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I am looking to purchase a watch and have been advised the cost will be more if using Amex due to the card processing fee charged to the seller.
They have suggested one way around this is by paying via PayPal and using friends and family option (payment will be to their limited company). They’ve advised that because this is a purchase from a business, Amex will consider it a regular transaction and apply the standard rewards and protection benefits.
I didn’t want to fall of abusing Amex terms and conditions so just wanted to check if this was fine to do? Transaction is around £5k and will be made using Amex business platinum card – it will help me reach sign up bonus spend.
I was under the impression that friends & family payments don’t work where the recipient is a business account.
Maybe I was wrong?Agreed if the recipient account is registered as a business, if not then it’s F&F, but the sender can’t influence that.
Amex shouldn’t mind either way, whether PayPal will accept £5K is subject to their limits.
It’s also illegal to charge more for a personal card payment in the UK, although if the seller is elsewhere that won’t apply.
It’s not permissable to charge more/an additional fee for using a personal credit card and a business should know this. It is permissable not to accept AMEX Personally I’d steer well clear given the amount.
No, no, no. Absolutely no buyer protection using F&F.
Good point @strickers. Either they are in the UK and can’t impose a card surcharge, or they are overseas in which case forget PayPal to someone you have no comeback against.
If they are actually offering to take a business payment of that size through a personal PayPal account I would walk away.
Amex shouldn’t mind either way, whether PayPal will accept £5K is subject to their limits.
IMO, it’s the other way round. PayPal knows who is receiving it and wouldn’t mind unless the recipient was already being flagged for suspicious transactions.
Amex on the other hand doesn’t like this if it’s done often. They can easily block your Amex account if they decide it’s above their tolerance limit.
Not to mention the other red flags already raised above – illegal to charge more for a card and suspicious if forcing buyer to send to a personal PayPal account even though clearly declaring it’s a business.
@DJJ – the fact the business has suggested this ‘workaround’ at all ought to be a great big red flag as a general principle, let alone the fact that it will cause many of your statutory rights/recourses to be disapplied. I certainly wouldn’t be relying upon the business’ assertions re the impact on your Amex account; they don’t bear analysis.
Thanks for all the replies.
To be fair to the business they have been quite transparent. They advised me to contact Amex/do my own research to check whether this is a viable option before committing, but have said other clients have done this in the past. They have not pushed for this and have offered other alternative conventional methods.They have quoted one price for card payment but said can offer slight discount via bank transfer. I have seen other “reputable” watch shops/authorised dealers do similar.
With regards to paying via Amex, is it not true that the merchant gets charged more than other credit cards (I have heard something like 2% charge) which is why some merchants do not offer Amex payment?
Amex on the other hand doesn’t like this if it’s done often. They can easily block your Amex account if they decide it’s above their tolerance limit.
Agreed re ‘too often’, but the enquiry was specifically about a one-off so in itself shouldn’t be a problem. To clarify what I meant was that for a one-off payment it won’t make a difference to Amex whether the recipient is a business or an individual. If they did object I wouldn’t think it was because of one vs the other.
With regards to paying via Amex, is it not true that the merchant gets charged more than other credit cards (I have heard something like 2% charge) which is why some merchants do not offer Amex payment?
Yes that is correct and precisely why Amex can be used less widely, but that doesn’t alter the fact that a retailer cannot charge more – or discount less – for any type of personal card payment.
At the end of the day it does happen. If you challenge them over it they will probably just apologise and remove the discount for the bank payment.
@DJJ – no, it is not true that Amex charges more than other cards. They will match any offer you have as a merchant and either undercut it or offer no fees for very extended periods. They do operate a different merchant agreement system, pay a bit more slowly and create more admin so it’s a pain rather than a higher cost.
Of course your watch supplier would like you to pay via a bank transfer as, like PayPal you basically sign away your best consumer protections. You say they are being ‘transparent’ but everything you have said makes them sound rather sniffy.
I’m not into watches at all, my £29.99 Timex is just fine, but a friend who is a watch collector/buyer says what you are reporting isn’t at all normal.
Avoid, unless you 100% trust the seller. If you are buying grey market, you also need to see who deals with the warranty.
@DJJ – no, it is not true that Amex charges more than other cards. They will match any offer you have as a merchant and either undercut it or offer no fees for very extended periods. They do operate a different merchant agreement system, pay a bit more slowly and create more admin so it’s a pain rather than a higher cost.
Of course your watch supplier would like you to pay via a bank transfer as, like PayPal you basically sign away your best consumer protections. You say they are being ‘transparent’ but everything you have said makes them sound rather sniffy.
I’m not into watches at all, my £29.99 Timex is just fine, but a friend who is a watch collector/buyer says what you are reporting isn’t at all normal.
The business quoted a price for the watch. When I asked for discount they said they could apply a discount if I made bank transfer – this doesn’t seem unreasonable or unusual to me as they are passing on the card processing fee saving to the consumer. Of course I would not make a bank transfer for a purchase of this amount due to losing protection rights – they highlighted this themselves and have not been pushing for one form of payment rather than the other, but have given me a choice (due to the question I posed about getting discount).
Regarding the paypal “workaround” – again they said in the past some customers have done this but I should check with Amex whether they would accept this and whether I would lose my consumer protection. For what its worth I spoke to Amex and the agent said paying via friends and family would trigger an internal review of my account, and thus she would not advise going down this route.
Avoid, unless you 100% trust the seller. If you are buying grey market, you also need to see who deals with the warranty.
Watch is < 1 year old, so has significant amount of original warranty remaining from the watch manufacturer. I do appreciate everyone’s replies, but I see little risk especially if paying via credit card. Seller seems trustworthy from my interactions.
Transaction is around £5k and will be made using Amex business platinum card
Are you buying the watch for business purposes?
£50 lesson learnt from a few years back and slightly OT. Bought an item on Paypal which seller insisted on f&f not Paypal protected which charges a little on top (2 diff things). We know what happened next.
Transaction is around £5k and will be made using Amex business platinum card
Are you buying the watch for business purposes?
Yes, he is wearing it on his persons whilst doing business. 😀
Amex is often more expensive for retailers than other credit cards, which is why many merchants refuse to accept it. Fact.
You can of course haggle with Amex over their fees. Or you can simply ask your customers to pay with MC or Visa, and get on with your business.
£50 lesson learnt from a few years back and slightly OT. Bought an item on Paypal which seller insisted on f&f not Paypal protected which charges a little on top (2 diff things). We know what happened next.
You could have paid the extra fee yourself. It is 2.9% plus 30p I think. It’s what I always do… You get buyer protection and then the seller isn’t paying the fee themselves so they shouldn’t be bothered
Avoid, unless you 100% trust the seller. If you are buying grey market, you also need to see who deals with the warranty.
Watch is < 1 year old, so has significant amount of original warranty remaining from the watch manufacturer. I do appreciate everyone’s replies, but I see little risk especially if paying via credit card. Seller seems trustworthy from my interactions.
You won’t be covered by credit card if you pay via PayPal, if I remember correctly.
@dannyc that was crux of the scam. Like I said a mistake learnt as had I just paid the fee, they would have been recourse.
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