Virgin Group to run trains through the Channel Tunnel?

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• david says:

  14 Nov14 November 05:11

  From behind, I could have sworn that was you next to yellow jacket guy.

• Andrew J says:

  14 Nov14 November 05:42

  Running the service from Stratford station would at last give meaning to its ‘International’ title. But it would need border control points which, despite the original plan to run Eurostar services from there during the Olympics, is why it never happened I believe.

  • Dan says:

    14 Nov14 November 08:06

    You can’t reverse trains at Statford Int is a bigger problem (would have to drop passengers) go into St P and back, probably with 2 drivers) also it’s not designed as a terminus so you don’t have a large waiting area to store passengers post passports (neither do any of the other former stations, they where designed to be stops with a few passengers each train).

    • LittleNick says:

      14 Nov14 November 10:03

      Why can’t trains be reversed at Stratford?

      • Danny says:

        14 Nov14 November 10:43

        Wouldn’t the driver just change from being at one end of the train to the other or is it more complex?

    • BA Flyer IHG Stayer says:

      14 Nov14 November 11:05

      There are 4 platforms of which only 2 are in use. Perfectly possible to adjust the signals and tracks to permit reversing of trains.

      • Dan says:

        14 Nov14 November 20:32

        Because of the platform and track layout, if you reversed them they would cross the running track (where the trains to St Pancras run), and whilst that is happening it would block the line which would mean less capacity for St Pancras. Bound trains.

  • BA Flyer IHG Stayer says:

    14 Nov14 November 08:10

    It would also need security and other staff.

    Border control is probably the biggest issue with both UK and French Governments needing to be willing and able to staff border points – and we know the difficulties they both have at the moment. And it will be even harder if these are just required for a couple of hours a day.

  • Londonsteve says:

    14 Nov14 November 13:14

    Stratford is a red herring in this context. It wasn’t designed as a terminus, rather as a pick-up and drop-off point in the way it’s used today by Southeastern High Speed. The unused Eurostar platforms in theory could be used, but the track is required by Eurostar through trains departing from St. Pancras and cannot also be occupied with Virgin services using those platforms as a terminus.

    The only realistic alternative to St. Pancras that I see is Ebbsfleet International which has plentiful capacity in every sense. Passengers for international services (who aren’t local to Ebbsfleet; those who are would be overjoyed to have direct services departing from their local station) would need to take Southeastern High Speed to Ebbsfleet to connect with the international service. Perhaps the competitor route could also call at Ashford International, pitching it as a Kent-focused option for cross channel rail services, leaving St. Pancras to Eurostar and ensuring the two parallel routes don’t tread (too much) on one another’s toes.

    The natural option would be to have competing services running in and out of St. Pancras but due to the infernal and now outdated Le Touquet agreement between the UK and France, it bilaterally compels both countries to conduct all immigration checks at the point of embarkation, necessitating complex (and de facto double size) border infrastructure at any stations from where international trains depart. But for the Le Touquet agreement, we could have immigration checks being conducted on the move on passenger services, allowing trains to call at a variety of stations where the only check for international passengers to pass through would be airport style security.

    • Dan says:

      14 Nov14 November 20:33

      You’d need to expand the passenger facilities to process say a 12 car train. That’s 500 people.

• Steve says:

  14 Nov14 November 06:23

  London City Airport CEO resigns; did I miss this being covered? Seems reasonably big news in the scheme of things.

  • Rob says:

    14 Nov14 November 07:42

    Was in the HfP trade newsletter yesterday. It was marginal for our readership I thought.

  • Richie says:

    14 Nov14 November 11:02

    Is that possibly related to the planning permission situation?

    • Rob says:

      14 Nov14 November 11:09

      London City passenger numbers will be 40% (not a typo) down on 2019 this year. September 2023 was 5% down on September 2022 as the Elizabeth Line effect kicks in. The level of debt that it is carrying is stupendous (it was bought for £2.3bn pre-covid, do your own maths based on 3m passengers this year and whatever you think it makes per passenger). There’s not a lot to look foward to as the boss.

      The problem with running HS1 is that it’s probably the most tedious job in the world. It was 2 customers (Eurostar and National Rail) on long term contracts. What the heck do you do all day as CEO?

• Susan says:

  14 Nov14 November 06:44

  Per TFL Stratford Intl is the same time from the City or Canary Wharf as St Pancras so why would this need to be low-cost? More critical maybe the ability to get through, protected tickets to places beyond the direct terminals of Paris, Amsterdam etc. As a regular Eurostar user from South West France I avoid a cheaper Ouigo connection as it’s not covered by the €*/SNCF arrangement.

  • MPC says:

    14 Nov14 November 07:18

    Agree, with the Elizabeth line now running so many services, I think Stratford becomes a viable option for those coming west of London. Works perfect for me I’m on the Liverpool St to Norwich mainline. It would be great if this happens! (Seems unlikely)

  • polly says:

    14 Nov14 November 07:30

    Susan, agree with the connection bit. I got caught out by a missed connection from Bordeaux St Jean to Agen. Ticket not accepted by SNCF. Know next time. Didn’t realise they’re not interchangeable. Fine is 50E on board.

    • Lady London says:

      14 Nov14 November 22:19

      Ouigo is cheap but basically throwaway tickets due to very poor to non existent refund /change conditions. Even if it’s the train network’s fault you are rekatively unprotected. Plus some trains and carriages are close to clapped out even by British train standards.

      Watch out for any train labelled as TER too as in some areas the TER trains are very poor, also with very poor conditions.

  • tony says:

    14 Nov14 November 08:36

    Just for clarity, it’s worth making people aware that getting from Stratford International to the Lizzie Line is far from seamless as it involves a walk of approx 400m through the living hell that is Westfield (imagine Luton departures on a peak holiday weekend then add in a scattering of masked youths riding around on BMXs for extra excitement) then into the abomination that is Stratford underground station, which is seemingly designed to kettle passengers into narrow corridors at every opportunity and the Lizzie line platforms are then some way over.

    • Doctorbee says:

      14 Nov14 November 09:07

      Or DLR one stop for a seamless change to the Elizabeth line.

    • Michael says:

      14 Nov14 November 09:09

      Or 1 stop on the DLR

    • ADS says:

      14 Nov14 November 13:21

      at least Westfield Stratford has both a Waitrose and an M&S … and you can take in a movie at the Vue cinema if you have enough time!

      • Danny says:

        14 Nov14 November 17:00

        Stratford Westfield is a dump compared to the Shepherd’s Bush one. Cramped and overcrowded

• Matt says:

  14 Nov14 November 06:53

  NB. £85 to West London is ‘only’ for the standard E class. The S class and service specified is £125.

  • Andrew says:

    14 Nov14 November 10:56

    Naughty – I read “The cost would have been £86 to West London if we’d paid for it.” to mean exactly that.

    • Rob says:

      14 Nov14 November 11:00

      The ride was charged at £86, because I was given a lump of cash credit to spend – indeed, I still have £14 of change sitting there. If the S-class was an upgrade then I wasn’t aware of that.

• Paul says:

  14 Nov14 November 07:44

  Just who hasn’t announced its intention to run services? DB and Thalys to my knowledge, both of who I’d want to run trains long before I’d want Virgin near it

  • BA Flyer IHG Stayer says:

    14 Nov14 November 08:07

    Thalys is now part of Eurostar.

    DB need to sort out their domestic services first. Germans are not happy with DBs reliability issues and haven’t been so for quite some time.

    • Rebecca says:

      14 Nov14 November 08:39

      However, it might mean they invest in more rolling stock that can cross the BE-DE border, the lack of which apparently causes lots of the issues on the DB ICE connection from Brussels to Frankfurt!

      • Kraut says:

        14 Nov14 November 09:34

        That rolling stock is coming online now with the new 408 ICEs, so in the next 12-18 months the constant cancellations on Bruseels/Amsterdam services should hugely reduce

  • Martin says:

    16 Nov16 November 06:53

    DB did a long time in the past – I’ve got a photo somewhere of an ICE in St Pancras on a test run.

• PeteM says:

  14 Nov14 November 07:48

  Capacity at Gare du Nord / Paris is as much, if not more, of an issue than at St Pancras / London. And SNCF’s ability to make things difficult in France in terms of access to paths and station space very significant. Sadly I cannot see either of these services starting. If DB couldn’t make it work before Brexit, the chances of these guys now are even more limited, despite the increased demand.

• Paul says:

  14 Nov14 November 07:52

  I have had the Wheely app on my phone for years. Just checked cost from my home to Heathrow which is 21 miles. Business class is £120 and that S Class is £315. A taxi would be £55
  I’ll pass

  • Neil says:

    14 Nov14 November 08:56

    A Black cab is cheaper than the Uber quoted price. And you get a professional driver as well!

    • Kraut says:

      14 Nov14 November 09:36

      “Professional” lol

    • Thywillbedone says:

      14 Nov14 November 10:25

      Except that being in a Black Cab feels a lot like being in a Ford Transit …it’s a van pretending to be a car. Very uncomfortable except over short distances.

      • Londonsteve says:

        14 Nov14 November 13:21

        Not anymore. There’s not many of the TX4s in service any longer, most were taken off the road during Covid and scrapped with a generous bribe paid by TFL for doing so. Most black cabs these days are the Geely-owned LEVC petrol-electric hybrids that are stuffed full of Volvo bits. They not only ride like an executive car, they’re apparently also quite nice to drive. Overall, those new black cabs are much nicer than any Uber X, unless you happen to get vehicle that’s ordinarily on the Exec platform and even then, you won’t have the practical interior and sense of space you get from the black cab.

    • Londonsteve says:

      14 Nov14 November 13:17

      I’ve never seen Uber quote a price higher than what a black cab would cost, except during surge pricing. But by definition they’re employing surge pricing to meet a spike in demand, so the chances of finding a black cab in those circumstances is nigh on nil. I suspect Uber never adopts surge pricing FROM Heathrow as there’s always a plentiful supply of black cabs on the rank but perhaps other people have different experiences?

  • Novelty-Socks says:

    14 Nov14 November 09:15

    £165 for an S-Class from here (N6). Unless it has some magical ability to avoid the traffic, that’s nowhere near worth the money for me.

    Appreciate this is London of course, so someone will find value at that price. I feel I’ve seen more Wheely drivers at arrivals lately, although they’ve been around at least five years. Are they expanding? Has someone invested in them!

    • Charles says:

      14 Nov14 November 10:54

      They used to be decent value (cheaper than a black cab), with good drivers and cars. Home to SW1 was £50 before the pandemic. For me it is now £90 + parking + a congestion charge (for the basic E class). Because they arrive so early to wait for you the parking charge can be £16 (the charge for over an hour at LHR), as it was for me the last time I used them. Just too expensive now.

      • Londonsteve says:

        14 Nov14 November 13:23

        Isn’t the parking charge rolled into the price you’re quoted? If they offer up to an hour of waiting time after landing, I’d expect the parking to be covered by them rather than being added to my bill. Was that not your experience?

        • meta says:

          14 Nov14 November 15:04

          My local cab company offers all of the same services as Rob mentions Wheely does. Great app, meet at the arrivals for no extra cost. Cost: £70 to North London. Car are not Mercedes, but if I want one I can pay £20 extra.

          I tried Wheely twice and their drivers were late both times. The second time, they charged me extra £50 post-ride because they said my address is outside M25 (not true). I had to do a dispute with Amex which was upheld. Never again despite Amex offers and all the marketing.

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