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Obviously gate staff cost money, but so does wasted time. Proper enforcement of boarding groups would delay in the short term, but benefit in the longer term. A gate agent whose sole purpose is to sit or send away gate lice in groups not yet called would benefit the boarding process. Those who choose to argue or delay don’t fly.
Allocating boarding groups by ticket type or status alone makes no sense. LHR-CDG flights have half the plane as G1.
Status and ticket type should contribute to you boarding group, but the final group should be determined by check-in. BA for example know the status of all passengers, and how many CE tickets they’ve sold. Then the first 30 golds or CE to check-in are G1, the next 30 G2, the first 30 silvers G3, etc. etc. I’m gold and wouldn’t care at all if G2 or G3, if people see CE as more of a priority, AA do this on Transcons where G1 is First, and probably CK, not sure.
But the key to smooth boarding is not over allocating G1, enforcement, and removing crowding at the barriers. Difficult initially but once a pattern is established it’ll speed up.
Never understood why they board people with kids first, not unusual to see a couple with two teenagers join this group, those with toddlers tend to be up and down to begin with, blocking aisle and delaying the process, boarding them later would minimise this.
Lastly and obviously enforce hand baggage limits, including minimise allowed luggage on HBO tickets. People just bring big bags expecting to check them, or bring them on-board regardless.
A lot of this just doesn’t matter, if as I expect most of us are talking about BA, having enough planes, crew and ground staff to operate the timetable you’ve sold flights on the basis of, much more important than the boarding process.
Alternately just allocate those to G1 who are properly dressed in natural fabrics with a sense of timeless chic. Baggy sportswear types G7.
Im sure I read at some point that EU law doesnt allow airlines to restrict access to the restrooms based on cabin. They may try to disuade by sectioning it off etc but that they cant actually refuse to let someone use them?
— boarding groups 1 – 12 (short haul) 1 – 24 (long haul)
– pseudo-random assignment of passengers to groups, but solo travellers with window seats “biased” to first few groups
– if your group isn’t called your BP wont work and you are sent to the back of the queue
– call a new group every fifty seconds if boarding is proceeding smoothlyThis has several benefits over systems boarding certain groups in priority — most important of which is *it’s quicker*.
— boarding groups 1 – 12 (short haul) 1 – 24 (long haul)
– pseudo-random assignment of passengers to groups, but solo travellers with window seats “biased” to first few groups
– if your group isn’t called your BP wont work and you are sent to the back of the queue
– call a new group every fifty seconds if boarding is proceeding smoothlyThis has several benefits over systems boarding certain groups in priority — most important of which is *it’s quicker*.
You are right, this is a very efficient boarding system – in the absence of cabin bag politics and practicalities. Unless and until that is addressed consistently, there will remain a perverse incentive to board early. Surely some game theorists should be working on this.
Im sure I read at some point that EU law doesnt allow airlines to restrict access to the restrooms based on cabin. They may try to disuade by sectioning it off etc but that they cant actually refuse to let someone use them?
It’s certainly the case in the US. Not sure about Europe. Pretty sure it was a European airline where I read that story online (here or FT) about a woman with a medical condition who when she felt the urge to go, she had to go asap. And after being rebuffed from the front cabin, ahe wet herself while arguing the toss at the Y toilets.
Obviously gate staff cost money, but so does wasted time. Proper enforcement of boarding groups would delay in the short term, but benefit in the longer term. A gate agent whose sole purpose is to sit or send away gate lice in groups not yet called would benefit the boarding process. Those who choose to argue or delay don’t fly.
Allocating boarding groups by ticket type or status alone makes no sense. LHR-CDG flights have half the plane as G1.
Status and ticket type should contribute to you boarding group, but the final group should be determined by check-in. BA for example know the status of all passengers, and how many CE tickets they’ve sold. Then the first 30 golds or CE to check-in are G1, the next 30 G2, the first 30 silvers G3, etc. etc. I’m gold and wouldn’t care at all if G2 or G3, if people see CE as more of a priority, AA do this on Transcons where G1 is First, and probably CK, not sure.
But the key to smooth boarding is not over allocating G1, enforcement, and removing crowding at the barriers. Difficult initially but once a pattern is established it’ll speed up.
Never understood why they board people with kids first, not unusual to see a couple with two teenagers join this group, those with toddlers tend to be up and down to begin with, blocking aisle and delaying the process, boarding them later would minimise this.
Lastly and obviously enforce hand baggage limits, including minimise allowed luggage on HBO tickets. People just bring big bags expecting to check them, or bring them on-board regardless.
A lot of this just doesn’t matter, if as I expect most of us are talking about BA, having enough planes, crew and ground staff to operate the timetable you’ve sold flights on the basis of, much more important than the boarding process.
Alternately just allocate those to G1 who are properly dressed in natural fabrics with a sense of timeless chic. Baggy sportswear types G7.
Thank you for validating my stance on families with kids. Last on please. How many times have I boarded to find a family struggling to wrangle their kids out of the J rows because kids being kids, they decided they’d sit down on the first empty seat.
I think you’re advocating for a fare type below HBO only, of personal item only? People would still take the mick. As you say, enforcement of size is all that’s needed. At a guess I’d say I own 6 cabin cases of varying sizes to cover all airlines.
P.S. Timeless chic? I see you JDB…
Special assistance / wheelchair people need to go on first or last, not somewhere in between.
They seem to be taken off last to avoid holding everyone else up, which makes sense, so maybe they need to board last too?I imagine it’s easier to board special assistance first when there is more room for maneuverung them, less chance of them or anyone else being knocked/injured in the process and also more dignified for the person.
My son is a bit of a geek who likes mathematical models and insists that completely random boarding (IIRC) is the quickest because of the way pax fan out to fill their seats. He even tried to make me watch a YouTube video which apparently has a cartoon demonstrating the principle!
A few years ago we flew Latam SCL-GIG. Lollipops with boarding groups appeared and everyone stood in line according to their group. Worked really well, no complaints and everyone well behaved! AA are very good a making queue jumping pax, walk the walk of shame ‘ stand aside ,you are not in group x’ AA pax are well behaved in that the majority know to remain seated until their group is called. Keeps the gate area clear. I do get fed up with the scrum to board and depending on my mood, will either be the bossy ‘entitled’ ‘let me through’ or go with the flow……There’s seat for me so why worry!
Gate staff don’t really care, they just want everyone through asap.
I go for board the back of the plane first and work forwards, with CS making sure no sneaky use of overhead bins in CE. Many pax don’t realise there is a wee pull-out button on the side of the headrest infront to hook their jacket on.might free up a bit more space above if everyone used the hook.I found four recent Qantas domestic flights the most efficient for boarding, simply because they board the back rows via rear steps and the front via the jetty – people seem to comply even though there is no enforcement. The group ‘system’ is clearly a total nonsense vs properly enforced row by row boarding.
The enemy of efficient boarding is excessive hand luggage that people can’t properly manage and many can’t even lift into the overhead as required. This also creates bottlenecks at security and daily incidents on escalators at LHR with people not being able to cope safely with all their bags/coats etc.
My son is a bit of a geek who likes mathematical models and insists that completely random boarding (IIRC) is the quickest because of the way pax fan out to fill their seats. He even tried to make me watch a YouTube video which apparently has a cartoon demonstrating the principle!
I once watched this YouTube on the “The Better Boarding Method Airlines Won’t Use”. Random is far better than back to front, but not the best method:
https://youtu.be/oAHbLRjF0vo— boarding groups 1 – 12 (short haul) 1 – 24 (long haul)
– pseudo-random assignment of passengers to groups, but solo travellers with window seats “biased” to first few groups
– if your group isn’t called your BP wont work and you are sent to the back of the queue
– call a new group every fifty seconds if boarding is proceeding smoothlyThis has several benefits over systems boarding certain groups in priority — most important of which is *it’s quicker*.
You are right, this is a very efficient boarding system – in the absence of cabin bag politics and practicalities. Unless and until that is addressed consistently, there will remain a perverse incentive to board early. Surely some game theorists should be working on this.
No group boarding system works if you don’t enforce no loitering at the entrance. You’re G1 which is the only group called, yet 50 people are crowded round the area of the entrance to the barrier, do you wait thinking they’re just moving slowly, or push through risking DYNWIA behaviour.
Does anyone remember the E170s from LCY? Lovely small planes with infrequent boarding problems.
If we are looking at other countries’ models, surely Japanese domestic flights win. I don’t know how they do it, but boarding starts 10 minutes before the flight and the flight still departs on time. It’s boarding by groups, but they also seem to bring less hand luggage on board.
The enemy of efficient boarding is excessive hand luggage that people can’t properly manage and many can’t even lift into the overhead as required.
The fix for that is charge for the overhead case as well as the underseat/personal item. And enforce it.
Frankly with the horrific cost to the environment of flying there’s a case for weighing the passenger and all luggage/items, and charging those over allowance. Travelling light isn’t just a good idea for cruising quickly through the airport.
The enemy of efficient boarding is excessive hand luggage that people can’t properly manage and many can’t even lift into the overhead as required.
The fix for that is charge for the overhead case as well as the underseat/personal item. And enforce it.
Frankly with the horrific cost to the environment of flying there’s a case for weighing the passenger and all luggage/items, and charging those over allowance. Travelling light isn’t just a good idea for cruising quickly through the airport.
Yes, there should be a higher charge for the overhead case vs checking it in; this would greatly enhance everyone’s flight/journey through the airport.
The enemy of efficient boarding is excessive hand luggage that people can’t properly manage and many can’t even lift into the overhead as required.
The fix for that is charge for the overhead case as well as the underseat/personal item. And enforce it.
Frankly with the horrific cost to the environment of flying there’s a case for weighing the passenger and all luggage/items, and charging those over allowance. Travelling light isn’t just a good idea for cruising quickly through the airport.
Yes, there should be a higher charge for the overhead case vs checking it in; this would greatly enhance everyone’s flight/journey through the airport.
And decrease the enjoyment/work ability during the flight of others and the post flight enjoyment of those who prefer HBO to waiting for checked luggage.
Im sure I read at some point that EU law doesnt allow airlines to restrict access to the restrooms based on cabin. They may try to disuade by sectioning it off etc but that they cant actually refuse to let someone use them?
It’s certainly the case in the US. Not sure about Europe. Pretty sure it was a European airline where I read that story online (here or FT) about a woman with a medical condition who when she felt the urge to go, she had to go asap. And after being rebuffed from the front cabin, ahe wet herself while arguing the toss at the Y toilets.
I guess part of the result of that was she also had to sit back tightly in her same seat for landing? so next passenger may or may not have known they had a wet seat, and a professional crew would have presumably had to block that seat until the aircraft was cleaned.
There is a certain sense of Schadenfreude here.
@Peter K the problem is that people totally abuse the rules and it is, as a practical matter, difficult to enforce properly. People carry quantities of cases, backpacks, bags, big coats etc. that delay everyone’s journey at several stages and create danger for others. Hand luggage incidents on escalators are the biggest single cause of airport ambulance service call-outs. If you wish to travel HBO, it has to be reasonable and not pushing or exceeding the limits. The system of hand baggage allowances was designed around a % of people using the max and many not. Since all the baggage issues of 2021/22 the quantity of hand luggage being taken on board has grown out of all proportion. It is creating enormous problems at security and boarding / turnaround times have been compromised as well. If most people were reasonable about this, it would be fine but they aren’t so charges are for many airlines the easier option over stricter enforcement and this will become the norm. The current situation is untenable for commercial and safety reasons.
Airlines have consistently pushed for people to stick to HBO, though, especially the LCCs. And you can easily pay £40 each way for a checked bag on one of these. And in the US, of course, charging for checked bags is the norm. Coupled with not being able to be sure your luggage is going to arrive with you, or having to wait a ridiculous amount of time to get it (90 minutes on our last trip that involved checked bags), there’s little incentive for people to put it in the hold!
@JDB, I bet you’re dreading the day the current liquid rules are finally jettisoned!Airlines have consistently pushed for people to stick to HBO, though, especially the LCCs. And you can easily pay £40 each way for a checked bag on one of these. And in the US, of course, charging for checked bags is the norm. Coupled with not being able to be sure your luggage is going to arrive with you, or having to wait a ridiculous amount of time to get it (90 minutes on our last trip that involved checked bags), there’s little incentive for people to put it in the hold!
@JDB, I bet you’re dreading the day the current liquid rules are finally jettisoned!We paid EasyJet for hold luggage. 5hr layover at LGW for INV flight should have ensured all bags would arrive in Inverness. Needless to say 10 hold bags arrived out of 11 and mine was the one missing! Arrived 2 days later
@JDB, I bet you’re dreading the day the current liquid rules are finally jettisoned!@Northern Lass – why would I dread it that? It’s a good thing, although I’m not sure people have worked out that the new scanners actually make security slower even if liquids, laptops etc don’t need to be taken out. The problem lies with selfish/entitled people who exploit and or exceed the hand luggage limits which don’t get checked until the gate when staff know the type and the likely abuse, so often leave them alone. When BA calls at the gate for people to check in hand luggage, nice people comply, others don’t. The increase in leisure business class travellers and status holders has exacerbated the problem as too many block the aisle take an age to put their luggage, bag, take off their coat in a leisurely manner etc. while the pros do it in seconds. That’s why the process will have to change – it’s now costing airlines money (and a potential source of revenue).
If we are looking at other countries’ models, surely Japanese domestic flights win. I don’t know how they do it, but boarding starts 10 minutes before the flight and the flight still departs on time. It’s boarding by groups, but they also seem to bring less hand luggage on board.
I would be more comfortable checking in a bag on a domestic route too. Because there’s a certain comfort in familiarity that if my bag fails to arrive from say LHR to MAN, I’ll be sufficiently culturally and linguistically equipped to deal with it and any requirements in the meantime. However, ask me to go with bare bones personal item on say a weekend away in Portugal? Well, no thanks. I’d want at least a small cabin case too for essential clothing and footwear to avoid the entire weekend being a disaster. Imagine going to hotel breakfast and not having JJ’s suede driving loafers to wear!
Im sure I read at some point that EU law doesnt allow airlines to restrict access to the restrooms based on cabin. They may try to disuade by sectioning it off etc but that they cant actually refuse to let someone use them?
It’s certainly the case in the US. Not sure about Europe. Pretty sure it was a European airline where I read that story online (here or FT) about a woman with a medical condition who when she felt the urge to go, she had to go asap. And after being rebuffed from the front cabin, ahe wet herself while arguing the toss at the Y toilets.
I guess part of the result of that was she also had to sit back tightly in her same seat for landing? so next passenger may or may not have known they had a wet seat, and a professional crew would have presumably had to block that seat until the aircraft was cleaned.
There is a certain sense of Schadenfreude here.
She wet herself in the galley/aisle, waiting outside the toilet alongside other passengers. In fairness at a certain level of infirmity one has to consider medical devices for such purposes.
You have reminded me of one flight I took in Y (shudder) in 2010, DUB to ORD. So a solid 9hrs or so. I was seated left side of a middle section of 4 seats, with 2 kids and their mother at the right aisle. Upon disembarking I noticed that both kids had wet their seats at some point. Sodding wet seat cushions. God help the next passengers.
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