BA 946 to Düsseldorf cancelled 26/05

[sloth]

Hi, is anyone able to check why the above was cancelled please? We boarded and left the gate (late) due to plane arriving late and them having to wait to disembark some disabled passengers before they could clean and let us on etc. so we boarded an hour late, and then just after we departed the gate we sat on the tarmac for 15 mins before the captain announced the flight was cancelled due to Düsseldorf airport cancelling the flight plan as they weren’t confident we could get there before their curfew… so back we go to gate to disembark…I guess I’m asking if anyone can confirm this as I know some people can see the relevant data. Flightradar24 interestingly shows the flight status as unknown

We were only going to Düsseldorf for the weekend and they have only managed to reroute the outbound for Sunday afternoon and we were returning Monday evening anyway so we can’t see the point in going now for this weekend. I haven’t currently accepted this

Couple of questions though as i couldn’t get through on the helpline obv…

Can we change the booking to a different destination? I know we can change the date

If I could have booked Eurostar tickets to get us to Paris first thing in the morning with onward travel to Düsseldorf then I guess BA would have to pay for those us they have duty to get us to our destination? Hypothetical as Eurostar sold out as I was looking…but handy to know if this happens again

We can claim for compensation? as we haven’t reached our destination and have gone home…

Thanks in advance for any advice/help

[SamG]

Expertflyer doesn’t show the codes anymore but it’s likely knock on effect of their IT meltdown so definitely try get your EU compo!

BA will reroute you to a destination within 300 miles but they will only reroute the affected flight, not both legs of return

They’d have paid out for any rerouting option you could find. If you don’t fly the outbound then you’d need to make sure they protected your return

[sloth]

Thanks SamG, very helpful. I’ve now seen I can change the dates in MMB for up to a year out but to change the destination I’ll need to call it seems. I’m assuming I can change the destination AND the dates up to a year?

Yea is definitely a consequence of the IT meltdown but just worried they will try and wriggle out of the compensation as the ultimate reason given was Düsseldorf ATC cancelling the flight plan as too late due to their curfew. Although that of course was because of all the associated problems that delayed us in the first place

Thanks again

[JDB]

@sloth everything @SamG says is correct. It’s definitely better to rebook if you can so as to avoid the no show or refund argument vs compensation. The BA 300 mile rule is strictly interpreted in terms of distance. You may possibly find that MMB provides better date options (but obviously not destination) than they will offer on the telephone where they are more likely to stick to their 14 day and ticket validity guidance.

[JDB]

JDB wrote:

@sloth everything @SamG says is correct. It’s definitely better to rebook if you can so as to avoid the no show or refund argument vs compensation. The BA 300 mile rule is strictly interpreted in terms of distance. You may possibly find that MMB provides better date options (but obviously not destination) than they will offer on the telephone where they are more likely to stick to their 14 day and ticket validity guidance.

You should apply for the compensation anyway, although you have already work out BA’s probable initial response.

[SamG]

You can only change the destination to travel in the next 14 days and if your return flight isn’t cancelled then they won’t change the origin of that one. So might not be so useful for you

You can also travel to Düsseldorf in the next 14 days in the same cabin or up to the end of your ticket validity (1 yr from booking) in the same booking class, although as @JDB says MMB may be more generous than that in terms of dates

Not sure it is of relevence to you (especially on this type route!) but EU right is to travel at a date of your convenience but if that goes past the BA ticket validity they won’t rebook and they’ve won at CEDR on this issue too. So you’d need to leave this ticket, buy a new ticket and then MCOL them for the cost.

[sloth]

Thanks JDB, yes I can’t be bothered to argue about changing the dates AND destination so will just rebook for another weekend in the next year via MMB

Indeed I will be claiming compensation and the associated costs of getting home etc (we stupidly got the tube rather than a cab as I wasn’t thinking properly) but I know they can be awkward even though it’s a direct result caused by their fault.

Thanks again both

[sloth]

SamG wrote:

You can only change the destination to travel in the next 14 days and if your return flight isn’t cancelled then they won’t change the origin of that one. So might not be so useful for you

You can also travel to Düsseldorf in the next 14 days in the same cabin or up to the end of your ticket validity (1 yr from booking) in the same booking class, although as @JDB says MMB may be more generous than that in terms of dates

Not sure it is of relevence to you (especially on this type route!) but EU right is to travel at a date of your convenience but if that goes past the BA ticket validity they won’t rebook and they’ve won at CEDR on this issue too. So you’d need to leave this ticket, buy a new ticket and then MCOL them for the cost.

Yes as I mentioned, MMB is allowing me to rebook up to a year from now so will just take that option. We were only going for the long weekend as somewhere to go that wasn’t too far for 3 days and that we had not been to before so not interested in fighting them for longer dates 🙂

Thanks

[SamG]

Yep that’s what I thought . Advice might be relevant who missed a break and is tied to school hols etc, I saw flights like Faro and Malaga cancelled and some of the summer prices for those are eye-watering so more incentive to get BA to cough up!

[JDB]

@sloth – you may be lucky as long as your flight is included in their ‘pot’ of IT cancellations. In the past, with these mass self inflicted disruptions they have paid everything reasonable very quickly ahead of other claims made in the previous weeks or months. They draft in extra people and give greater authority/discretion to allow claims within certain parameters.

[sloth]

SamG wrote:

Yep that’s what I thought . Advice might be relevant who missed a break and is tied to school hols etc, I saw flights like Faro and Malaga cancelled and some of the summer prices for those are eye-watering so more incentive to get BA to cough up!

Yes definitely and that’s why I was wondering regarding the rerouting destination options. Feel like we wasted half a day yesterday which is annoying but we were more fortunate than many on the flight who were German and trying to get home and now stuck overnight. Some of whom had been cancelled from Thursday also! So I felt sorry for them. At least we could just go home

Now to sort out travel insurance for the hotels etc

[sloth]

JDB wrote:

@sloth – you may be lucky as long as your flight is included in their ‘pot’ of IT cancellations. In the past, with these mass self inflicted disruptions they have paid everything reasonable very quickly ahead of other claims made in the previous weeks or months. They draft in extra people and give greater authority/discretion to allow claims within certain parameters.

Yes hopefully will be the case. We have been affected twice previously with similar BA IT issues but been stuck in our destination and had to extend by a day each time. They did always pay out fairly quickly tbh, so fingers crossed again this time. This is the first time we didn’t even get anywhere though. Well, more than 75 metres from the terminal 🙂

[Lady London]

SamG wrote:

You can only change the destination to travel in the next 14 days and if your return flight isn’t cancelled then they won’t change the origin of that one. So might not be so useful for you

You can also travel to Düsseldorf in the next 14 days in the same cabin or up to the end of your ticket validity (1 yr from booking) in the same booking class, although as @JDB says MMB may be more generous than that in terms of dates

Not sure it is of relevence to you (especially on this type route!) but EU right is to travel at a date of your convenience but if that goes past the BA ticket validity they won’t rebook and they’ve won at CEDR on this issue too. So you’d need to leave this ticket, buy a new ticket and then MCOL them for the cost.

They haven’t always won on validity in fact we have at least one report on here where BA comrehensively lost. Should be the case as 261 is a statute so should override any of BA’s ts and cs, and agents poorly instructed by BA so as to deny passengers these statutory rights etc.

However as the statute does not state a limit date however is clearly written generally in favour of the passenger’s right to choose, so far as the UK is concerned that does open a gap that leaves open for a general UK legal principle of reasonableness to be questioned – ie justified for the passenger’s own circumstances, why a longer date would be reasonable.

Much easier on long haul given the potential complications and restrictions ( and purpose of trip such as to attend an annual event or travel in a particular season) someone might have to rearrange a longhaul trip with all that could be involved, after an airline cancels a booked flight.

On short haul, as likely less complicated and short journey to make, stretching to more than around 1 year is likely to be much harder for most. But BA’s preference for, say, 14 days after or 3 days before, that we hear of quite often being quoted, has no legal basis as 261 rights used correctly outrank this.

[SamG]

True. But they’ve won enough for it not to be a slam dunk at CEDR. MCOL would be better.

I think someone who booked on say the Faro flight that was cancelled at T-355 using Avios and is a teacher so can only go in the school hols and so wants to be rebooked for a weekend in August would stand a good chance in front of a judge, seems pretty reasonable

[BA Flyer IHG Stayer]

Before you just rebook for another date in MMB check the prices of the new flights you want.

If it’s higher than your current fare then just change it.

If lower than cancel and rebook and take the savings.

As to tube / taxi there is an expectation that you’ll behave reasonably and not use it as a way to “stick it” to BA. The way I look at it is if you’d be happy to pay for a taxi even if the airline didn’t reimburse you then go for it. If not keep best keep your costs low to minimise your possible loss.

As to compensation I’m not sure this applies because (a) the cancellation was caused by DUS not approving the flight plan due to curfew and (b) since you chose not to fly you weren’t actually delayed.

[JDB]

SamG wrote:

True. But they’ve won enough for it not to be a slam dunk at CEDR. MCOL would be better.

I think someone who booked on say the Faro flight that was cancelled at T-355 using Avios and is a teacher so can only go in the school hols and so wants to be rebooked for a weekend in August would stand a good chance in front of a judge, seems pretty reasonable

@SamG this is where @LadyLondon and I always disagree. No litigation is ever ‘slam dunk’ and EC261 doesn’t necessarily ‘outrank’ the ticket validity argument; they work together and are looked at in context. Some ‘at the passenger’s convenience’ re-booking requests are clearly a separate trip rather than a re-booking of the old one. As you say, BA wins plenty and loses plenty as well. The thing to remember is that in any civil litigation both parties think and if professionals, are usually advised they each have a 60%+ chance of winning, but someone loses. People in these situations should avoid litigation at all costs as it can produce unexpected outcomes.

[sloth]

BA Flyer IHG Stayer wrote:

Before you just rebook for another date in MMB check the prices of the new flights you want.

If it’s higher than your current fare then just change it.

If lower than cancel and rebook an
As to tube / taxi there is an expectation that you’ll behave reasonably and not use it as a way to “stick it” to BA. The way I look at it is if you’d be happy to pay for a taxi even if the airline didn’t reimburse you then go for it. If not keep best keep your costs low to minimise your possible loss.

As to compensation I’m not sure this applies because (a) the cancellation was caused by DUS not approving the flight plan due to curfew and (b) since you chose not to fly you weren’t actually delayed.

I’m not sure i understand your last two points? Düsseldorf cancelled the flightplan as we were delayed leaving LHR. If we had left on time, or no more than an hour late then we would have made the flight before the curfew, therefore BA caused the delay and ultimate cancellation

Secondly the flight was cancelled. I didn’t choose not to go, they cancelled the flight so I couldn’t go. Rebooking me on a replacement flight two days later when I’m due to come home the following day is not acceptable in anyones book

[JDB]

@sloth what you say is logical but it isn’t how the system works. As I posted earlier, hopefully BA will include your flight in the big ‘pot’ of IT affected flights, but if they don’t, as @BAFlyerIHGStayer says, BA will probably win the argument on DUS curfew, assuming they can produce evidence thereof and what happened to make the flight too late to comply with the curfew probably won’t get considered; it’s just too complicated. Also, BA’s position re delay will be that rerouting was refused and the fact that was hopelessly impractical should matter, but doesn’t as you elected not to travel and a voluntary rerouting at a future date; that’s the payout.