Rolls-Royce and Airbus support £500m Virgin Atlantic coronavirus bail-out

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• Stephen says:

  1 Apr1 April 22:52

  Has anyone successfully made a S75 for consequential loss for airline insolvency / cancelled flights, in terms of getting a new flight booked (if not already abroad)?

  If so, what credit card provider? Was it a reward booking or cash?

  Thanks

  • Rob says:

    1 Apr1 April 23:01

    Never heard of being done but, to be fair, there has never been a major UK insolvency. When airberlin went down, for example, I reckon under 100 people had unflown long haul flights.

    • marcw says:

      1 Apr1 April 23:03

      Was Thomas Cook not big enough for you? I bet they transported more passengers than Virgin Atlantic.

      • Rob says:

        1 Apr1 April 23:14

        We’re talking about using S75 on redemptions.

        If you have 2 Upper booked on VS can you make your card company buy you 2 x BA Business Class seats?

    • Stephen says:

      1 Apr1 April 23:07

      Thanks Rob, I had 3 x ANA (Virgin) redemption to Tokyo next week. Looking to reschedule for April 2020, but they won’t book further than 331 days.

      I’m in two minds whether to book something in for Dec 2020, and change the date at a later time (if Virgin are still around) with the hope that S75 would cover it

  • Mark says:

    1 Apr1 April 23:18

    I’ve just booked a one-way from Sao Paulo to Heathrow in upper class next February for 70,000 miles plus $24 in tax. In theory there’s a $50 cancellation penalty, though since that’s more than the tax I’m not sure if they would insist on payment of the extra to release the miles.

    Paid for the tax on an Amex Gold credit card, so we’ll see if it comes to it what a S75 claim yields….

    • Stephen says:

      1 Apr1 April 23:28

      Will that be covered if less than £100? Depends if they view the miles as having any financial value?

      • Mark says:

        1 Apr1 April 23:54

        If they don’t I figure I’m not going to get any more than the tax back anyway…. In that case even if I lose the $24 I’m not much worse off and I don’t have hundreds tied up in taxes and fees in the meantime.

      • Mark says:

        2 Apr2 April 00:00

        The alternative I was looking at was a return to Delhi in upper class – £520 plus 75,000 miles.

• Opuada says:

  1 Apr1 April 23:27

  Yeah they put BA to shame but have absolutely nothing to show for it. 82M in reserves going into this crisis? that sounds like a fat joke to me

  • Rob says:

    1 Apr1 April 23:40

    £480m cash at end of 2018. Financial Times was wrong and corrected their article.

    • Opuada says:

      2 Apr2 April 00:31

      oh thats makes more sense. I still think they dont’ really give BA that much run for threir money

• r* says:

  1 Apr1 April 23:31

  Does making a VS points booking offer any sort of protection for the points being lost? ie book flight on points, airline goes bankrupt does s75 cover the flight? And if virgin are still around by christmas, the points booking could be cancelled for £30?

  • Rob says:

    1 Apr1 April 23:42

    That’s what we’re discussing. No-one knows. You can argue that under S75 the card company has to buy you cash flights.

    It would not be a crazy gamble given the low canx fee.

    • Charlieface says:

      2 Apr2 April 03:14

      I wouldn’t say no-one knows.
      That the credit card has joint liability to fulfil the contract is undisputed. There was some discussion whether EC261 is actually contractual, but the FOS seemed to have ruled it is and allowed S75 claims. The only remaining question is whether a cash refund includes the notional value of the miles, in the case of vouchers used for a purchase they ruled the refund should include it. I haven’t heard of our specific case yet, though.

      • TGLoyalty says:

        2 Apr2 April 13:03

        But under S.75 you wouldn’t ask for a cash refund you would ask for replacement flights.

        That’s why you need to make sure you book a flight you actually want to use as you will get your taxes back or a replacement flight. Your flying club miles are worthless in a scenario where flying club has gone bankrupt

        • Charlieface says:

          2 Apr2 April 15:09

          No, the S75 claim would be for the airline’s contract, which allows you to choose a full refund or a reroute if the flight is changed.

        • Mark says:

          2 Apr2 April 17:01

          And in most cases surely your credit card company wouldn’t and couldn’t book you replacement flights anyway.

          I wonder if in the case of Amex they might offer Avios/MR points to book the equivalent BA flights, which may work out cheaper for them (especially for Upper Class redemptions) and would provide the closest equivalent recompense.

          I’d be happy with that as an outcome, so long as BA does survive with the EC programme intact….

          Not everyone is going to be able to book flights they actually want to use of course, as they may have no immediate plans, or enough miles (without risking further cash/MR points/Clubcard points etc.)

• Stephen says:

  1 Apr1 April 23:31

  I wonder if Virgin Atlantic credit card (Virgin Money) have any liability for the lost miles if Flying Club no longer exists?

  I guess the best that they would provide is a refund of the yearly fees?

  • Mark says:

    1 Apr1 April 23:58

    I would have thought any current year fee at least since they can no longer honor the miles earning benefit.

• Jack R says:

  2 Apr2 April 00:29

  This gave me a good chuckle, from Reuters last April.

  (Reuters) – After reporting a loss for two straight years Virgin Atlantic is targeting a return to profitability in 2021, helped in part by the launch of new routes and its acquisition of British regional airline Flybe.

  • Jack R says:

    2 Apr2 April 00:32

    More fateful words from the same article – “Virgin Atlantic’s finance chief Tom Mackay said that while economic factors would continue to challenge the carrier in the year ahead, it was in a strong cash position.”
    Little did he know….

• Wendy says:

  2 Apr2 April 05:20

  Just a quick thank you to Rob and the team for keeping us informed of what you have during this time. Thanks to you I was ahead of the game when it came to figuring out how to move forward regarding my 2-4-1 Avios flights to Toronto on the 17th April.

  In the end they had a class change (lost the 1st class cabin) and provided me with the First class phone number so I was able to call and cancel and had no charges. But I was fully prepared for doing it online with the workaround provided here. Plus just keeping up to date with the daily happenings, often having the info here before BA emailed.

  Thanks for all you do to keep us in the loop.

• John Pagani says:

  2 Apr2 April 05:47

  I for one would just like to say, we are not sure how long this situation will last for. If you feel the need to boost your income, feel free to start a Patreon account. A couple of quid a month from many of your supporters would make up for you lost income. Head for points has saved me literally thousands and taught me how to fly in First, sitting next to the Beckhams on my travels as well as meeting a wealthy business women who helps me support the 80 street children we look after in Delhi. I owe you one!

  • Nick_C says:

    3 Apr3 April 00:31

    Flying in First can be great, but if I had to sit next to the Beckhams I’d be asking for a downgrade.

• Andrew says:

  2 Apr2 April 08:49

  It’s easy to play this game.

  Remember Virgin Trains? Their key shareholder, and one time major funder of the SNP, funded the “Keep the Clause” campaign to oppose the plans to repeal Section 2A, contributing £1M of his own cash towards the campaign.

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