Forums › Frequent flyer programs › British Airways Executive Club › MAN …. OMG
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They wanted £378 for Preston-Euston return last week, it was cheaper to drive and stay over, even with London hotel prices!
I am starting to wonder if there’s a secret plan to let the North West become a wasteland then try and sell it to an (eventually) independent Scotland 😂Colleagues in Preston often book that train as if they’ll commence their journey from Blackpool, but actually get on at Preston.
Apparently cheaper I’m told.
No idea if true.They wanted £378 for Preston-Euston return last week, it was cheaper to drive and stay over, even with London hotel prices!
I am starting to wonder if there’s a secret plan to let the North West become a wasteland then try and sell it to an (eventually) independent Scotland 😂Colleagues in Preston often book that train as if they’ll commence their journey from Blackpool, but actually get on at Preston.
Apparently cheaper I’m told.
No idea if true.There are lots of anomalies like this including it being cheaper to get off a train a few stops before the station you actually paid for. All against the rules = you get fined if they find out. One famous rather rich/ loadsamoney (merchant banker, I think) guy did it for years before he got found out (and sacked by his employers). He couldn’t resist cheating the system/ showing he was cleverer than the rest of us, even though it was illegal.
Lol… https://insideflyer.co.uk/2022/11/is-manchester-really-the-worst-airport-in-the-uk/
I think the most shocking thing about that article is that Insideflyer still exists.
What’s wrong with it?
All against the rules = you get fined if they find out
Absolutely not the case. Very important to be clear on what the rules are, but lots of rail ticket “fiddles” are legal. On most non-advance tickets, you’re entitled to board after the origin station, or leave before the destination; these tickets allow “break of journey” an unlimited number of times, which of course means you can get on and off at any points between origin and destination.
There are still a huge number of (ENTIRELY LEGAL) fiddles whereby tickets are valid along non-obvious routes, or (as above) an A-C ticket is valid via B and cheaper than a B-C ticket. The train operators’ revenue management people get them shut down if you shout about them, though.
My favourite fiddle is condition of carriage 14.3 (previously 19c and known as a “19c split”) – you can split your ticket at stations where the train does not stop, so long as one of the tickets you are using is a season ticket. Leeds to Wakey Westgate weekly season and a stack of orange bits of cardboard between the stops en-route would get you on the early morning fast train to London for about £100 less than the walk-up price. Rail staff vary….considerably…in their reaction to this one (between “making a malicious allegation and having the ticketholder arrested” to “thank you sir!”) but it’s nailed-on legal.
He couldn’t resist cheating the system/ showing he was cleverer than the rest of us, even though it was illegal.
Usually these cases which go to prosecution are “donuting” (buying a ticket from origin to the next station along, and a ticket from the penultimate stop to the destination, in order to have something which will open the barriers at each end and knowing they will not be checked on-board), misuse of railcard, or outright forgery of tickets.
All against the rules = you get fined if they find out
Absolutely not the case. Very important to be clear on what the rules are, but lots of rail ticket “fiddles” are legal. On most non-advance tickets, you’re entitled to board after the origin station, or leave before the destination; these tickets allow “break of journey” an unlimited number of times, which of course means you can get on and off at any points between origin and destination.
There are still a huge number of (ENTIRELY LEGAL) fiddles whereby tickets are valid along non-obvious routes, or (as above) an A-C ticket is valid via B and cheaper than a B-C ticket. The train operators’ revenue management people get them shut down if you shout about them, though.
My favourite fiddle is condition of carriage 14.3 (previously 19c and known as a “19c split”) – you can split your ticket at stations where the train does not stop, so long as one of the tickets you are using is a season ticket. Leeds to Wakey Westgate weekly season and a stack of orange bits of cardboard between the stops en-route would get you on the early morning fast train to London for about £100 less than the walk-up price. Rail staff vary….considerably…in their reaction to this one (between “making a malicious allegation and having the ticketholder arrested” to “thank you sir!”) but it’s nailed-on legal.
He couldn’t resist cheating the system/ showing he was cleverer than the rest of us, even though it was illegal.
Usually these cases which go to prosecution are “donuting” (buying a ticket from origin to the next station along, and a ticket from the penultimate stop to the destination, in order to have something which will open the barriers at each end and knowing they will not be checked on-board), misuse of railcard, or outright forgery of tickets.
His dishonest behaviour came to the attention of the City watchdog after it came to light that he had saved himself almost £43,000 over several years by exploiting a loophole at the ticket barriers.
The East Sussex commuter boarded the London-bound train at Stonegate, a rural station with no ticket barriers. When he arrived at Cannon Street station in London, he tapped in using an Oyster card, paying a £7.20 fare, rather than the £21.50 cost of his journey.
Burrows avoided prosecution after making an out-of-court-settlement with Southeastern railways, but had to resign from his high-flying job at Blackrock after a public outcry.
They wanted £378 for Preston-Euston return last week, it was cheaper to drive and stay over, even with London hotel prices!
I am starting to wonder if there’s a secret plan to let the North West become a wasteland then try and sell it to an (eventually) independent Scotland 😂Colleagues in Preston often book that train as if they’ll commence their journey from Blackpool, but actually get on at Preston.
Apparently cheaper I’m told.
No idea if true.There are lots of anomalies like this including it being cheaper to get off a train a few stops before the station you actually paid for. All against the rules = you get fined if they find out. One famous rather rich/ loadsamoney (merchant banker, I think) guy did it for years before he got found out (and sacked by his employers). He couldn’t resist cheating the system/ showing he was cleverer than the rest of us, even though it was illegal.
That passenger who was fined and dismissed bought tickets from Lancaster to London but habitually got on and off at Preston from where the fare was significantly higher. Preston is a favourite for this practice because it is 1 of a small number of major stations without automated barriers installed so you can enter and exit without any form of check.
The East Sussex commuter boarded the London-bound train at Stonegate, a rural station with no ticket barriers. When he arrived at Cannon Street station in London, he tapped in using an Oyster card, paying a £7.20 fare, rather than the £21.50 cost of his journey.
That’s illegal – although you can get away with it for a very long time… I suspect they caught him after manually investigating why he was paying a maximum fare (for tapping out without tapping in first) every single day. Donuting would be if he were buying a cheap ticket from his origin station as well. He might have got away with it indefinitely if he’d bought a season ticket or travelcard every day to open the barrier at his destination.
(For the avoidance of doubt, I don’t advocate this, it is criminal).That passenger who was fined and dismissed bought tickets from Lancaster to London but habitually got on and off at Preston from where the fare was significantly higher. Preston is a favourite for this practice because it is 1 of a small number of major stations without automated barriers installed so you can enter and exit without any form of check.
Lancaster to London Terminals fares: https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=LAN&dest=1072
Preston fares: https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=PRE&dest=1072Lancaster fares are, as you’d expect, slightly higher than Preston.
As I wrote above, non-advance tickets are valid if used in this way: to end the journey before the destination (“stop short”), or start after the origin (“start long”).
It’s likely that there have been times when advance tickets from Lancaster were cheaper than those from Preston. This is a murky area. By the letter of the law it is not allowed – you cannot “stop short” or “start long” on an Advance. In practice, you will get away with if you do it occasionally, and there are ways (like buying the ticket to a small rural shack with an unspecified local connection) to cover your arse. The rail industry guidelines were not to take the matter further unless there was evidence of serious intent to defraud the railway.
Again, I don’t advocate this, as it’s criminal.
(BA haven’t done anything about all my abandoned LHR-DUB segments, on similar matter)
It’s possible someone’s been prosecuted for habitually stopping short on an Advance ticket, but they’d be very unlucky. If it had been a commute (the mind boggles…) they’d likely have been using a Season, which is valid between any stations between origin and destination over any valid route…
@TooPoorToBeHere. It was some years ago and, as I recall it, the frequency was what brought his conduct to attention and I think he had actually been warned about it. I don’t remember what type of tickets he was buying but at the time there were lots of fare anomalies of the type he was seeking to exploit.
at the time there were lots of fare anomalies of the type he was seeking to exploit.
Although rail ticketing is still a massively shambolic mess, making BA IT look like a tight ship, a lot of anomalies of the “Kings Cross to St Pancras in First Class via Thurso for £7” variety have been shut down over the years. Sad times.
@TooPoorToBeHere. It was some years ago and, as I recall it, the frequency was what brought his conduct to attention and I think he had actually been warned about it. I don’t remember what type of tickets he was buying but at the time there were lots of fare anomalies of the type he was seeking to exploit.
The frequency relates to the intent which is what leads to successful prosecutions.
Back on topic, passed through MAN T1 at 7am. Ordinary Joes were summarily dismissed at security entrance and sent to Security B, aka the basement cowshed. Only fast tracks were allowed use Security A on the check in level. I had the misfortune of flying out at the same time as an Emirates A380, though thanks to Emirates aggressively helpful stance on offering to check hand luggage (plus a weirdly specific max bag size), most EK passengers were light of load. Which is why I suspect my arrival at the conveyor belt frustrated the staff so much. As a seasoned MAN user, I was taking no chances on seco dary screening. Electronics and liquids were placed in trays, along with contact lenses, umbrella, charging cables, vitamin jars and a GU11 type bulb (used) I had been carrying around to remind me to replace. “Look at all the shit this guy has, Christ sake” was a verbatim quote from one conveyor belt dragon to the other. However, to prove the necessity of doing so, I got through with no secondary screening. By contrast, the security lane next to me had been opened for the Emirates A380 crew. These daily users of airports seemed utterly baffled by the instructions from the MAN staff to “out that in a tray, NO, not in the same tray, put it in another one”; not one of them made it through in one pass having multiple trays each and with the overhead diagnostics screen showing a 35% rejection rate. Surely one can reasonably conclude the problem is not the passengers when a flight crew can’t make it through in one pass.
My bag was secondary screened for an inhaler which they plucked out like they won a major prize before ceremoniously putting it in a zip lock bag and presenting it to me like I was on the terrorism hit list
When I asked why I was told “it’s an inhaler” – I could have congratulated him on his observation skills and asked why the heck that has got anything to do with security but let it slide as he was obviously a power crazed d1ckhead and I did not want to feed the troll.
It’s pathetic…..
I last went through during the summer holidays not long after all the horror stories and flew through security (as did many I know) despite long queues. It felt like they had adopted a ‘wave everything through’ policy. Sounds like a return to normal now and while I do question the vigour MAN show compared to other airports I do wonder if there is something behind it. Could MAN be on a higher terror alert than other airports? I wouldn’t expect the public to know and it is not beyond reason.
There was a bit of a fuss after this incident: Manchester Airport security boss put ‘pipe bomb in her pocket’
There was a bit of a fuss after this incident: Manchester Airport security boss put ‘pipe bomb in her pocket’
He was given 18yrs so the courts took it a bit more seriously than MAN.
If you want to see how the Airport sees things I suggest looking at https://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/community/consultative-committee/ to read previous minutes which do go into details around the security queues. If the Passenger representative position becomes available at any point then I would suggest someone who uses it regularly applies to join the committee to provide a voice for passengers.
Is there genuinely nowhere to escalate these issues?
No ombudsman or other oversight?Perhaps Panorama might want to do a report.
Does anyone know if I can use T2 fast track as KLM Gold?
You can only use Fast Track at T2 if your airline gives you a yellow/gold Fast Track sticker on the back of your boarding pass, irrespective of whether FASTTRACK, Sky Priority etc. appears on the boarding pass. It’s a joke, but it is what it is. Fast track security is not a guaranteed Sky Priority benefit, so it wouldn’t surprise me – if KL don’t give you a sticker – that MAG/KL haven’t reached an agreement at MAN.
If KL don’t give you a magic sticker, you could flutter your eyelashes at the VS desk and see if they’ll give you one – it’s right next to security entrance.
I used to be based there as crew, no crew food onboard so I used to take frozen curries through security. I was told once or twice that I couldn’t because it was a liquid. I explained calmly that it was actually a solid and that there was a good chance of sublimation occurring later, the look of confusion at this stage was priceless.
Does anyone know if I can use T2 fast track as KLM Gold?
You can only use Fast Track at T2 if your airline gives you a yellow/gold Fast Track sticker on the back of your boarding pass, irrespective of whether FASTTRACK, Sky Priority etc. appears on the boarding pass. It’s a joke, but it is what it is. Fast track security is not a guaranteed Sky Priority benefit, so it wouldn’t surprise me – if KL don’t give you a sticker – that MAG/KL haven’t reached an agreement at MAN.
If KL don’t give you a magic sticker, you could flutter your eyelashes at the VS desk and see if they’ll give you one – it’s right next to security entrance.
Do you stick that on your phone screen then if you have an electronic boarding pass 😉
I used to be based there as crew, no crew food onboard so I used to take frozen curries through security. I was told once or twice that I couldn’t because it was a liquid. I explained calmly that it was actually a solid and that there was a good chance of sublimation occurring later, the look of confusion at this stage was priceless.
They had two cans of mushy peas off me a while back – certain US colleagues had asked me to introduce them to the finest aspects of British cuisine.
Fair cop, I guess…
Do you stick that on your phone screen then if you have an electronic boarding pass 😉
MAN producing a pointless, illogical process? I never.
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