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As a CEO, I wouldn’t want to be seen in Business Class on a short-haul business trip; the optics are terrible. And I know a university Vice Chancellor who, again, always travels in Economy for business trips, even long-haul; it’s the optics, again. But both of us always travel in Business Class if we’re paying for ourselves.
The optics issue works both ways. If you want to be taken seriously you often need to insist on certain things to make a point.
You expect me, with 3-4 staff and a pretty sizeable business to oversee, to give up 3 days of my life to come and see your hotel for no fee? Or speak at your conference for no fee even though you are charging attendees €2,000? You will do a), b) and c) for me or its not happening.
Especially in the aviation business, sitting in 1D so everyone else has to pass you on the way to the back is a statement about where we sit in the industry. It is also a statement about HfP – we could hire anyone, from any aviation or travel publication in Britain, at any level of seniority, because everyone in the industry knows that we pay better than everyone else and we treat our staff better than everyone else.
The issue isn’t about being physically seen. It’s about people in the office talking when the expense claim is submitted. For my Vice Chancellor friend, it’s about what the local media, the unions and the students say when business class travel is discovered.
I don’t care how good the business case is for premium class travel; I won’t be in the room to defend myself when the conversations happen. It’s much easier to lose trust and respect than to win it.
the ejection followed the rejection as they were eased out
No, come on, you can’t be ejected from somewhere you were never granted access to.
I was wondering, where did the ejection/rejection occur? Gold cardholders originating in LHR T5 would use the F Wing, where the first point of ejection would be the check in desk or if HBO then the pre-security BP checks of 2-3 manned desks. And if connecting, the Gold cardholder would enter the Galleries F lounge from the airside-facing entry with typically 3 manned desks. Perhaps it was a different terminal because I personally have never experienced queueing at either set of desks. Though that is of course just my own anecdotal experience.
They were at T5 North Galleries. No idea why they didn’t enter via FW. Possibly because they were three, one of whom was OK. The two Galleries lounges showed the max people on the pictogram, F nearly full and B half full. There were people queuing outside North on arrival and departure.
the ejection followed the rejection as they were eased out
No, come on, you can’t be ejected from somewhere you were never granted access to.
The entrance / reception area forms part of the lounge as a hotel reception forms part of a hotel.
The issue isn’t about being physically seen. It’s about people in the office talking when the expense claim is submitted.
To quote Oscar Wilde: “A cynic is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.”. Let’s say a modest vice-chancellor costs a University £200k (not just salary), or £1000/day. Now ask what 2 extra hours of productivity is worth during a return flight, and compare to the increased cost of a Club ticket.
the ejection followed the rejection as they were eased out
No, come on, you can’t be ejected from somewhere you were never granted access to.
The entrance / reception area forms part of the lounge as a hotel reception forms part of a hotel.
No, sorry – they were rejected from entry to the lounge. They cannot then be ejected from somewhere they hadnt accessed. I know you are making a point here (as you have done through this thread), but please explain what you mean by ejected – bouncer types surrounding them? Otherwise the use of ejected is just inflammatory. I suspect you meant rejected all along.
The issue isn’t about being physically seen. It’s about people in the office talking when the expense claim is submitted.
To quote Oscar Wilde: “A cynic is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.”. Let’s say a modest vice-chancellor costs a University £200k (not just salary), or £1000/day. Now ask what 2 extra hours of productivity is worth during a return flight, and compare to the increased cost of a Club ticket.
Completely agree, but the UK media has encouraged a culture of resenting career success. Partly they are just reflecting the reality of stagnant wages. See the furore over Rachel Reeves (hardly a shining example of success) posting a photo of her seated in BA (old) Club World. The media couldn’t push out enough articles about her “first class” fat cat excess. I would like to think cabinet ministers and indeed the shadow cabinet ought have the capacity to work in relative privacy in a premium cabin considering the stakes involved in that work.
@ChrisBCN – I try to use words carefully and like to think I have a reasonable command of the English language. I meant what I wrote.
@ChrisBCN – I try to use words carefully and like to think I have a reasonable command of the English language. I meant what I wrote.
Then putting aside the fact you can’t be ejected from somewhere you haven’t actually accessed, I’m sure with your command of the English language you are aware ejected implies a level of force (physical, verbal, other) – what exactly are you saying happened?
the ejection followed the rejection as they were eased out
No, come on, you can’t be ejected from somewhere you were never granted access to.
I was wondering, where did the ejection/rejection occur? Gold cardholders originating in LHR T5 would use the F Wing, where the first point of ejection would be the check in desk or if HBO then the pre-security BP checks of 2-3 manned desks. And if connecting, the Gold cardholder would enter the Galleries F lounge from the airside-facing entry with typically 3 manned desks. Perhaps it was a different terminal because I personally have never experienced queueing at either set of desks. Though that is of course just my own anecdotal experience.
They were at T5 North Galleries. No idea why they didn’t enter via FW. Possibly because they were three, one of whom was OK. The two Galleries lounges showed the max people on the pictogram, F nearly full and B half full. There were people queuing outside North on arrival and departure.
I expect there’s more to this rejection/ejection than meets the eye so. It would be irrational behaviour by the rejected gold card holder, and indeed the other gold card holders you say were not sympathetic in the queue behind them, to be queueing to enter Galleries North. I don’t think conclusions can thus be reached.
Indeed. No doubt we’ll be accused of clutching at straws, but I’ve seen a few people turned away and told to go to the B lounge, if their flights were departing from B or C, when North and South were reaching capacity. Including one incident when the guests had a stand up row with the lounge staff because they wanted to stay in Galleries South!
Indeed. No doubt we’ll be accused of clutching at straws, but I’ve seen a few people turned away and told to go to the B lounge, if their flights were departing from B or C, when North and South were reaching capacity. Including one incident when the guests had a stand up row with the lounge staff because they wanted to stay in Galleries South!
It’s only natural on the internet for opinions and interpretations to differ. None of us need take it to heart. All this OW lounge access stuff is of course a first world problem when there are people suffering real hardships out there in the wider world – namely the passengers on Global Airlines.
I shall not comment further on this thread save to say that my posts started out trying to assist those affected by these slightly messy transition issues that there’s a potential problem and, it appears one sometimes being applied by both BA and Iberia to the detriment of a number of people already, that neither airline is wrong about applying the published rules but most importantly that there are two different solutions to remove any risk. People’s desire to start collecting in a new scheme while enjoying previously earned benefits on another is entirely legitimate and understandable. It’s just that there’s a right way to do this and a wrong way.
Why that attempt to add clarity to the situation has degenerated into lecturing about semantics and abuse aimed at me, I don’t know.
Why that attempt to add clarity to the situation has degenerated into lecturing about semantics and abuse aimed at me, I don’t know.
I think it was when we moved from advice to belittling others (deserved or otherwise)
Please step out of the way sir and madam. Walk of shame past the muttering queue of eye rollers and head shakers who had to wait for all this. Helped pass the time anyway.
And then on to inflaming the situation
I personally observed a gold card holder being ejected from a lounge today
I’m still not clear that ‘ejection’ actually happened. 🙂
I didn’t see any abuse directed at you (apologies if I missed something) – more attempts to clarify the situation.
DNFTT
Perhaps BA could make it clear to their status holders what the rules are for accessing their lounges, etc.
I think HfP readers are generally more clued up than your average passenger and if they are not clear on the ‘rules’, then it doesn’t really matter if it’s a new rule , a tightening of existing rules or neither of the above. BA need to address the issue and make clear what their policy is so that staff manning lounge entry desks are not having to deal with disgruntled status holders trying to access their benefits and getting upset when they are denied. Surely it’s a problem easily fixed.
Also, JDB, I thoroughly respect your opinion, whether or not I agree with it or not. It’s quite nice to have a voice in the forum that is unashamedly independent of the crowd. I know you have helped a good number of people on this forum and spent a lot of your time doing so. I would hate to think you felt abused by other users.
For the record I think it was a rejection rather than an ejection.
Perhaps BA could make it clear to their status holders what the rules are for accessing their lounges, etc.
the rules are pretty clear:
https://www.britishairways.com/content/the-british-airways-club/about-the-club/terms-and-conditions
10.2. Members must produce their membership card and/or a boarding card or ticket (where their membership number and tier are clearly visible) before they can be admitted to a lounge. If a member is unable to produce either of these items, this may result in not being invited into the lounge.
presenting a membership card while on a OW flight is clearly sufficient to obtain access, with no requirement to have the flight credited to the same program
@bthere79, I don’t think that sentence is remotely clear. In fact, I have rarely seen such a badly worded sentence in the hundreds of legal agreements I’ve reviewed over the course of my career. Given the ambiguity, BA will inevitably interpret the clause in a way that best suits it. Some might have dreams of challenging BA’s interpretation in arbitration or even court, but that won’t make anyone’s journey any more pleasant. If BA decides you’re not welcome, you’re not welcome.
But T&Cs need to be read in entirety. Much more relevant is this one:
5.5. …Members should add their membership number to all bookings at time of booking, or prior to arriving at the airport.
That’s pretty clear. If your membership number isn’t on the booking, you don’t get to enjoy the club.
…
Also, JDB, I thoroughly respect your opinion, whether or not I agree with it or not. It’s quite nice to have a voice in the forum that is unashamedly independent of the crowd. I know you have helped a good number of people on this forum and spent a lot of your time doing so. I would hate to think you felt abused by other users.
…I completely agree with this sentiment.
I’ve often disagreed with @JDB, but he is consistently thoughtful, well-researched, considered and helpful. He says unpopular things, but more often than not, he’s absolutely right. JDB-baiting is a popular sport in this forum, but I have observed him to be consistently more polite and reasonable than most of those doing the baiting.
Not disagreeing about the depth of knowledge and helpfulness, but at the same time you must have completely missed the all insults and lambasting of anyone who dissents or strays from a particular path of conduct!
But as ever, it’s more productive to stick to topics than to get bogged down in personal issues.
But T&Cs need to be read in entirety. Much more relevant is this one:
5.5. …Members should add their membership number to all bookings at time of booking, or prior to arriving at the airport.
That’s pretty clear. If your membership number isn’t on the booking, you don’t get to enjoy the club.
That doesn’t mean that you cannot use your BA or OW status to access lounges and credit individual flights to the other airline membership scheme.
As has been pointed out previously there is space for both numbers on any booking; FQTS stands for “Frequent Flyer Status.” Which is a Special Service Request (SSR) code used to indicate the frequent flyer program a passenger wants to use to for status benefits, while FQTV indicates the program used for accumulating miles.
The issue is getting BA to do this. BA and IB seem recently to have decided that they only want passengers to use BA priveleges if they are also crediting to BA and in the opposite direction refusing to allow passengers to use their other OW status to access lounges while crediting to BA or IB.
Not disagreeing about the depth of knowledge and helpfulness, but at the same time you must have completely missed the all insults and lambasting of anyone who dissents or strays from a particular path of conduct!
But as ever, it’s more productive to stick to topics than to get bogged down in personal issues.
I’d call it bullying, sadly much of which seems to be directed at you.
I know who’d I’d rather be facing in a ying yang CW pair!
But T&Cs need to be read in entirety. Much more relevant is this one:
5.5. …Members should add their membership number to all bookings at time of booking, or prior to arriving at the airport.
That’s pretty clear. If your membership number isn’t on the booking, you don’t get to enjoy the club.
That doesn’t mean that you cannot use your BA or OW status to access lounges and credit individual flights to the other airline membership scheme.
As has been pointed out previously there is space for both numbers on any booking; FQTS stands for “Frequent Flyer Status.” Which is a Special Service Request (SSR) code used to indicate the frequent flyer program a passenger wants to use to for status benefits, while FQTV indicates the program used for accumulating miles.
The issue is getting BA to do this. BA and IB seem recently to have decided that they only want passengers to use BA priveleges if they are also crediting to BA and in the opposite direction refusing to allow passengers to use their other OW status to access lounges while crediting to BA or IB.
I learned this invaluable piece of info this week. Currently in KSA and at check in at Edinburgh on Saturday I asked for my FF number to be updated. The kind QR check in staff member asked if I wanted both my BA and RJ numbers in the system just as you have explained.
In manage my booking it shows my RJ FF number and also lists me as being BA Gold / Emerald with lounge and luggage benefits etc. I checked in last night for my return tomorrow and sure enough, my Gold / Emerald status is still showing for the return legs with my RJ number logged as the FF #. Only difference is the boarding group has dropped from 2 to 3 which I couldn’t give a monkey’s about.
@bthere79, I don’t think that sentence is remotely clear. In fact, I have rarely seen such a badly worded sentence in the hundreds of legal agreements I’ve reviewed over the course of my career. Given the ambiguity, BA will inevitably interpret the clause in a way that best suits it. Some might have dreams of challenging BA’s interpretation in arbitration or even court, but that won’t make anyone’s journey any more pleasant. If BA decides you’re not welcome, you’re not welcome.
But T&Cs need to be read in entirety. Much more relevant is this one:
5.5. …Members should add their membership number to all bookings at time of booking, or prior to arriving at the airport.
That’s pretty clear. If your membership number isn’t on the booking, you don’t get to enjoy the club.
the section about lounge access is entirely clear, no idea what you find unclear about it
5.5 is less relevant since it’s not explicitly linked to lounge access, so it can refer to general benefits, such as earning miles/avios
for some reason, you choose to read it differently, it certainly doesn’t make you right…
Not disagreeing about the depth of knowledge and helpfulness, but at the same time you must have completely missed the all insults and lambasting of anyone who dissents or strays from a particular path of conduct!
But as ever, it’s more productive to stick to topics than to get bogged down in personal issues.
@NL you’re definitely one of the most helpful people here and I’m personally very grateful for the advice you’ve shared over the years. It has helped me a great deal. I can see that you and JDB often approach things from a different angle. I would hope that he has never intentionally tried to offend you. I applaud your perspective on being constructive. I definitely owe you a drink at the HfP party if I ever manage to get a ticket.
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