[raynerdom]

Thanks thesecretSanta. My case is also with the adjudicator. I should hear in the next few days. Ba missed loads of deadlines with me too and refunded Avios ( but not taxes) only after assuring me that it wouldn’t affect my claim for reimbursement. They eventually refunded the taxes 5 months after the flight when they wanted to include in their defence that they had already refunded me Avios and taxes!

I’ll let you all know the result

[raynerdom]

Just to add to the timeline. BA didn’t refund the taxes until late august. 3 months after my CEDR submission so I couldn’t have included it in my dispute.

[raynerdom]

ok . here’s the timeline. as you will see BA customer service informed me that the refund of avios and taxes was seperate from downgrade reimbursement and so i didnt include it in my claim.

4th march: ba flight 280 from lax to lhr 18:00 cancelled with 12 hours notice. Originally booked 2 club class tickets with avios and 2for1 voucher. Rebooked onto ba flight 282 15:45 in economy

5th march : applied through BA claim form for cancellation compensation and downgrade compensation received a “we’re on the case” reply

9th march : after advice from the HFP forum I updated the downgrade part of my claim to be 75% reimbursement for both passengers

30th march: BA reject my claim for cancellation compensation as the previous plane was stuck in Toronto. They make no mention of downgrade reimbursement in this email

I reply saying they have made no reference to the downgrade reimbursement

31st march: BA email me to suggest I contact customer relations

31st march: I contact customer relations via online chat. I ask for downgrade reimbursement. I am told I can be refunded avios and taxes via the chat but that I would need to contact them via the BA customer relations portal in order to get the 75% downgrade reimbursement. They send me 46250 avios but no taxes are refunded until late august. See chat below

Neha T (31/03/2023, 15:33:05): Dominic, I have raised the request to refund for the amount that is tax difference. I will not be able to share the details for the tax difference as it will be done by the refund team. For the refund of avios and taxes, we will send you the email. Going further, for the CAA rule compensation please proceed with the complaint link.
null (31/03/2023, 15:35:06): ok as long as receiving tax and avios refund doesnt exclude me from the caa reimbursement
Neha T (31/03/2023, 15:36:22): Do not worry, they are seperately handled, as in this platform we can only refund what you have paid for to the original source. And for the compensation you will need to raise the request with customer relation team.
null (31/03/2023, 15:36:30): ok

31st march: I file a new claim through the BA customer relations portal for the 75% reimbursement for both passengers

5th April: BA respond to my new claim by apologising and adding 5000 avios to my account

I reply reiterating my request for downgrade reimbursement for both passengers

9th may: after no further reply from BA I file a dispute with CEDR. My claim is in 2 parts. I claim £260 each as our flight landed more than 2 hours before it was scheduled to land. I also claim £1334.25 each which I calculated from 75% of the cost of buying avios plus taxes for a 1 way flight in club from lax to lhr. So a total of £3188.50

27th June: CEDR accept my case

30th august: BA reply via CEDR and offer £520 as cancellation compensation.

30th august : BA reply via CEDR to claim no downgrade reimbursement is due as they have already refunded avios and taxes

31st August: I reject the offer of £520 for the entire claim and again request that they make downgrade reimbursement

11th September: BA reply to my rejection again saying no further payment is due

[raynerdom]

Apologies for any confusion. I was trying to draw the distinction between refunds and reimbursements ( as I have been warned to many times on this thread) and what I have been offered within the CEDR process and what ba have refunded outside the CEDR process. Would it help clarify things if I showed a timeline of the last 6 months since my cancelled flight?

[raynerdom]

Lady London wrote:

Sadly this is the fact @Raynerdom. At CEDR there is also a wider range of adjudicators, shall we say, and a wider range of outcomes. CEDR has more freedom to get it wrong than the courts. Give it your best chance by using the correct wording as in the legislation you are calling on to support you.

Anything else increases the gap for BA to slip through. You have such a good claim for downgrade reimbursement don’t waste it. Naturally, especially since BA has done this runaround on you, whack in your claim for cancellation compensation too as it may possibly give you icing on the cake.

thanks. the cancellation compensation and the downgrade reimbursement are all part of the same claim. so far i have been offered £520 for the cancellation and zero for the downgrade reimbursement

[raynerdom]

Ok thanks. Just so I get the language correct is it article 10 of EC261? I’m not sure the onus should be on the customer to get the language right when CEDR and BA should be the professionals in this case and should both know which rules apply

[raynerdom]

They haven’t really offered a defence except to say that I have received Avios and tax and that no more “refund” is due. They haven’t addressed the fact that I have been claiming reimbursement

[raynerdom]

This claim has been with CEDR for several months. Today ba issued a defence via a message through the CEDR process. CEDR have asked me to respond. My response will be that I want the dispute to go to arbitration

[raynerdom]

i rejected their offer of zero reimbursement for the downgrade. they have replied via CEDR saying no cash fare refund is due. only the £80 difference in tax and the difference in avios. i presume at this point it goes to arbitration?

[raynerdom]

ok. i guess if i reject the offer made by BA via CEDR, then CEDR will review the cancellation compensation offered as well as reviewing the correct downgrade reimbursement

[raynerdom]

ok but the flight wasn’t “brought forward” it was cancelled and i rebooked on an earlier flight which arrived more than 1 hour before my original scheduled flight so i think £260 per person is correct?

[raynerdom]

sorry i think i should clarify here. via CEDR i claimed £260 per passenger because my flight was More than 3,500km and the Departure was at least 1 hour earlier than booked flight arriving in the UK and was with a UK or EU airline . i also claimed downgrade reimbursement of £2668.50. I don’t have my exact workings but this would have been based off 75% of the cost off buying the air miles plus “taxes” for 2 passengers for a one way club class flight from Lax to LHR. both the claim for cancellation compensation and the claim for downgrade reimbursement were filed under the same claim. BA have offered £520 through CEDR so they are basically admitting that I am due cancellation compensation. However they are offering nothing for downgrade reimbursement as they say they have refunded me 46250 avios and £160 in taxes. I am going to reject the offer as the refund in avios and taxes is nowhere near the correct 75% reimbursement. I expect CEDR will find in my favour and make BA pay some downgrade reimbursement (probably less than my £2668.50 as they have already refunded some avios) as well as the £260 each that has already been offered by BA.

[raynerdom]

After several delays ba have finally admitted we are due £260 each for the cancellation. However they claim they have refunded one set of Avios 46250 and 2*£80 taxes and that therefore no downgrade compensation is due ( or reimbursement). The £520 offered is a final offer which I will lose if I take this to arbitration however they have already admitted liability for the cancellation compensation so it’s highly unlikely that this will be taken away if I continue to arbitration?

[raynerdom]

thanks. their email didn’t have a button or a reply address. just a customer service number which i called only to be told they couldn’t help me. i have updated my claim pointing out they have failed to address my claim for reimbursement. thanks for in forming me about article 14. they have consistently mislead me about my rights. i have contacted CEDR who advised me i could approach them 2 months after the original claim if i haven’t received any acceptable offer

[raynerdom]

they have replied from an email address that doesnt accept incoming mail and given me 5000 avios! i guess this is par for the course? they have completely ignored my request for reimbursement. they gave me a number to call where the operator told me that i had to make the claim online. they are just sending me round in circles. any idea as to the best way to contact them?

[raynerdom]

thanks. i have made a seperate claim in their customer relations portal. i have made it clear that we were involuntarily downgraded and quoted the text that you suggested

“we are seeking reimbursement due under CAA EC261/2004 Article 10 2(c) of 75% of the fare for both passengers and that under 2. of the same Article, such reimbursement must be paid within seven days”

if they refuse to pay me the reimbursement i’m owed i will go to CEDR and also query their refusal to pay cancellation compensation

[raynerdom]

Lady London wrote:

FWIW I think BA is lying through their teeth about effectively not having any other aircraft in the world except one 777 that was stuck in Toronto to do your flight. They’re really stretching this.

Personally regardless of views here that exceptional incident on earlier use of a plane originally scheduled to do a later flight an airline cancelled, would carry over to a raft of subsequent flights (or even to one, personally) except in very particular cases pertaining to the flight itself that was cancelled, just beggars belief. We are talking about airlines on a world scale and it’s reasonable to expect they should be able to arrange to deal with contingency.

Easyjet, for one, is excellent at rescheduling dynamically amongst their aircraft to meet contingency, and it seems here British Airways is even trying to say your flight could only have been flown by one particular aircraft and it had to be a 777. Really. I’d have more sympathy if they were trying to replace a 500-seater 380 which also needs specially configured 2-level gates at airports. A 777 is nothing in particular.

ok i’ll query this through CEDR if they fail to p[ay me the correct reimbursement for the downgrade

[raynerdom]

Lady London wrote:

no,do not accept *anything* for fare difference. If you do the airline will claim you settled just for that. Do *not* go there. Get the full downgrade reimbursement. Do not even refer to avios difference. Your claim is for a separately calculated 75% due back to you for downgrade and has *nothing* to do with any difference. Unless just the difference, which is a lot less, is all you want, of course.

And linguistically,do not ever say just ‘reimbursement’ without also saying “reimbursement due under [CAA .. / EC261/2004] of x% for downgrade. Reimbursement alone can just mean refund and you are not asking for a refund but a reimbursement due to downgrade.

yes i have asked if accepting avios and taxes is a seperate issue and have been informed that it is

Neha T (31/03/2023, 15:33:05): Dominic, I have raised the request to refund for the amount that is tax difference. I will not be able to share the details for the tax difference as it will be done by the refund team. For the refund of avios and taxes, we will send you the email. Going further, for the CAA rule compensation please proceed with the complaint link.
null (31/03/2023, 15:35:06): ok as long as receiving tax and avios refund doesnt exclude me from the caa reimbursement
Neha T (31/03/2023, 15:36:22): Do not worry, they are seperately handled, as in this platform we can only refund what you have paid for to the original source. And for the compensation you will need to raise the request with customer relation team.
null (31/03/2023, 15:36:30): ok

[raynerdom]

ok looks like i need to be very careful and specific. would it be ok if i drafted my reply on here for any useful comments?

[raynerdom]

they are trying to get away with just refunding the difference. i have replied quoting caa rules about 75% reimbursement

3:20 PM
Dominic, I have raised the request to refund for the amount that is tax difference. I will not be able to share the details for the tax difference as it will be done by the refund team.
3:24 PM
N
I am just trying if we can refund the avios for the fare difference at the moment.

[raynerdom]

they replied today to say i need to contact them seperately to claim a reimbursement. i initially added it to my claim for cancellation. obviously there is no section in their customer service portal that specifically deals with downgrade reimbursements

[raynerdom]

ok thanks. ill update my claim to ask for reimbursement

[raynerdom]

thank you. i will chase them about downgrade compensation

[raynerdom]

got an email this morning to say my claim has been refused. no mention of downgrade compensation

“We’re sorry it was necessary to cancel your flight to London Heathrow on 4th March’23 and understand why you needed to get in contact about this. We take all reasonable measures to avoid cancelling a flight and we’ll always consider if there are any alternative solutions available before we make a decision. We’d also like to thank you for your patience while we got back to you about this.

Your claim’s been refused because BA0280 on 4th March’23 was cancelled due to the lack of the particular type of 777 aircraft model not available at the moment as the one that was already scheduled for your journey was stuck in Toronto airport due to snow. Please also note that you arrived on the rebooked flight within three hours of your originally scheduled arrival time as well. We take all reasonable measures to avoid disruption to a flight and we always consider if there are any other alternative solutions before we make a decision. The cancellation was out of our control and caused unforeseen disruption to our schedule.”

[raynerdom]

thanks everyone. i have updated my claim to reflect that i expect 75% of the club class fare for both passengers as downgrade compensation. I’ll let you know how i get on