[orion99]

RV wrote:

Can’t really advise on the cards, but can recommend that if you want to save on some avios and cash when flying to BR to go via Madrid with Iberia. You can go in business or at least premium economy for roughly the same you’d pay for BA economy.

Good shout… but kids are young enough at the moment for this not to be worth the extra faff. Maybe in a few years!

[orion99]

RV wrote:

OP mentions they normally fly to Brazil as a family of 4. They’d need 400k avios + circa £2K in taxes + 2 companion vouchers to fly business with BA. Not that easy to get to 400k avios yearly only with card spend!

Exactly this! Without business travel, need to make those Avios go a little further!

[orion99]

Scott wrote:

You can each easily put £15k through your cards and yet you usually fly economy? What on earth is wrong with you? You need to raise your standards 🙂

Haha, possibly so! But neither of us flies with work, so Avios earning power isn’t huge… would rather be sure we’ll have enough for those Brazil trips (and European flights somewhere in the in-between years) to make use of the companion vouchers every time.

[orion99]

TGLoyalty wrote:

Why downgrade just cancel it and resign up when you need it.

Mainly just to avoid the faff, keep myself registered on the app etc…

[orion99]

You are unlikely to get the cheapest cash price immediately seats are released.

Get that. But not really in a position to ‘gamble’ on seats being available/cheaper later. Certainty is of (non-monetary) value in my case.

[orion99]

I know, but since prices for the return legs weren’t up, I could only compare one-way at the outset. Now more dates have opened up I can compare with return prices, which look likely to be in the £4800-£5000 region at best

[orion99]

See, outward journey on those dates already up to over £3500, with returns (albeit at an earlier date than I want) £5000… so already looking like a better deal.

[orion99]

£2400 is only economy singles for now… 🙂

Will wait for the return prices and go from there. Thanks again!

[orion99]

NorthernLass wrote:

If you’re used to travelling in school holidays already, you’ll be aware of the painful price differential – if you were flying, say, to Malaga or Nice in peak season, 15k avios plus £50 (or whatever the RFS fee is now) for 2 seats in CE would be a chunky saving on the £500-£1000 you might well be paying on a cash fare.

So is the idea here that European flights (school holiday time) are expensive in cash but relatively ‘cheap’ in Avios? And perhaps long-haul economy is the opposite?

Using both 241s for Brazil (off-peak, economy) will save us 140,000 Avios, which I thought was quite good… but perhaps not compared to cash prices.

[orion99]

NorthernLass wrote:

One thing that does strike me – it doesn’t make a lot of sense to be paying the BAPP fee (£300 soon) if you know you’ll be using the voucher for economy flights – do you spend enough to generate a 241 on the free card?

Yes, I should consider this. Initial thought was that the 1.5 Avios per £1 helped, but would have to spend £60,000 in a year before that overtakes the £300 fee. We could definitely go to two free ones (or even one of each) and save overall, so thanks for that.

[orion99]

NorthernLass wrote:

I wouldn’t normally use a 241 for economy flights

Why? I get that a lot of people on this site will be ‘power users’ and earn enough Avios to use companion vouchers on business/first class… and I totally get how that extracts max value from the voucher. But we don’t fly for work etc so scope for earning Avios is comparatively low. I’m reluctant to use up a big chunk of our pot by booking business, especially as we need to make it last in order to use the companion vouchers each year.

Our budget could handle the cash flights. But I don’t quite get how the companion vouchers could offer better value in a shorter (European, for example) trip, when the Avios values are likely to be lower.

Oh, and values are off-peak already 🙂

Thanks for the response/patience!

[orion99]

I ask because that may include flights with connections, which we would want to avoid (young kids).

[orion99]

The real Swiss Tony wrote:

BA is quoting £720 for a return to Rio in July/August next year, assuming obviously that you can get the cheapest seats. So it’s not that much of a premium over the May price. You can make a modest saving but by the time you cover the cost of the amex vouchers (assuming these were from the paid for card) you’re at break even. Long haul economy class bookings using Avios rarely make sense if you’re trying to get outsized value.

Good advice, cheers. Where are they quoting this?

[orion99]

The real Swiss Tony wrote:

I think theres potentially another problem here because @orion99 is looking at one way tickets.

Next May, a one way on BA LHR-GIG is about £600. A return is also about £600.

So the most miles, least money option round trip will be 100k and £1200 with 2 241’s. Using a value of 1p per mile, you are paying £2200 via that route, rather than £2400 if buying cash tickets. And that’s before you consider the cost of the vouchers. Unless you’re coming back on a cruise or something?

Just further to this…I assume that the cash price for a return would be significantly higher in summer holiday (UK) than in May. But is there a way to check this?

Obviously if the cash cost of four economy returns is £2400 then this is a very bad way to use the vouchers. But it’s over £2400 just for four one-way tickets and my working calculation was doubling that for a return.

[orion99]

runnerbean wrote:

This may leave you cold, but, with some encouragement from HfP contributors I spent time and built up my own spreadsheet for avios, costs, value etc and some dummy spreadsheets for dropping in various options.

It means never having do the same calculation twice and I’ve got a very clear idea of the cost of my own Avios and the value I get from them.

Is this publicly available? 🙂

[orion99]

The real Swiss Tony wrote:

I think theres potentially another problem here because @orion99 is looking at one way tickets.

Next May, a one way on BA LHR-GIG is about £600. A return is also about £600.

So the most miles, least money option round trip will be 100k and £1200 with 2 241’s. Using a value of 1p per mile, you are paying £2200 via that route, rather than £2400 if buying cash tickets. And that’s before you consider the cost of the vouchers. Unless you’re coming back on a cruise or something?

Was planning on getting the return when available and adding to the booking (and vouchers).

Would it be wiser to wait until returns are available and book with two 2-4-1s then? I was kind of assuming the returns would be the same Avios cost, but maybe I’m wrong…

[orion99]

NorthernLass wrote:

You could also look at it as buying avios (e.g. with the last option) for 1.5p each (if my own calculations are correct), which isn’t a very good deal.

Thanks for your reply. Could you explain this bit?

[orion99]

Don’t forget you can boost up to treble the Avios points you’ve earned in the last 30 days for about 0.9p per point, much cheaper than part-paying.

Can you explain this please?

[orion99]

Thanks for replies.

Currently have 280,000 Avios in household account. Maybe that actually is enough when companion vouchers factored in?

Current vouchers won’t still be valid in two years. But we will certainly have earnt news ones by then.

We would want to sit all together. Economy or premium economy if it’s not too steep an upgrade (don’t know how it works with Avios).