stick in the case of claims.

          • the_real_a says:

            What is the breach though? T&Cs accommodate cash like transactions, there are no minimum deposit limits with third parties and the account does not have upper £ limits with regards to spend.

      • JDB says:

        The cost of settling is quite high as they might need to offer that to everyone and their legal costs will be de minimis in the context of their legal budget. I think that they will either cave early on for the sake of the effort/time required and bad PR, but if they decide to play hardball, unfortunately, they will probably win. It may seem a bit unfair in a lay sense but not sufficiently unfair in a legal sense to overturn the contract, at least for those with more distant anniversaries. The terms obviously aren’t a surprise to anyone, they just don’t like them being applied.

      • Lady London says:

        Not at mcol, LS. That protection is one of the reasons MCOL exists.

        • JDB says:

          @LL some of the non arguments being put forward in this instance are potentially vexatious, would take up unreasonable or disproportionate amounts of court time for such a small claim so there is a chance, albeit very small of costs and a higher chance of losing your own costs. More work is needed if anyone is going to present a decent case.

          • Lady London says:

            Unlikely, JDB.
            Claims for pro rata return of annual fee would be pretty much the minimum Creation must pay across the board.

            Claims for fully earned free nights, regardless of how early in the year the spend required is completed, also seem fair.

            Partially earned nights I think a good case can be made too.

            All in the light of the unfair balance of contract terms Memesweeper mentions and the unreasonableness of Creation’s actions (unilateral closure with unfair result for customer, general unreasonableness/ poor performance of Creation etc)

            I do agree JDB that anyone Creation can fairly say has breached the terms of the cards or performed other financial misdeeds doesn’t have a chance of getting these. Unfortunately Creation’s actions have still unfairly negatively affected a potentially large number of ‘normal’ customers who haven’t misused the card and haven’t breached its terms

          • JDB says:

            @Lady London for all the affected people, I hope you are right, but what you say sounds very utopian and is unfortunately not borne out by the multiple precedents with various card companies who offer bonuses/benefits at anniversary (even with hitting some prior qualification target), irrespective of who cancels the agreement.

        • LS says:

          No. Small claims track (which is what MCOL is) allow the following costs to be borne by the losing party:
          1) the fixed costs attributable to issuing the claim
          2) expenses such as court fees, reasonable travelling expenses, the cost of staying overnight if relevant, and up to £95 for loss of leave or loss of earnings if unpaid time off work was taken to attend the court hearing.
          3) the same is allowed for any witnesses called, as long as it was necessary for them to attend the hearing [UNLIKELY]
          4) any expert’s fees, limited to £750 per expert [UNLIKELY]

          On the small claims track parties ‘bears their own legal costs unless they can satisfy the District Judge that the loser has behaved unreasonably’.

          Taken from:
          https://www.moneyclaimsuk.co.uk/litigant-in-person-costs-and-expenses.aspx

          • jack charlton says:

            “That anyone Creation can fairly say has breached the terms of the cards or performed other financial misdeeds doesn’t have a chance of getting these. ”

            It is very pertinent to note that the letter sent to all those whose accounts are being closed, did not mention or infer any breach of terms, which would allow immediate closure, but was done using the 60 day notice period. There have been many comments stating that creation reps said the closure was a business decision. (don’t have the letter in front of me to see what was said).

            Shaky ground if there then latterly try to say it was because of a breach of terms.

  • Mark says:

    Hi, has anyone on here got real life experience of dealing with the provider of the Amazon Platinum Mastercard provider NewDay? Looking for a new non-Amex product and initially thought this would be a good one given the amount we put through Amazon, but the majority of the reviews for NewDay’s customer service are shocking! Thanks

    • Crafty says:

      NewDay is the issuer for Aqua as well. I’ve had an Aqua card for 7 years that offers 0.5% cashback on all spend including FX which is fee-free. I’ve had no particular issues – sometimes the card is blocked if I don’t warn them I’m going abroad. It takes about 10 minutes to get through on the phone usually.

    • Reney says:

      They have blocked my card several times but the text for you to confirm the transaction is ok doesn’t come through about half the time. So I have to call to get it unblocked, but the number they give opened only typical ish office hour. I do get through ok and the staff will sort me out.I don’t love the IT system.

      If you are just normal spending it should be fine, you wouldn’t be calling them often.

    • Andrew says:

      Yes.

      They sent marketing information to me for their “bad debt” Aqua card without my consent (I held a Debenahams Gold Card with a no-marketing indicator). It was slopey shoulders all the way trying to identify why NewDay would market a finance professional with a beautiful credit history, and who was an existing customer, a product for a dodgy customers. They blanked me, and it was an absolute nightmare trying to get them to accept responsibility for it, they actually told me that they don’t recognise the ICO and will only deal with FOS for complaints.

      I eventually had to complain to the FOS that the NewDay didn’t recognise the ICO. I finally got an apology and token compensation credited to my Debenhams account.

  • QwertyKnowsBest says:

    Good morning. Travelling through LHR BA Club World today. Anyone know what lounges BA are now using?

    Thanks

    • KP says:

      The Usual Galleries south and north are open

    • Steve says:

      What’s the situation in the lounges , is it back to self serve or still the table service?

      • Rhys says:

        Mix of both – soft drinks self serve, food and alcohol delivery

        • Tim says:

          I’m in Galleries LHR now and all drinks are now self serve, hot, cold and alcohol. Sadly the champagne hasn’t come back so it’s still sparkling wine. And cans of – Heineken!

          • Nick says:

            T5B should be reopening from today as well, unless it’s changed in the last couple of days. Can’t remember the hours but it definitely won’t be all the way to 10pm.

            Very subjective I know, but for me the Hattingley sparkling wine is actually an upgrade on the usual GC champagne, it’s far nicer and I choose that if they have both available. I’m just sorry they’ve cheapened themselves so much with spirits, Smirnoff Red instead of Ciroc is not an upgrade!

          • Andrew says:

            Presumably that Galleries Club – and Galleries First continues to serve champagne?

  • SteveJ says:

    Any updates from people on payments showing up on their creation account? I made payments on 11th and 12 Oct that still do not show. I have raised this with them via secure message on the app.

    • Reney says:

      no show for payments made last Friday (8th).

    • Harry T says:

      Paid off my creation balance yesterday and it cleared today. They also blocked me yesterday for contributing to Che’s retirement fund, so I had to call to get the card unlocked.

    • Mr. AC says:

      Called them yesterday about this. They said they’re aware of the issue and it will get sorted (with fees refunded etc) without the need to call or contact them. An SMS that they’re having issues would have been nice!

      • BuildBackBetter says:

        I’d be worried if the statement was generated and my payment wasn’t reflected. The last thing we need is damage to our credit profile.

        • Andrew says:

          Exactly. There’s a high risk of automated updates to the credit reference agencies with incorrect data, then shut down the UK business with no recourse for complaints.

      • Tom H says:

        Same call from me (payment made 9/10/21 3k not cleared £12 fee for late payment) told known issue but would need to call to get fee taken off. I also paid 200 yesterday which cleared today!

      • Guernsey Globetrotter says:

        It’s definitely a problem with credit payments made to their cards this weekend. I have two made to an IHG & Marriott on the 11th that aren’t showing yet but one I made yesterday to another IHG is still pending with Virgin but credited to the Creation account today! Typical Creation chaos tbh…

    • Chrisasaurus says:

      I paid Barclaycard on 8th, still not showing up there either

  • Duncan Stevenson-Price says:

    I just had 10,000 points credited to my IHG Rewards Club account with the description “Goodwill Points”.

    Not sure why… Could it be related to the weird account block that many of us had recently?

    • ChrisC says:

      Just checked and I have 10k points as well.

      Quite possibly but IHG really need to improve their comms on this issue. A “we’re sorry for any inconvenience here’s 10k points” email would help for a start!

      Reading here and on flyer talk people have been given all sorts of reasons as to why their accounts were blocked. All of them credible in their own way but not credible to have happened all at once.

    • Andrew says:

      +1. Must be because of the outage at the weekend. I did contact them about it, did anyone else that got the points contact them?

      • Duncan Stevenson-Price says:

        I contacted them and got reinstated, though there was no mention of any goodwill points being awarded on the call.

        Goodwill really only has the desired effect if you tell people you’re doing it. If I wasn’t waiting for a stay to credit I may never have looked and never have noticed!

        • ChrisC says:

          Well I only checked because you posted!

          I would have spotted it eventually when updating my spreadsheet for a redemption I cancelled to make sure they reconciled against my account.

    • Paul says:

      I still can’t get into my account to check despite a phone call and two online chats.

    • Tracy says:

      +1 🙂

    • Benilyn says:

      Same got 10k & a locked account (unlocked after a phone call)

  • Js says:

    Good morning
    Can I use the Amex £200 dining offer to buy a gift card?
    I will not be in the UK until after Decenber!

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