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The HfP chat thread – Thursday 28th October

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We are running this daily chat thread on Head for Points during the coronavirus outbreak.

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Comments (447)

  • Blair says:

    Amex Travel spend £400, £100 back. Is this cumulative? I haven’t spent anything with Amex Travel yet as still weighing up whether the hotel chain spend offers are better for me

  • Simon says:

    The £50 off £200 offer and £100 off £400 offer spending at Marriott , both are loaded on my card , does this mean if I stay at a applicable hotel under both offers spending the correct amount , will I get both credits

    • Andrew says:

      They each have a different list of participating properties, so no.

      • QFFlyer says:

        But if he picks one that’s on both lists, then yes.

        • meta says:

          They don’t overlap apart from Sheraton Heathrow and that might be a mistake and it won’t trigger.

          • QFFlyer says:

            Ah, fair enough

          • Paasan69 says:

            If adding Sheraton Skyline Heathrow to the list was a mistake I would’ve expected AmEx to have corrected this error a while back. I have a few nights booked at this hotel in November and I’m expecting the offer to trigger on my AmEx MB card.

          • BuildBackBetter says:

            @Paasan69, Amex cannot remove it even if it’s a mistake as some users could’ve booked hotels based on the initial list.

    • MisterE says:

      We have these offers across multiple cards/supps. You can split a stay across two cards and both offers work

      • meta says:

        @Paasan69 of course, but you might have to argue with Amex about it…

        • Paasan69 says:

          @BuildBackBetter & @meta AmEx has removed several restaurants from the £200 dining offer. I would have expected the list would’ve been revised shortly after the offer was made available should this hotel not be included. We will see when time comes (mid-Nov). I will report back here.

  • JL says:

    Morning, quick question to put my mind at rest – or indeed scramble to get a pre departure test.

    We are returning to England as a family from Greece; U.K. resident and parents fully vaccinated, one child age 13 – not yet ‘fully’ vaccinated. I thought no need for a pre departure test (as it seems per that 5-17 yr olds do not need if uk resident). BA travel docs cannot verify him for online check in as I think it thinks he needs a pre departure test – which has me worried…

    Will happily check in at the airport, but just wanted to confirm with the collective HFP minds that they agree no need for a pre departure test for a child age 13.

    Many thanks in advance.

    • MrDr says:

      Under 18 travelling with family do not need a day 2 test. There is no need for a pre departure test to come to the UK at all.

      • TGLoyalty says:

        U18’s full stop are considered “fully vaccinated” Doesn’t matter who they are travelling with.

        No pre departure test required and can take day 2 LFT.

        • JL says:

          Thank you – that is my reading of the rules as well, that an under 18 qualifies as fully vaccinated and therefore does not need the test.
          However, BA staff at the airport in Crete are saying otherwise – which is a shame for us! Will try again on the travel docs webpage and select ‘fully vaccinated’ this time, but it is probably simpler/safer for us to get a test done locally.

          Anyone else returned from Greece recently with kids and had a similar response from BA?

          Thanks again

          • Paul says:

            I went with my toddler (2yo) and on the BA travel docs page for her, there was an option for “exempt” and I just added a comment that she’s under 18. All approved fine.

            On our PLF, I listed toddler on my PLF and then a separate PLF for my wife.

            No issues at all though check-in etc.

          • AJ says:

            As per Paul’s response, we are returning from Greece tomorrow as a family. On the BA form just sect for your child that they are exempt and state – child and their age. Ours were approved within a couple of hours.

            Definitely no test before departure – hopefully by completing the BA form as stated, it will come back verified for you all – good luck – it took me 90 minutes to sort out all the forms and ordering tests yesterday!!

          • JL says:

            Thanks all – I had filled in the BA form, stating exempt due to age and residence, but the form was rejected. I think I should have put ‘fully vaccinated’ (as the travel docs guidance says under 18s are treated as such) but there is no way to change this now … which means I am at the mercy of the airport check in staff (who according to BA who called their team on the ground, think a negative test is required). A pain – but we will get this done just in case.

            Thanks for the replies.

  • Anna says:

    Good morning. Regarding the Amex offer Morrison’s 10% back on one transaction over £30. Expiry date initially says 27th October then says spend to be billed by 3rd Nov and at top still says ‘“7days to use”. Think the 27/10 probably just a mistake? Thanks

    • BuildBackBetter says:

      To be on safer side, I completed my purchases. 24th on Virgin card; [email protected] [email protected] on same card within 3 days and on shops away today. Waiting for the Amex one.

    • Tw33ty says:

      I’ve got the Morrison’s 10% Amex offer, but it’s multiple uses. Mines is also use up to 3rd

      • GaryE says:

        Just spoken with Amex on chat – and the end date is billed by 03/11 and includes all transactions upto that date. The 27/10 is an error – I presume this applies to all accounts and not just mine.

  • Britbronco says:

    Normally Che top-ups from Solly show on the dashboard immediately as pending, than change to applied 1-2 days later. I made a top-up yesterday and it’s still not showing at all. Any one else having this issue? I was planning to pay it off as soon as visible, I.e while still pending, but I’m wary of putting my account into credit for more than 1 day

    • Anna says:

      They can take a couple of days to show up at all IME, then another day or so to clear. From recent comments they are generally slower than ever atm and also have been applying charges due to their own delays which people are having to claim back.

    • Reney says:

      Did 2FA came on when you topped up? For me if yes then it goes straight to pending, if not it takes a few days.

      • Britbronco says:

        Thanks Reney, unusually for Creation there was no 2FA this time.
        I could see it has been deducted from my available balance, so I’ve just made a payment to bring my availability back to the credit limit.

    • Chrisasaurus says:

      Why you concerned they’ll close your account 🙄

    • thehornets says:

      Same for me.

      However, Whilst the payment is not showing as a line in your statement, you may see that your ‘available balance’ actually includes the amount of your Che top up. To me, that gives me the OK to pay it off.

    • Guernsey Globetrotter says:

      I did 3 such to Che on 3 different cards yesterday. Same 2FA process on all was carried out. 2 are showing in the pending (shadow balance of credit available) and one is not. Their IT is [email protected]

  • Andrew says:

    What a mess that offer is this time – yes the text on the main screen says 27/10 (already passed) but T&Cs say 3/11. And headline says “every time” but the text says *an* eligible transaction, suggesting only once – I think it’s the former as per previous versions of this offer.

  • Jody says:

    What do people think is the likelihood of any decent hotel discounts for black Friday (seeing as that seems to be the in thing now)?

    Need to book a weekend in London in January, wondering whether to start looking now or hold off for a bit.

    • planeconcorde says:

      Book a flexible rate now. If a better offer comes up on Black Friday then cancel and rebook.

    • Andrew says:

      I think Black Friday is a bit 2015 – after a few years everyone realised that the promotions offered were the same as the ones offered throughout the year. Wouldn’t plan your life around it.

    • Jeff Greene says:

      Dunno. Will have to wait and see

    • Peter K says:

      Some black Friday deals cannot be matched/beaten any other time of year. Most are just another sale with a typical sale discount.
      As someone said, book flexible now and then see what comes up.

  • Brighton Belle says:

    I had the Creation letter telling me account was to be closed. Since then a few hundred points was on my last statement from supplementary card spend. These haven’t been sent to IHG. Is Creation just walking way from all their account responsibilities subsequent to the closure letter?

    • Pete M says:

      Discussed at length yesterday and the day before. Short summary is we don’t know yet…

    • Reney says:

      If you check out the chat from the last few days, the comments are along the lines:
      1. some people’s points posted but it took 7 days plus
      2. at least one person called creation and they said it won’t post if you received the closure letter
      3. One other person called and was told points would post to IHG.

      Some people have taken screen shot in case needs to claim. Someone else got shut down early yesterday and might be link to claiming back late fees which itself was caused by creation.

      • Anna says:

        I logged a complaint yesterday telling creation I want either my free night whihc should have posted this month or £711/70k points to book my chosen night at the Kimpton Seafire next July. We’ll see what they say! I am thinking now that I’ll submit separate complaints for all the issues.

        • JDB says:

          @Anna if the purpose of making separate complaints is to create 3 x FOS fees, it won’t work like that and may disadvantage you. When you make the FOS complaint it asks whether you have made previous complaints so they can link them. Obviously it is different if you are making some for you, some for H. Additionally, as all the complaints relate to the same issue – the manner of the closure of your account(s) and resulting lost fee/loss of benefits, you risk the later complaints not being considered if they have already been determined; i.e. neither the firm, nor FOS will consider the same complaint twice. It is a little complicated as you don’t yet know for sure what they are going to do and different people are getting different information from CS, but you can make the complaint with x numbered points and say it is based on info given to you, but you will update if that changes. My personal view is that people should wait until after 3 Dec so you know exactly what the position is before making a complaint. It will add further delay, but since it will be maybe eight months before an FOS decision, an extra month doesn’t change much, but making a complaint ‘blind’ based on something that theoretically might happen doesn’t really help. There is of course the possibility they will cave!

          • Anna says:

            Appreciate all that, but the free night certificate should have been awarded this week so they might ask why I waited to query it, especially as Creation hasn’t notified me that I won’t be receiving it! Additionally, I was genuinely intending to use it for my holiday so want the issue addressing asap (taking into account the current delays in the system, of course).

          • JDB says:

            Yes, for that one, once you know they aren’t crediting it, seems fine to get on with it, unless you think that might affect your account in the next month or so. One thing to be aware of is asking for the pro-rata refund and the anniversary voucher. I know it doesn’t always seem to be how it works in practice, but the full terms (which I haven’t seen but you should have and upon which FOS will rely) rather than the abbreviated ones apparently suggest that you pay the fee in advance but the fee triggers the voucher so you effectively get it in arrears, i.e. they are tied; that was the FOS view.

          • Froggee says:

            Hey JDB – I don’t know if there are fuller terms then these but below is almost identical to what I was sent with my black card and these are surely the ones that matter. The printed version does not have the typos though! The credit agreement is much more detailed but does not reference the free night/annual fee etc.

            The wording is wonderful as the free night should be credited on the anniversary of the account opening whereas the fee is charged in the first statement period. Therefore it should be possible for most in a normal year to get the free night and then promptly cancel before the fee hits. The only wrinkle is that Creation do not define “good order”. However my account is in good order in that I owe no money and I can still use my cards (I have chosen not to).


            Rob has actually provided guidance on this! I believe he spoke to Creation at the time although I don’t think he explicitly stated this.


            As per Ts and Cs:

            Anniversary night voucher
            On the anniversary of your account opening, so long as your account remains active, you will earn one anniversary night voucher anniversary night voucher to redeem at any IHG property, provided you make annual pPurchases totalling a minimum of £10,000. Annual purchases are calculated from your account opening date to the day before the first anniversary, and thereafter on an annual basis. This offer is subject to your IHG Rewards Club Premium Credit Card account remaining in good order.

            Account fee
            Your IHG Rewards Premium Credit Card carries an annual fee of £99, which is applied to your account in the first statement period, and annually thereafter. The annual fee is payable in full in the month it is applied to your account, and if not settled in full by the due date, will attract interest at your standard purchases rate.

          • JDB says:

            @Froggee – that article of Rob’s was from 2017 and there was a 2018 Ombudsman that give a different view which isn’t binding, but a good guide. In that decision, it refers to some wording/terms that are different/more extensive. I don’t have these, but if Creation will rely on them, you really want to read them before making a complaint. You are right to wait; enough canaries have already been sent in to help you.

          • Froggee says:

            Hi JDB – I read that 2018 decision (DRN2242979, yes?). The nuance on that was the complainant wanted the free night voucher when £10k was spent. The Ombudsmen commented that the condition was it was awarded on the anniversary of the account and the complainant had signed up to this and if another fee had been charged then so be it. If Creation charge the fee on the anniversary date at the same point they credit the voucher to IHG then it would be tricky but they do not. So I have reached the anniversary with an active card. Several days have passed but no annual fee charged. The further two page terms and conditions referred to by the Ombudsmen are the ones I linked to. The complainant was going off the colour leaflet that came with the card and not the two page Ts & Cs. The only ambiguity in my case is the meaning of “good order” which in the absence of any formal definition by Creation comes down to common sense. For me, this really is about the principle now. Creation were inept and got rinsed by a lot of people but this doesn’t give them the right to break their own Ts & Cs. I suspect I will also put in a DSAR in a couple of months time if no further news (before FOS) as I’d be very keen to see if there is any further analysis of my spending or if it is merely a blanket decision taken on all unprofitable customers.

          • Anna says:

            Froggee – my understanding of “good order” would be that I didn’t have any outstanding balance or charges on an account.

          • JDB says:

            @Froggee I think you are probably right; I don’t see the link, in the terms, between the £10k, the anniversary and the fee to get the voucher, but that FOS decision seems to suggest you need all three:-

            “So under this scheme Mr G wouldn’t receive a free night until the year was up and he’d paid a new annual fee.”

            [the Ombudsman disagreed with the case handler who suggested they should refund the fee!]

            Re “in good order” I think that is intended to mean not in default and they may struggle to extend that to mean more, but the drafting of that whole doc is quite casual. There is a link to the general IHG Rewards terms which are super unfriendly, but I think it would be huge stretch to invoke those.

          • Rui N. says:

            @Anna, it’s a credit card, you can have a balance on it… as long as you pay the minimum amount each month, they can’t say you are not in good order for having a balance.

          • Anna says:

            Rui, yes, apologies, I just meant any money owing them which should already have been paid. When people say, “carrying a balance” they often mean rolling it over from one month to the next (which we don’t do on HFP!)

        • Lady London says:

          You have travel booked to that hotel Anna which you can prove and for years travelling to that location to very high end hotels has been your habit. You also have adjacent nights in the Kimpton Seafire booked by other means.

          For thr sake of everyone please go after Creation and get them their just desserts. A reprehensible company.

          • Craig Vassie says:

            I’ve had this card since inception, and have always conducted the account in “good order”. I’ve never ever had a card cancelled by the issuer before, and my direct complaint to Creation’s MD was just brushed off.
            I currently owe Creation some £8000+ for Sep / Oct spend, which I would have normally have paid off in full on 12th November. They owe me 26K points which they haven’t transferred to IHG, so preventing my Spire renewal, plus a free night for spending over £10K this membership year, plus a partial refund on the membership fee.
            To stay in temporary “good order”, my inclination is to pay off the minimum for the time being, and see if they honour their obligations. I’ll be putting in a DSAR in early January. I can’t see the FOS being at all decisive in their actions.
            Perhaps a user group employing a single legal adviser might be of some use? Thoughts?

          • SteveJ says:

            @Craig, do you really want to be racking up interest on such a large balance?

          • JDB says:

            @Craig Vassie can’t see the purpose of creating interest charges for yourself?? There are plenty of exceptions to DSAR requests around credit, but even if you got some information, where does it get you? Your account will be closed by then anyway and it is clear the firm isn’t required to give reasons for closure. The points may get transferred eventually and as for the rest, already covered at length.

          • Anna says:

            Craig Vassie – Creation will come after you for the interest and legally they will be in the right (I can even see JDB and me agreeing on this). It will also look better if you end up going to the FOS that you’ve fulfilled all obligations on your side.
            One thing I am definitely doing is making sure I don’t owe Creation any money at the end of this.

      • stevenhp1987 says:

        I got shutdown yesterday – I never had any late fees due to missed payments etc. I had already paid my balance off before the outage!

      • Nick_M says:

        On your statement it tells you how many points you have earned from your spending that month… if they don’t follow across then surely that is a fairly straightforward complaint. I will most likely leave everything to December, see what actually happens and then make a complaint if necessary.

        Frustratingly I won’t be able to hit the £10k in time (and don’t want to MS) but am well over the pro-rata amount… given that I have hit the target for the last few years and my spending is similar this year then hopefully this will be a reasonable argument to put forwards.

        • Craig Vassie says:

          Thank you all for your kind comments. I will continue to keep a close eye on things. It becomes a point of principle not to let Creation screw you when you haven’t done anything wrong. I’m quite prepared to take them to Court.

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