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Did you know Thameslink always declassifies the rear First Class carriage?

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As anyone who read my University Arms hotel review will know, I was in Cambridge recently to ferry my son to a summer school.

Whilst there are a number of rail options to Cambridge, we ended up on a Thameslink service from London St Pancras.

This reminded me of a little known bit of London rail trivia. The rear First Class carriage on Thameslink is always declassified.

By ‘declassified’, Thameslink means ‘is treated as Standard Class’.

This means that you can sit in the REAR First Class carriage on any Thameslink train with a Standard Class ticket.

It is confirmed on the Thameslink website here – click and expand the question ‘Is First Class available on all Thameslink trains?’.

You will NOT see any signage on the train to confirm this although it is often mentioned on the scrolling digital display inside.

As with all of the London suburban rail networks, First Class isn’t substantially better than Standard Class. You do, however, get a table and more spacious seating. I believe these are also the only carriages with power sockets. First Class is also quieter, even in the declassified coach, because most people don’t know that anyone can sit there.

(We had an American couple sat opposite us who, based on their conversation, had clearly paid for a First Class ticket. We hadn’t.)

The declassfied coach is identical to the ‘real’ First Class carriage at the front of the train. This is obvious when you think about it, because on the return journey the carriage that was at the front is now at the back!

ALL First Class is declassified on some routes

This information is REALLY hidden away, but some Thameslink routes declassify all of their First Class seats, at the front and the back of the train, because First Class tickets are not sold for those services.

There is a 2019 map showing these routes in this X post.

Assuming nothing has changed, both First Class carriages are declassified if your train terminates at:

  • Luton
  • St Albans
  • West Hampstead Thameslink
  • Kentish Town
  • Wimbledon
  • Sutton
  • Orpington
  • Rainham
  • Sevenoaks

Comments (63)

  • John says:

    It’s a bit dangerous to say that “both First Class carriages are declassified if your train __terminates__ at”…

    Because during disruption trains can be terminated short and that doesn’t make them have no 1st class. It is a criminal offence to be in 1st without the correct ticket and you cannot just “pay the difference” when caught.

    It would be better to say that both are declassified when trains are scheduled between those destinations under the usual timetable.

    If you aren’t sure just sit in the back one (at least if it’s useful to be at the back)

    • Paul says:

      It is not a criminal offence! It can lead to a penalty fare notice however, which in turn, if not paid, may lead to a private prosecution by the train company. GWR are well known for this and pursue people for £1.20. If ignored it can lead to conviction and disproportionate fines and costs amounting to £500 or even £600.
      The Reading Waterloo SWR route, incidentally the slowest train in Britain (at least if feels that way) is also standard class throughout.

      • Avant says:

        Sadly, boarding a train without a valid ticket, or failing to show a valid ticket when asked by an authorised person are indeed criminal matters because of the Railway Byelaws. People are regularly found guilty at Magistrates Court because they were stopped and didn’t have a ticket. It’s number 18 at this link: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a79c14b40f0b66d161ade8c/railway-byelaws.pdf

        Penalty Fares apply in certain areas of the railway (including Thameslink) and are an alternative option to deal with the matter that doesn’t involve admitting to the offence.

        • BA Flyer IHG Stayer says:

          Though unless you’re a complete …. they’ll first politely ask you to move to a standard carriage unless you’re prepared to pay the proper fare and only escalate to penalties after that.

          • Avant says:

            Unfortunately most inspectors would begin with the Penalty Fare which would be the full fare first class single plus £50 on top (it’s actually £100 but you get a discount to £50 if you pay within 14 days). This is however a far cheaper option than the costs and fine you’d be ordered to pay at Magistrates Court, which would run to many hundreds, and of course no criminal record. So yes it is better but they’re entitled to charge you rather than giving you the option to move. That said, if you have only just sat down a few seconds ago they may be a lot more disposed to forgive and forget if you offer to move than if you’re 2 minutes until the last stop.

          • Fennec says:

            The joys of using the train in Little England coupled with good old English law.

          • Londonsteve says:

            If the only ‘crime’ is sitting in first when you’ve got a standard class ticket, surely the penalty should be the fare difference between a full fare single and first ticket with the £100 fine on top, reduced to £50 if paid promptly. A standard class ticket holder HAS a valid ticket for the service and shouldn’t be made to pay this again. Does anyone know if ‘revenue protection’ are on commission making a heavy handed approach easier to understand? Railway ticket collectors and parking wardens are the only two manifestations of authority that really seem to ‘work’ in the UK at the moment. That, and digital speed enforcement; nearly every one I know has recently received a speeding fine.

    • Londonsteve says:

      I’d agree with a cautious approach as, in extremis, getting caught ‘fare dodging’ could be career terminating for some people. I can foresee of circumstances where lost post, a change of address or just forgetfulness results in a prosecution and conviction. I believe this ends up on one’s criminal record. If only the authorities employed the same militant approach against shoplifting and treated it as, you know, a crime…

  • IslandDweller says:

    All trains between London Bridge and Rainham (Kent) via Greenwich are standard class only. This includes Thameslink trains which nominally have a first section.
    I’ve never thought it worth bothering about as there is so little differentiation or benefit compared to the rest of the train.

  • Justin says:

    It’s important to know that this is only on class 700 trains! I don’t use the route described personally and the trains might all be class 700, but on Thameslink out of Kings Cross towards Stevenage and Cambridge other rolling stock can be used and this rule doesn’t then apply…

  • Sam says:

    Glad I read this as I’d confidently plonked myself in the forward first class carriage last weekend. Just as well I’ve never seen a ticket inspector on Thameslink. Wonder how often they have to explain the intricacies of what and when are declassified

  • Dave says:

    There is signage on the electronic displays in the rear first class areas that state ‘this area nay be used by holders of standard tickets’. These scroll through info such as train loading, stops, toilets, etc. so it may take a minute to get to the confirmation. Advantage is some seats have tables but that’s about it – and you have a long way to walk to get to the ‘first’ area

  • Phantomchickenz says:

    Shhhhhhh!

    • John G says:

      Writing this from a relatively quiet Thameslink “first class” (standard class) section, I would have to agree!

  • Nick says:

    Been using Thameslink for years – but still have this burning question

    From my home station to Gatwick (changing at Farringdon) , a ticket on Thameslink is c £22 for a single off peak.

    Using contactless is about £11

    Why????

    • Nick says:

      … a ticket from the official Thameslink website is. £22 …

    • Chas says:

      Is your home station on Thameslink? If not, and you’re using some element of another service, I *think* that it’s because technically you’re meant to swipe in and out at Farringdon, so that’s how the ticket is sold. But, with contactless it doesn’t default that way. Happy to be corrected by ticketing experts though, as it does seem like madness to me.

      On a much smaller scale, if I do a contactless peak return journey from my local station to Farringdon (with no connections), contactless is 40p more expensive than if I buy via Uber (before factoring in the 5% cash back I get). Go figure…

      • Rob says:

        3% now!

      • Bill says:

        How do you buy the train ticket via Uber? I commute to farringdon from Finsbury park and never heard of this method!

        • Chas says:

          On the homepage of the app is an icon for “train and coach”, and you buy the tickets via there. When it launched you got 10% cash back which was a good incentive, but that reduced to 5% a while back (although as per Rob’s comment potentially reduced/reducing further…).

    • Londonsteve says:

      Contactless is usually cheaper to incentivise people to use it in order to cut down on ticket office staffing and the costs of ticket machines. It’s priced broadly in line with Railcard discounted paper tickets. Peak time can be cheaper with a paper ticket, especially if you have a rebate offer or buy a combined ‘peak day return Travelcard’ which includes London travel. Depends where you need to go and how much you plan to use TfL services that day. Off peak only the Railcard discounted ‘cheap day returns’ can work out cheaper than contactless, or weekend and summer specials run by the TOCs when trains are running with light loads and are restricted to their services only. Super off peak fares during weekends and bank holidays on Thameslink are an example and they’re available throughout the year.

    • FL360 says:

      Contactless fares are generally set as roughly half of the paper return fare. But that’s based on a Day Return, so if you’re not returning the same day, this itself makes it cheaper to use contactless.

  • Philondon says:

    Don’t tell everyone!!! 1st class in the back carriage is often packed with no seats available. Often get a more comfortable journey in a regular carriage.

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