-
BA cancelled my 19:40 flight from WAW to LHR yesterday with less than 24h notice and put me on their 16:20 service. Does anyone know if I qualify for a compensation? Instead of being more than 3h late, I lost more than 3h at the point of departure.
Depends partly on the reason for cancellation, eg if weather related then no.
Otherwise – In case of cancellation, you are also entitled to compensation in the following circumstances:a) You are given less than 7 days’ notice of the cancellation and you are offered rerouting which leaves more than an hour earlier than originally scheduled or arrives at your final destination more than 2 hours later than originally scheduled.
Although the 16.20 was delayed, departure shown as 18.15 so just over an hour earlier
Yes, the 16:20 flight was delayed by nearly two hours. So not only I lost 3 hours of my day in Warsaw, I also ended up waiting 2 extra hours at the airport. BA did not provide any cancelation reason for the 19:40 service. No email, no text message, nothing, it just showed in the app when I tried to check-in 24h ahead that the flight was cancelled. Few hours before that when I checked the seating options, there was no indication of the cancellation. So, because the 16:20 flight was delayed, I do not qualify for the compensation?
Depends partly on the reason for cancellation, eg if weather related then no.
Otherwise – In case of cancellation, you are also entitled to compensation in the following circumstances:a) You are given less than 7 days’ notice of the cancellation and you are offered rerouting which leaves more than an hour earlier than originally scheduled or arrives at your final destination more than 2 hours later than originally scheduled.
Although the 16.20 was delayed, departure shown as 18.15 so just over an hour earlier
Article 5.1(iii) isn’t correctly copied above. The word ‘or’ has replaced ‘and’ which changes the meaning. While there is a favourable decision of the ECJ in this regards (early departure being tantamount to a cancellation) it is from December 2021, thus post dating Brexit so not binding on an English court. In any event the adverse weather yesterday is likely to trump everything such that no compensation will be payable.
Thank you. The AND/OR change makes a significant difference here. As the flight departed from the WAW airport, the EU law applies. I will claim the compensation and if rejected claim under the Polish Aviation Authority.
Thank you. The AND/OR change makes a significant difference here. As the flight departed from the WAW airport, the EU law applies. I will claim the compensation and if rejected claim under the Polish Aviation Authority.
I would apply directly in Poland; there seems little point going through the process in England. Someone will test this in England one day, but it won’t be simple.
I guess you could send a letter by post to BA Legal and say you will pursue this in Poland. Maybe they’ll give you compensation straight away.
Thank you @JDB for pointing out the change in the EU law. Looking at the exact wording of the EU261/2004 Article 5.1(C/iii) I do in fact qualify for the compensation under the EU law.
Article 5: Cancellation
Point 1: In case of cancellation of a flight, the passengers concerned shall:
sub C: have the right to compensation by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 7, unless:
excl iii: they are informed of the cancellation less than seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than one hour before the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than two hours after the scheduled time of arrival.https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32004R0261:en:HTML
Let’s see what BA will say about that. I will keep you updated.
Whilst the ECJ riling isn’t binding on UK courts the can take it into account and the various bits of Brexit legislation allow for that. It’s part of the stability mechanism for making sure there isn’t a sudden divergence between the EU and UK that could cause problems.
Of course the UK courts system will want a proper citation of the case and not not a general “Europe allows it”
Perhaps just quoting the case citation (rather than a “see you on Warsaw”) when communicating within BA Legal will release any log jam because this ruling clearly applies to BA flights leaving the EU area. Legal will be aware of that but not necessarily customer services.
Thank you. So writing to BA Legal instead of contacting the Customer Service first should be appropriate course of action? Is there an email address to BA Legal?
Are things so bad with big name companies that we can assume they won’t do the correct thing voluntarily (or without putting up a fight)?
Thank you. So writing to BA Legal instead of contacting the Customer Service first should be appropriate course of action? Is there an email address to BA Legal?
You need to go through customer services first.
@Gosia44 the problem is with the ‘and’. You are fine in Poland but BA won’t cooperate. In any event the nuances of the wording may be completely irrelevant if your flight was cancelled owing to weather related ATC restrictions which was most likely the case yesterday. You need to check this before you do anything.
The flight was cancelled exactly 24 hours before departure so unlikely that BA would be able to predict the exact weather conditions ahead of time.
Claim submitted to the Customer Service citing the EU law and details. If I get a rejection then BA Legal followed by ULC (Polish Aviation Authority)The flight was cancelled exactly 24 hours before departure so unlikely that BA would be able to predict the exact weather conditions ahead of time.
Claim submitted to the Customer Service citing the EU law and details. If I get a rejection then BA Legal followed by ULC (Polish Aviation Authority)There was already a severe weather warning in place the day before. Of course, that might be unrelated but don’t count on the cash just yet.
Of course BA will try to reject. I am fully aware of that. If the weather was an issue (24 hours in advance) then why did BA cancel that particular flight? They could have canceled any of the other three fights departing from Warsaw to Heathrow on that day. Did they precisely know that the bad weather would affect the 19:40 service but not the one at 16:20 or 12:50 or 8:00?
The bit that I find hard to believe (other than the weather) is that the customer service “may not” be aware of the EU Law. Is it us, customers, who need to educate the big global firms of their global obligations under different jurisdictions? It is just a game to see who bothers to take them to court abroad. I went through the court route in Poland against BA in the past and happy to do it again if needed but that’s of course, very time consuming.
If there are ATC restrictions or airlines asked by ATC to reduce their number of flights, the airline can choose which flight they cancel, and that exempts them from paying compo.
Of course it’s really clear BA is going to take such get-out-of-jail-free cards and consolidate flights using ATC as an excuse to avoid paying compo, but there is nothing you can do about it.
I’d be as furious as you about having my day messed up and then ending up travelling very close to when I had booked anyway, thanks to their delays. But as @JDB and others have said, it’s highly likely BA will get away with it.
Crisis=opportunity for BA and from the multiple reports on here they’re not letting any weather or ATC opportunity go to waste to cut their expenses whilst successfully exempting themselves from the normal legal requirement to compensate passengers they’ve massively inconvenienced.
Of course BA will try to reject. I am fully aware of that. If the weather was an issue (24 hours in advance) then why did BA cancel that particular flight? They could have canceled any of the other three fights departing from Warsaw to Heathrow on that day. Did they precisely know that the bad weather would affect the 19:40 service but not the one at 16:20 or 12:50 or 8:00?
The bit that I find hard to believe (other than the weather) is that the customer service “may not” be aware of the EU Law. Is it us, customers, who need to educate the big global firms of their global obligations under different jurisdictions? It is just a game to see who bothers to take them to court abroad. I went through the court route in Poland against BA in the past and happy to do it again if needed but that’s of course, very time consuming.
Unfortunately, even under EU law an airline can choose which flights to cancel when they receive instructions from ATC and you can never win on the argument that it was a commercial/practical decision to cancel your specific flight. This happens in every bad weather mass cancellation episode. The fact is you arrived safely; the weather situation was extremely serious with, amongst many other emergencies, two Emirates A380’s having to divert.
BA is of course very familiar with UK & EU law, but they along with every other European airline will regularly deny legitimate claims until pressed by an outside power. However, it sounds as though you are prepared to do a lot to get €250 even though BA holds the weather trump card.
Thank you everyone. Let’s see what BA says. I am a native Polish speaker and very familiar with Polish institutions so dealing with ULC (Polish Aviation Authority) in Warsaw is not a problem. Their advice is free and if they side with BA then of course I will give up the court route. If it was a different country/language I am not sure I would bother.
Depends partly on the reason for cancellation, eg if weather related then no.
Otherwise – In case of cancellation, you are also entitled to compensation in the following circumstances:a) You are given less than 7 days’ notice of the cancellation and you are offered rerouting which leaves more than an hour earlier than originally scheduled or arrives at your final destination more than 2 hours later than originally scheduled.
Although the 16.20 was delayed, departure shown as 18.15 so just over an hour earlier
Article 5.1(iii) isn’t correctly copied above. The word ‘or’ has replaced ‘and’ which changes the meaning. While there is a favourable decision of the ECJ in this regards (early departure being tantamount to a cancellation) it is from December 2021, thus post dating Brexit so not binding on an English court. In any event the adverse weather yesterday is likely to trump everything such that no compensation will be payable.
Although the ECJ judgment is not legally binding in the way that pre-Brexit ones are, it seems incredibly unlikely that a British Court (especially at the County Court level) wouldn’t rule in line with it. The wording of the relevant sections of UK261 remains identical to EU261, after all – it’s not as if the ECJ was interpreting legislation that was materially different.
There have been cases of far more removed Court rulings, such as from Canada, Australia or the US, being seen as influential.
Out of the reasons why this claim might fail, I really don’t think that this is one that even registers.
@baec_newbie – we often consider judgments from the countries you mention because, like us, they are common law jurisdictions. Most European law is very different. The reason it might be problematic here is that the ECJ decision is not to be found in the actual wording of the law. It took 17 years until the ECJ made this purposive decision, determining that early was as bad as late. I’m sure someone will try it here but will take a fairly bold/creative judge to make a decision in an English court that isn’t what the rules actually say and it might be appealed. The passenger would need to put together some powerfully argued submissions. If you are genuinely interested you should read or listen to Lord Sumption on the subject of judicial overreach.
I managed to extract some compo from BA once for an early flight that caused me to clock up an extra hotel night. I’m not sure if that was goodwill or not. My reading of the 261 regs led me to believe I was not entitled under those rules to anything. Of course, contract law, consumer protection law and T&Cs still apply even when 261 doesn’t, so no harm in reading the fine print on your ticket and then claiming.
The weather (wind) was bad on Monday – multiple go arounds and diverts. BA will have been told to reduce their schedule due to the weather and wouldn’t be paying compo on these flights. I can’t see a regulator / adjudicator / court in any jurisdiction forcing them to pay out
If you didn’t want to travel earlier you could have selected a later flight and if that was the next day then they would have paid duty of care – hotel, meals (no alcohol) etc
Thanks @SamG. I think the conversation here moved away from the compo in this particular case and I do accept the weather conditions were bad.
Importantly we now have clarity around the general application of the EU law that passengers are entitled to compensation if an alternative flight departs early (by more than one hour). This is not (yet) available under the UK Law.I think the weather had settled by Monday evening. Which makes it even more strange that my 21:00 flight was cancelled from Geneva. I doubt I will get compensation for that flight, but I’ve put one in anyway. They still have to pay for the hotel though.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Popular articles this week:
