My flights captain has been pinged by Track and Trace!

[NorthernLass]

There’s no need for the pilots and crew to “enter” the country they’re flying to. For many months the Cayman Islands maintained a twice-monthly airbridge with the UK to repatriate its citizens and a handful of other nationals, who were all subject to pre-authorisation and strict 14-day quarantine. They got round the issue of it not being practicable for airline staff to undergo quarantine by ensuring that they didn’t actually get off the aircraft for the duration that it was on the ground. It can’t have been a very comfortable return trip for any of them but it definitely happened!

[Thegasman]

That’s possible but they do get off in a lot of Caribbean destinations & spend a couple of days stuck in a hotel room. I believe this also applies to Barbados but will check with my colleague who’s OH is a 777 captain.

To operate the system you mention is incredibly inefficient as you have to dead head crew & certainly couldn’t be introduced on the fly.

[meta]

@thegasman That might be your view, but EU courts are clear via case law and numerous instances. Airlines should have crew on standby. This is plain and simple stupidity from BA to wait for the same pilot’s new test instead of finding a pilot straight away. I am sure they had other pilots who were cleared for another flight where they require a test which leaves much later. In any case in covid times, they should have pilots on standby ready and tested.

Re: £100 I didn’t say it was unreasonable, please read my post again. I said it’s not good enough to offer evoucher which can be used only on BA services. They should offer cash or prepaid card which is same as cash. Before covid they used to offer cash for such instances (via Mastercard prepaid card or similar).

[Jamesp21]

Update from BA. They’re refusing compensation due to COVID, see below:

“Your claim’s been refused because flight BA0255 on 20 December 2021 was delayed as a result of the global pandemic caused by COVID-19.

The COVID-19 pandemic is an external factor, which is beyond the control of the airline and is an “extraordinary circumstance”. It is not inherent in the normal activity of the airline and could not have been anticipated.

Your flight was delayed due to a member of the flight crew testing positive for Covid-19 on their pre-departure test, requiring a replacement flight crew member.

As you will appreciate, the health and safety of our passengers and of our crew is our priority.

Once the flight crew member was replaced, the flight was able to depart.

Since the delay of the flight was caused as a result of a global pandemic, in accordance with the provisions of EC Regulation 261/2004, I’m afraid this means you are not entitled to receive EU compensation on this occasion.”

Of course, I believe they’re just chancing it and hoping I’ll give up on it. What should be my next move? Thanks in advance.

[NorthernLass]

Was it actually a positive test or just someone pinged to isolate, I can’t remember?

Either way, I don’t think BA can rely on this excuse any more. Email asking them if this is their final position, then lodge a claim with CEDR or MCOL.

[meta]

Letter before action re-iterating all the legal points and stating that health issues of a crew member are not extraordinary circumstance and they should have a pilot on standby. On top, it is clear that the crew member didn’t have covid, so their defence is moot.T Quote the precedents (you can easily find them on ECJ website). Send it addressed to legal dep at Waterside. Give them a 21 days if you feel generous, but it’s been quite some time since the flight and your initial letter so I’d give them less. Then do a MCOL if they do not respond.

[Matt]

Covid isn’t an extraordinary circumstance when it’s been going on for 2 years. The requirement is also for them to make all reasonable efforts to avoid delays even for extraordinary circumstances – not having a spare crew member at their base isn’t meeting this by a long way.

[Jamesp21]

NorthernLass wrote:

Was it actually a positive test or just someone pinged to isolate, I can’t remember?

Either way, I don’t think BA can rely on this excuse any more. Email asking them if this is their final position, then lodge a claim with CEDR or MCOL.

I don’t fully remember their wording in the announcement on the Plane, but the guy went and got tested then say in the Terminal waiting for his result – he was sat amongst all the passengers there!

I shall email them now I ask if it is their final decision and take it from there. Thanks!

[Lady London]

I’m sorry I think this is extraordinary circs as the ping or test was new.

I can’t remember if exceptional circs applies only to flight cancellation or if exceptional circs can also exempt an airline from compo in the case of delay.

Duty of care, yes for this but I think they can just squeak away from having to pay compo as well.

[Rui N.]

Exceptional circumstances do apply in case of delay.

[meta]

I’m sorry, but not under EU/UK261. Crew member illness which covid is, is not classed as extraordinary circumstance. Precedents for this exist, rulings exist as well.

In any case, BA would also need to demonstrate that the crew member in question was not exempt from self-isolation rules for close contacts (if they were vaccinated they would be exempt for example).

Why they do not have another crew member on standby as required by law and EC/UK261? He could have been unable to fly for other reasons and also they allowed him to board later as a passenger meaning there was something else going on.

[NorthernLass]

It wasn’t even illness though, in the end, the captain was pinged and then went to take a test, which was negative. If he was legally required to isolate, getting a negative test at that point wouldn’t have made any difference (so it sounds as though this is BA policy, and nothing to do with covid regulations).

[Lady London]

Let us know what happens. I agree it was really poor not to have standby crew available at BA’s home hub (not that the law differentiates between home and outstations) but I think Omicron raging brought back epidemic conditions and exceptional circs.

Are you going for CEDR or MCOL on this one?

[Jamesp21]

Hi Lady London, this is the first time I’ve ever had to go via a different route so I really aren’t sure – which is the better option in your opinion?

[Lady London]

Jamesp21 wrote:

Hi Lady London, this is the first time I’ve ever had to go via a different route so I really aren’t sure – which is the better option in your opinion?

Up to you. On that date of travel with Omicron new and raging, if the facts are as they.appear I think BA may just get away with it.

In general if a claim is open and shut correct under the law then MCOL every time. As MCOL judge judges based on the law.

CEDR is riskier as some adjudicators do make perverse decisions. CEDR doesn’t have to only consider the law, they can decide the case based on their view of a reasonable fair result. So if you’re looking for a favour or you think your case is about what’s reasonable and fair and not just supported by the law you could do CEDR.

MCOL has fees although reasonable if your claim is not huge and you claim them back ao when you win you get them back from the other side as well as what you winning youe case gets you. Or if they settle pre-hearing you make sure youe fees are paid within the offered settlement too.

Some people seem to have gone CEDR because their claim is large to avoid any fees even though the law is clearly on their side. With a good case I wouldn’t take that risk I’d go MCOL.

[Jamesp21]

Update from BA after me asking if this was their final decision:

“Thanks for coming back to us about your claim for compensation.

I’ve reviewed all of the information on your delayed flight and I can confirm we won’t be offering you any EU compensation for the delay.

The eVouchers that have already been sent to you under case reference ****, are a gesture of goodwill for the lack of hot catering on board your flight. This is the same gesture offered to passengers who travelled in Club World on flight BA0255 on 20 December.

I’ve included the eVoucher details again below:”

I’ll probably go the MCOL route if people believe this is the best way forward. Such a shame that they’re using COVID as an excuse for their failings.

• This reply was modified 54 years, 4 months ago by .

[meta]

I agree with Lady London that MCOL is a better route. Probably also much quicker than CEDR. Make sure you pre-empt all their possible reasonings in your claim submission. It would be good if you also provide a detailed timeline of events in your submission.

The worst that can happen is you lose the MCOL fee, MCOL won’t award the legal costs unless the claim was seriously vexatious. Also add statutory interest to the claim amount. There is a tick box on the online form and it will calculate automatically for you.

[Rui N.]

You can also go first to CEDR and then to MCOL if you lose, no?

[meta]

Yes, but why waste time? You’re looking at 3+ months for CEDR (or more in some cases) then 3 months again for MCOL as you’ll need to serve them LBA again after unsuccessful CEDR. In Jamesp21 case, he doesn’t need to upfront any cash other than small MCOL fee (£35 or £50). MCOL is more expensive for the airline, so they are more likely to settle before the hearing and also there are set deadlines when they have to respond, so there is pressure.

CEDR rulings can be ignored by the airline ignore it as we have seen here before. Someone said that they had to threat going to MCOL to enforce it.

[Jamesp21]

Whichever route I go (likely MCOL), can I make a single claim for me and my partner or does it have to be separate claims? Thanks.

[meta]

I’d separate claims for MCOL. Better for settling as BA would need to spend 2x more time on defending the claim.

[Jamesp21]

Latest MCOL update from BA:

They intend to defend all of this claim.

As this is the first time I’ve ever done this, is this response fairly normal from them or are they genuinely going to take it the whole way? Really though we were in with a chance with this.

[Ronsta]

I was also on this flight. I’ve never escalated anything past BA customer services but for this I have used the CEDR route. I’ll let you know if I have any joy.

The whole thing was handled terribly and I would have hoped BA would offer compensation regardless.

[Jamesp21]

Morning Ronda. Was this the original Monday 20th December flight? Not the Sunday flight which got cancelled and moved to the Monday. Good to know you’re also fighting it, I’ll keep posting any updates here.

[Jamesp21]

Jamesp21 wrote:

Morning Ronda. Was this the original Monday 20th December flight? Not the Sunday flight which got cancelled and moved to the Monday. Good to know you’re also fighting it, I’ll keep posting any updates here.

Ronsta* My apologies.