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Chat thread – Wednesday 25th January

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  • Super Secret Stuff

    I need some advice on EU 261 rights, passenger assist delays and fog delays.

    So basically today I flew MAN to LHR on BA 1389. It was delayed inbound due to a burst water pipe at LHR, fog and de icing missing the departure slot.

    It missed its slot at MAN as a result. Had to wait for an hour on the plane. When we finally arrive was told the jet bridge was out of operation and they had to wait for buses. 30 mins later it was just me and 2 others sat waiting for passenger assist. They kept saying 15 mins for the lift. Then an hour after landing, they said the lift company was prioritising departures. Crew helped me off, 2 hours later than scheduled.

    What are my rights? What’s the optimal way of enforcing those rights?

    Richie

    citizenM/Chicago thoughts required –

    I have booked four nights for two of us in Chicago cM in March on a pretty reasonable rate – £570 fully flex with breakfast included.

    In the BA hols sale, Swissotel, Fairmont, Sonesta etc are all coming back under £600 (room only) which is a decent saving on the direct rates for each.

    A bit concerned we are risking cabin fever with four nights in the cM so should we forego the brekky and shift to a ‘proper’ hotel?!

    I would.

    davefl

    There are 2 Sentrals, one south of the loop and one on Michigan Ave. The south loop one has great reviews but it’s quite far south near the Field Museum, so be aware it’ll take 20-30 mins to get up to the area around Navy Pier. The Mich Ave one is quite a bit more expensive but better location

    I’m only seeing one located 808 S Michigan Avenue near Grant Park.

    Where’s the other one?

    Sorry, I’m a muppet. Confusing it with the Sonders… sonders.. sentrals… same stuff. I’ve looked at so many properties in Chicago and the prices are crazy. I missed the window for all of those sub 300/night and ended up booking the River North with a kitchen instead

    davefl

    @davefl, phew, thanks, I could only recall horror stories from @meta and @cat!

    Once on board they are fine.fine. It’s if anything goes wrong where things are bad …

    Remember the article not that long ago that was written about some trip either Rob or rhys did to TAP where a few people thought an opportunity had been lost to ask the CEO about their appalling customer service Dealing with refunds and EU261 compo?

    Show me an airline that’s good when things go pear shaped. None of them are. Some are slightly better than appalling.

    BJ

    @SSS, nothing under EC261 I believe but the more knowledgeable such as LL, meta ir JDB will clarify. I seem to recall you have mobility issues? If so and you were distressed by this journey (as seems the case from your description) for various reasons relating to both airline and airport then I’d raise a complaint about that.


    @Anna
    , one thing I have learned in past 40 odd years of travelling is that horror stories are the very rare exception and not the rule regardless of airlines involved. So, just relax and enjoy. If things go wrong you can do nothing until after it happens anyway so no point worrying.

    bruinbrown

    Has anyone had any luck with Air France cancellations and getting rebooked onto the flight you want to take? I’ve got a flight from LHR to ICN via CDG with Air France. They’ve cancelled one of the legs of the flight and offered me the option to rebook as they should. It’s booked in premium economy but all of the rerouting options are in economy. I can see there’s tickets still available for the day I want to travel in premium economy but I’m not being offered that option. When I phoned up, the route they offered me was on Delta via Atlanta and they said they weren’t able to book me onto any others. Has anyone managed to find the right email address/call centre/choice of words to get them to rebook onto a flight that the airline doesn’t automatically offer?

    gtellez

    @davefl, phew, thanks, I could only recall horror stories from @meta and @cat!

    Once on board they are fine.fine. It’s if anything goes wrong where things are bad …

    Remember the article not that long ago that was written about some trip either Rob or rhys did to TAP where a few people thought an opportunity had been lost to ask the CEO about their appalling customer service Dealing with refunds and EU261 compo?

    I slightly disagree, back in April last year they cancelled my flight 10-12 days before the flight and rebooked me in a flight departing the next day. Although they did not answer my claim, I put a claim with AviationADR and at the end of June got 800 euros (400 each, the flight was LIS-MAN). Overall very satisfied, as I enjoyed an extra day with family (no hotel needed) and got back 3 times what I paid for the flights.

    NorthernLass

    @SSS, sounds like a thoroughly miserable experience. I don’t think there’s a huge amount you can do apart from complaining to the airport – there have been several cases recently of people with disabilities being treated really badly. I’d also be tempted to investigate whether this constitutes disability discrimination, e.g. denying disabled passengers access to services and facilities and failing to make reasonable adjustments, i.e. failing to have sufficient staff and equipment to passengers who need them.

    AJA

    @SSS Unfortunately, EC261 does not apply given that it’s when the doors open and any passenger can leave the aircraft. The aircraft arrived an hour late, so well under the time limit for EC261. Also, anyone requiring assistance is usually asked to remain seated until other pax have left. In your case, the extra delay is out of BA’s control as passenger assistance is operated by HAL. I feel sorry for you but also for the cabin crew, who are also inconvenienced since they can’t leave the aircraft until you do.

    I would write a letter of complaint to HAL, copying BA, and express your dissatisfaction, but I’m not sure what good it will do.

    AJA

    Has anyone had any luck with Air France cancellations and getting rebooked onto the flight you want to take? I’ve got a flight from LHR to ICN via CDG with Air France. They’ve cancelled one of the legs of the flight and offered me the option to rebook as they should. It’s booked in premium economy but all of the rerouting options are in economy. I can see there’s tickets still available for the day I want to travel in premium economy but I’m not being offered that option. When I phoned up, the route they offered me was on Delta via Atlanta and they said they weren’t able to book me onto any others. Has anyone managed to find the right email address/call centre/choice of words to get them to rebook onto a flight that the airline doesn’t automatically offer?

    Air France is obliged under EC261 to reroute you in Premium Economy ie in an equivalent cabin to the original booking. If there are seats still on sale in PE for the day you are entitled to travel then screen shot that immediately.

    I am not sure how you get hold of AF but in the absence of them offering uou what you want you may have to purchase the seat and claiming via MCOL for the cost.

    The relevant bit is
    Article 8 EC261/2004 as enacted into UK law via the Air Passenger Rights and Air Travel Organisers’ Licensing (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

    Right to reimbursement or re-routing

    1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between:

    (a) – reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger’s original travel plan, together with, when relevant,

    – a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity;

    (b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity; or

    (c) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at a later date at the passenger’s convenience, subject to availability of seats.

    You need to make clear you are exercising your rights under Article 8 EC261/2004 as enacted into UK law via the Air Passenger Rights and Air Travel Organisers’ Licensing (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 as set out in paragraph (b) i.e. re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to your final destination at the earliest opportunity

    Mention that you can see seats for sale in Premium Economy on flight AFxxx on dd/mmm/2023

    Please issue ticket for this flight.

    BJ

    @SSS, sounds like a thoroughly miserable experience. I don’t think there’s a huge amount you can do apart from complaining to the airport – there have been several cases recently of people with disabilities being treated really badly. I’d also be tempted to investigate whether this constitutes disability discrimination, e.g. denying disabled passengers access to services and facilities and failing to make reasonable adjustments, i.e. failing to have sufficient staff and equipment to passengers who need them.

    There is no discrimination because both airlines and airports can show they have arrangements in place for disabled people. However, the equalities act requires that these arrangers be reasonable. I would suggest that the arrangements (or at least the delivery of them) were not reasonable in this case and that should be the basis of any complaint by @SSS. Disabled People are vulnerable hence safeguarding also comes into play. There are shortcomings here too because the failures ib delivery may (or not) have compromised @SSS safety, or at the very least the dignity, compassion and respect they should reasonably expect from proper safeguarding. All these combined clearly left @SSS inconvenienced and distressed, at least it seemed that way to me from tge original post. I would hope that the airline and airportvrespobded to any complaint raised with more than shallow words.

    Lady London

    @meta might tell me I’ve made a huge mistake here but I’ve just booked my first ever flight with TAP 😬. I have weekend in LIS this autumn and TAP is the only airline which flies direct to MAN on our return date. Am I going to regret this?!

    You’ll be fine. Just make sure you check the Ryanair timetable beforehand so you can take immediate action when needed.

    JDB

    I need some advice on EU 261 rights, passenger assist delays and fog delays.

    So basically today I flew MAN to LHR on BA 1389. It was delayed inbound due to a burst water pipe at LHR, fog and de icing missing the departure slot.

    It missed its slot at MAN as a result. Had to wait for an hour on the plane. When we finally arrive was told the jet bridge was out of operation and they had to wait for buses. 30 mins later it was just me and 2 others sat waiting for passenger assist. They kept saying 15 mins for the lift. Then an hour after landing, they said the lift company was prioritising departures. Crew helped me off, 2 hours later than scheduled.

    What are my rights? What’s the optimal way of enforcing those rights?

    I’m really sorry you suffered this experience; it’s bad enough to have the delay to contend with, but then to be left stranded is unacceptable. However, the reality is that the APR/UK261 doesn’t provide for any effective remedy or compensation – Article 11 is very woolly. Although you won’t benefit directly, in order to highlight the basic failure to provide adequate support for people with special needs, you should write to HAL, BA and the CAA. The more people that do so with specific bad experiences, the more likely some action will eventually be taken to improve matters. I think embarrassing the parties may be even more effective, so social media may be your friend although that is way outside of limited competences.

    Super Secret Stuff

    Thank you everyone. HAL was on my list of people to contact, hadn’t thought of the CAA, it’s a good idea will definately do that.

    It was a very bad experience, I am not happy at all. But equally I’ve come to expect it from airports, its really common.

    Anyway, I’m dreading the return tomorrow. MAN are just as bad so something will go wrong. These instances are dangerous, I’m nearly blind with no depth perception, walking down wet stairs isn’t a good idea. It’s just wrong but so common!

    NorthernLass

    It is poor. On one of our MAN-LHR legs last year there was an elderly couple across from me in row 1. I assume they had been put there because the husband had an oxygen machine with him, but of course that meant their hand luggage had to go in the overheads, which they were completely unable to manage! I put it up (and down) for them when I noticed just how frail they both were but they weren’t offered any “official” assistance with it at all.

    dundj

    I need some advice on EU 261 rights, passenger assist delays and fog delays.

    So basically today I flew MAN to LHR on BA 1389. It was delayed inbound due to a burst water pipe at LHR, fog and de icing missing the departure slot.

    It missed its slot at MAN as a result. Had to wait for an hour on the plane. When we finally arrive was told the jet bridge was out of operation and they had to wait for buses. 30 mins later it was just me and 2 others sat waiting for passenger assist. They kept saying 15 mins for the lift. Then an hour after landing, they said the lift company was prioritising departures. Crew helped me off, 2 hours later than scheduled.

    What are my rights? What’s the optimal way of enforcing those rights?

    I’m really sorry you suffered this experience; it’s bad enough to have the delay to contend with, but then to be left stranded is unacceptable. However, the reality is that the APR/UK261 doesn’t provide for any effective remedy or compensation – Article 11 is very woolly. Although you won’t benefit directly, in order to highlight the basic failure to provide adequate support for people with special needs, you should write to HAL, BA and the CAA. The more people that do so with specific bad experiences, the more likely some action will eventually be taken to improve matters. I think embarrassing the parties may be even more effective, so social media may be your friend although that is way outside of limited competences.

    In addition, write to the Heathrow Community Engagement Board, which is their committee which should be talking in general about items at the airport such as accessibility. I note from their last published documents they do not have a current stakeholder for accessibility though this was at the end of 2021. It is something all airports should be aware of and a complaint directly to that committee should be brought up in their quarterly meeting to discuss how to improve these issues.

    SamG

    Has anyone had any luck with Air France cancellations and getting rebooked onto the flight you want to take? I’ve got a flight from LHR to ICN via CDG with Air France. They’ve cancelled one of the legs of the flight and offered me the option to rebook as they should. It’s booked in premium economy but all of the rerouting options are in economy. I can see there’s tickets still available for the day I want to travel in premium economy but I’m not being offered that option. When I phoned up, the route they offered me was on Delta via Atlanta and they said they weren’t able to book me onto any others. Has anyone managed to find the right email address/call centre/choice of words to get them to rebook onto a flight that the airline doesn’t automatically offer?

    Did you try Facebook? They’re very responsive on there

    bruinbrown

    Has anyone had any luck with Air France cancellations and getting rebooked onto the flight you want to take? I’ve got a flight from LHR to ICN via CDG with Air France. They’ve cancelled one of the legs of the flight and offered me the option to rebook as they should. It’s booked in premium economy but all of the rerouting options are in economy. I can see there’s tickets still available for the day I want to travel in premium economy but I’m not being offered that option. When I phoned up, the route they offered me was on Delta via Atlanta and they said they weren’t able to book me onto any others. Has anyone managed to find the right email address/call centre/choice of words to get them to rebook onto a flight that the airline doesn’t automatically offer?

    Did you try Facebook? They’re very responsive on there

    I ended up giving Twitter a go. After a couple of unsuccessful attempts at the website and over the phone I thought I might as well I’m glad I did because the person I spoke to sorted it straight away and booked me in PE on the flight that I wanted.

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