BA – re-routing options following flight cancellation

[Chris_Bell]

Hi All,

I have a flight on BA that flies from London to Singapore, and then back to London from Hong Kong in December, with both legs in First (booked with a GUF voucher).  In between, we will be spending time elsewhere and have those flights booked already (but these are flexible).  For information, I have held BA Gold status with them for approximately 6 years now (was Silver and Bronze before) and have already requalified for next year.

BA have now kindly cancelled my return flight from Hong Kong to London, and offered no automatic suitable alternative.

My return flight is intended to leave in the evening on 18th December and arrive back into London very early (around 05:15) on Monday 19th December.  I have a requirement to be back in London on 19th December for work commitments.  We also have a non-cancellable hotel booked until 17th December, with the original intention being to arrive in Hong Kong on this day, and have some time there before flying back to London the following day.

On speaking to BA directly, they were only willing to offer 2 alternatives:

– The same flight the following day from Hong Kong, so departing late on 19th December and arriving in London early on 20th December
– An alternative flight on Qatar Airways that leaves earlier on 18th December and arrives at a similar time (about 1 hour later) to my original BA flight.  However, this flight is almost 22 hours long (compared to 13 hours on BA) with a lengthy nighttime stopover in Doha, and there is no First cabin onboard, only Business (which is what I paid for, in tandem with using my GUF voucher to upgrade to First).

I had suggested a 3rd option to BA, which is that I could instead fly back from Singapore on 18th, as they have a flight that operates at almost exactly the same times as my original flight.  I can quite easily fly to Singapore instead of Hong Kong for my return leg, at no additional cost.  However, BA have rejected this idea – saying that they have a 300 mile limit for flight re-directions and the distance between the 2 airports exceeds that.  (I do not think there even are any airports that BA flies to within 300 miles of Hong Kong).  In actual fact, my suggestion appears to be the cheapest of all available options, if BA are looking at this from a cost point of view.

I had thought that, under EU261 (or its equivalent naming in UK law following Brexit), the airline had to look at all options to re-route me at minimal inconvenience following a scheduling change/cancellation where there is not another equivalent flight in close proximity (even using other airlines if necessary, although that is not what I am asking here).  I certainly cannot see any mention of re-routing being subject to a 300 mile airport limit – so firmly assume that this is a BA policy.  My reference points have been EU261 Article 8, 1(b), and Chapter 5 of the CAA interpretation of EU261.

http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/Re-routing%20Guidance%20(CAP2155).pdf

Is anybody able to advise what my options are here, as the 2 that BA have suggested are not suitable or equivalent to my original itinerary.  I would obviously have preferred my original schedule, but my suggestion (re-route on the return leg from Singapore to London, instead of Hong Kong) would be acceptable to me in terms of causing minimal disruption, very little additional cost, and being able to preserve my original itinerary as closely as possible.

If this is something that BA should/have to consider, it would be greatly appreciated if advice could be provided on how best to approach this with them (who to speak to, what to quote, etc.)

If you need any further information, please do not hesitate to ask.

Many thanks in advance.

Kind regards,
Chris

[SamG]

I would say at this stage there is little chance of you freely entering HK for a night or transiting on seperate tickets by December anyway.

BA have offered you two reasonable options and won’t reroute from Singapore so in this scenario the realistic option is a refund and then buy yourself suitable flights (strongly advise against anything touching HK, worst case an airside transit on one ticket). You’ve still come out ahead as if BA operated the HK flight and you couldn’t get on it you’d be on the hook for that whereas now you can get a full refund.

[BJ]

Chis, are you planning to spend some time in HK under their rules? If not then you have a more fundamental problem than your current BA woes – you can only transit HK on a single ticket/PNR which you don’t have. In this situation best just take the refund and book new flights from SIN or wherever. If you are staying in HK for a while, then getting back to BA issue: SIN is not within 300 miles so it is highly unlikely you will ever find an agent who will let you start return from SIN. Have you asked if RJ is available from HKG via BKK and AMM, JAL via HND, Finnair, Malaysian, Sri Lankan? You really need to get them to check every option.

[ChrisC]

The 300 mile rule is BA policy and not part of the EU/UK261 regulation so it’s not something you can insist upon.

BAs obligation is to get you from HKG to LHR.

They appear from the app to selling F on HKG-LHR on the 17th.

Whilst not ideal surely it’s an option to consider if you wish to remain in F?

Note – I hadn’t considered the current entry restrictions which of course need to be considered.

[SamG]

ChrisC wrote:

The 300 mile rule is BA policy and not part of the EU/UK261 regulation so it’s not something you can insist upon.

BAs obligation is to get you from HKG to LHR.

They appear from the app to selling F on HKG-LHR on the 17th.

Whilst not ideal surely it’s an option to consider if you wish to remain in F?

Note – I hadn’t considered the current entry restrictions which of course need to be considered.

Yes – if you could go on the 17th then you can try calling your hotel directly to see if they can make an exception for you with the cancellation policy as it is so far in advance. However as I and others say – plans involving HK at the moment are best avoided!!

[Lady London]

I’d take the Qatar alternative they are offering and after the flight claim the 75% downgrade reimbursement

[Chris_Bell]

Hi,

Thank you all for your replies and useful information.

However, I have to disagree that BA have provided suitable alternatives.

The first option gets me in a day later, causes me huge inconvenience, and will incur additional costs (at the very least, one additional night’s stay).

The second option takes 50% longer, involves a stopover, and the same class of travel is not available throughout. Considering I paid a very generous sum for these tickets, as well as using a GUF voucher (supposedly to reward my loyalty to BA), it would completely defeat the point to accept a lower class of travel (I very rarely travel in First, but decided to due to this being a special occasion) where BA would only provide a very nominal refund of the fees/taxes (from my experience of being downgraded before, this was about £40).

If I was to accept a refund of the current fare, I would now end up paying almost double to re-ticket this trip 8 months after booking (there is a reason I always book early) and would lose my GUF voucher (this expires in January, and I will not be able to go anywhere else before that time).

I had thought this section of the CAA’s interpretation of Section 8 of EU261 would cover re-routing from a different airport:

<quote>
Suitability of re-routing options

6.5 In some cases, due to the specific circumstances of the passenger, for example if they need to arrive at their final destination on a certain date and by a certain time, the re-routing option identified by the airline may not be suitable for the passenger. Alternatively, the passenger may feel that the airline has not sufficiently explored the range of re-routing options in order to find the most suitable option for them. In such circumstances, the passenger may choose to re-route themselves and seek to claim back the expense from the airline. A dispute between the passenger and the airline may then arise.

6.6 The CAA’s view is that, if airlines follow the steps for identifying and offering rerouting to affected passengers described in Chapter 4, in the vast majority of cases airlines will be able to offer a reasonable re-route to affected passengers.
Passengers, for their part, should give the airline a reasonable opportunity to identify and offer a re-routing option.
<end quote>

I had considered that my suggestion to re-route from Singapore to London instead would be a suitable re-routing option – it is currently the cheapest of all options available (if looking at current ticket prices, across all routes and airlines suggested), departs and arrives at almost identical times, and is of similar distance (it is a few hundred miles more, but not that significant).

With respect to my stopover in Hong Kong – this was intended to be part of the trip; however I have resigned myself to it being unlikely this will happen. My flight currently to Hong Kong is flexible, so I can amend the booking to be at a different time and, if I still end up having to transit through Hong Kong, will change this ticket anyway.

I did have some follow up questions:

– As far as I am aware, it is now currently possible to transit through Hong Kong, as long as there are less than 24 hours between arriving and departing, you already hold an onward ticket to a destination where you will be granted entry, and do not have baggage to check (if this is still a rule come December, we are with other family members returning to London the day before we would, so can send our checked baggage home with them). Does anyone have a different view on this?

– If taking flights on another airline to cover this journey (Cathay, Qatar, etc.), I would earn significantly less Avios than I would on my original BA flights (around 40%). Would I be entitled to claim the difference (i.e. the amount I would have earnt if the original ticket had been flown)?

– With the Qatar re-ticketing option, Lady London mentioned a 75% downgrade reimbursement? Can you please explain this in more detail? All BA have offered so far is a refund of the taxes and fees between First and Business (I assume pro-rated for the section of the flight in Business), which is likely to only be a nominal amount.

– Is there any weight at all in my re-routing argument based upon EU261, above? As far as I can tell, the 300 mile rule is BA’s own internal regulation and may (depending on the situation) contravene their responsibilities under EU361? BA have cancelled at least one flight on over half my bookings this year, and I have had to accept various re-routings on different airlines just to get home (DXB-LGW, via DOH on QR; LHR-BIO, via Madrid both ways, on IB; MIA-LHR, via JFK on AA). All of these were originally direct flights, and some from different airports.

All cancellations/flight changes have been for the airline’s convenience, not mine; had I needed to make a change I would have had to re-ticket the itinerary at my own cost. After close to 10 years of almost exclusive loyalty to BA, I will actually feel a need to move on from them if they cannot amicably resolve this situation and perhaps only use them for Reward travel going forward!

Again, any useful feedback/recommendations based upon the above is most welcome.

Please let me know if you need any further information.

Many thanks.

Kind regards,
Chris

[JDB]

That’s a lot of questions. As stated previously BA’s 300 mile rule is a concession on their part, exceeding their statutory liability. There is nothing in the regulation requiring any airline to reroute you from a totally different destination which is why you can’t find that or the 300 miles one in the regulation.. An airline might choose to assist you in this way, but has no obligation to do so.

In respect of Avios, if you accept a rerouting you won’t be able to get the ORC (original routing credit) if that were to give you lower Avios/TP. You get that generally for on the day cancellations.

You say that the airline has made all the cancellations for its convenience which seems somewhat unfair as the HKG flights are being cancelled because the HK government has decided to remain largely closed for business or tourism, airline crews don’t want to fly there any more than passengers who are avoiding the risk of quarantine and sudden changes of policy. Unfortunately, you are in a slight corner because transiting HK was and remains over optimistic. BA will pay for your reasonable hotel/food costs in the event you have an extra night.

You are basically down to trying to persuade BA to provide you with a rerouting that you find acceptable or if not, making your own arrangements and then litigating to get your money back. Personally, I think that has a fairly high degree of risk as you have been offered reroutings that are not ideal but probably meet UK261 requirements.

[JDB]

@Chris_Bell also, for what it’s worth, if you did decide to litigate, it is unlikely you would get a judgment before you set off, so it would mean spending hard cash with no certainty as to whether you would get it back. If your business meeting on 19 Dec is so important, you must be at a relatively high level, so you need to bring your business and negotiation skills to the fore to do a deal with BA at whatever level, as that is realistically your only sensible option.

[polly]

@Chris
We are in the same position as you, and @SamG and HKIA has advised us of the current transit rules. It should get better by beginning of November to allow these world bankers to arrive without Quarantine x 3days.
BA have also cancelled ours on Nov 21st. Same situation as you, pleaded with them to allow us to fly from SIN. No joy. We are already in KUL, so would have been so easy to nip down to SIN. 300 mile rule. Have HUACA x 4 now.
CX J from KUL to HKG also moved to the day before. BA could send us back that same night, but like others have stated HKG transit on the SAME PNR was mandatory. I think @SamG thinks that we would be ok as CX are v good at interlining bags on different OW flights. We hope so. Also once you have the onward BP.
Am waiting to see will they open up HKG in the next few weeks, for the bankers and the Rugby on later in Nov. Fingers crossed. We don’t want or need to stay overnight there, just arrive, lounge, The Pier or Wing, then get on that plane. CX fly the same time as BA do. QR would suit too.
But, we have booked a back up flight. An aVios 300k OW F to DUB via LHR/LGW back on MH (not available to LHR, only LHR via DUB, weird!) if we can’t get transit in HKG, if we had to take the refund, then go to MCOL for the avios and cash difference. Obvs we can’t use our new 241 from KUL, either. Wonder if this is now a feasible plan, having read your note @JDB
Sorry @Chris to piggyback off your issue, but ours is just a month ahead of your dates. Optimist or what? Opinions on here sooo useful. Thanks all.

[Lady London]

@Chris_Bell you have been advised by some of the most knowledgeable posters on HfP.

@SamG knows Asia and especially Singapore and HongKong as a frequent flyer formerly based in the region.

@BJ knows Asia and is an extremely canny frequent flyer.

@JDB knows the legalities

If @SamG is tellng me there’s a high risk of not being allowed to do the night in Hong Kong and @BJ is telling me if it turns out only transit is allowed and in that case your current ticket won’t be useable aa it’s not a through ticket via Hong Kong, as it is a return leg starting in Hong Kong, then I’d listen up.

If you take the risk and keep this ticket departing from Hong Kong on BA, or amyone else they reroute you on and Hong Kong becomes inacessible to you using the ticket, then the airline does not owe you a refund and does not have to help you. So you, your business or your own insurance will have to get you home if you sticl to Hong Kong and that happens.

So you can take this chance to choose a free refund (though I know that then puts you in the position of the refund being less than other return travel cost).
Or you can roll the dice and stick with the Hong Kong departure and reroute, which will cost you nothing.

I’d pick 2x the hours and a stopover on Qatar Business sooner than BA First direct anyday. Qatar Business, although they’ve cut back, is at least equivalent to BA First. Slightly more robotic and not the top British cabin crew professionalism you get on some BA crews. But considerably better seating environment, plane, and catering.

As you’d be involuntarily rerouted BA is resppnsible for your overnight hotel and meals in Doha if needed (EU261). Accept the reroute and be seen to ask them to provide hotel “or should you send in your receipts”.

Keep it clear throughout that this is am involuntary rerouting, keep your boarding passes and on your return claim 75% of (what you paid less proper airport/UK APD/immigration/transit taxes). i.e.You claim 75% reimbursement for involuntary downgradw under UK261/UK261 of what you paid leas the foregoing. BA does try to offer less but legally they owe 75% and you will have rights to pursue them for it if needed.

You can fly some other time in First on BA and all but im name, QR Business is easily comparable.

BA is not going to give you Singapore. @JDB knows the rules and the legalities and like @SamG, he says they won’t do it and legally don’t have to. You could book a cheap return via Europe using Scoot from SIN as a backup if you want time to argue it out with BA or see what Hong Kong might change. You could also look at coming back on Finnair, for example frlm @BJ ‘s suggestions if they have flights but not as nice as Qatar – but Finnair comes under EU261 too which you’d potentially not have with QR.

Please let us kmow what you decide, and how it turns out!

[polly]

@Lady London,

Absolutely agree re Qatar J seats. Even their older J cabins are almost on a par with BA F. If Chris is on CX to HKG, he would have a good chance of the transit option, if CX through check his bags. Agree it’s a big risk atm. But this big financial world leadership gathering 2/3 November is possibly making them speed up their opening. Regardless of what China wants, it seems. So we might get some loosening up, even if it means better transit rules. We are not accepting an alternative flight until we see what happens in the next month or two. They did offer some of the options @BJ mentioned. It is a bummer with flights booked ages ago, in the hopes that HKG would open up same time as SIN.

Some good debates over on BT from the HKG based folks. Hope Chris gets it sorted to his satisfaction.

[BJ]

@Polly, keep chipping away at BA, I eventually got them to relent and book me BKK-HEL-EDI back but sadly still two stops out via LHR as Finnair fully booked many days. Have my doubts we’ll make the HEL connection but if not then it becomes Finnairs problem.

Just a reminder to you and others, one way flights from Asia (particularly BKK) back to UK on Sri Lankan used to be fantastic value, with very flexible (via phone) not that much more. No idea what their prices are like in current climate and low dollar FX. Lovely service and decent main meal in J.