Virgin Group to run trains through the Channel Tunnel?

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• Tankmc says:

  14 Nov14 November 08:06

  I will believe it when I see it. Virgin announced channel tunnel trains when it first opened going to the regions. That never happened.

  The problem with cross border trains is the huge amount of red tape.

  On top of that you have the capacity issue at ST Pancras.

  Running into Stratford is an option but then you cut off connections with trains coming into Kings Cross, St Pancras and to some extent Euston. Is there enough demand for just London bound traffic using Stratford?

  • ChrisBCN says:

    14 Nov14 November 08:54

    Don’t forget that Stratford is now the 3rd or 4th busiest train station in the UK (was 5th, pre full Elizabeth).

    So there are certainly enough people around… How many want to go under the channel is another question – but when you think the catchment area (with a direct train) is from Reading in the west, out to Southend and Colchester, plus two tube lines, DLR, and overground for the Londoners…

  • Chris W says:

    14 Nov14 November 09:10

    If Greater London can support 5 international airports, then, yes I would think it could support 2 international train stations.
    I would absolutely use Stratford for the right price – the fact that it has the Elizabeth Line is a huge drawcard for both locals and tourists.
    Maybe St P can be the station for those travelling beyond London, while Stratford is for those staying in the city?

    • BA Flyer IHG Stayer says:

      14 Nov14 November 19:31

      But Greater London dosen’t suport that many airports.

      They are supported by conencting passengers and passengers who travel from outside of Greater London to use them (because they are effectivly forced to do that)

  • Kraut says:

    14 Nov14 November 09:32

    Stratford is on the Elizabeth Line so isn’t really any further to travel for most of London, especially if it’s cheaper

  • Blair Waldorf Salad says:

    14 Nov14 November 09:37

    St Pancras is 7 mins away from Stratford International on the ex-Javelin trains. That’s trivial for Greater London commuters used to connecting daily anyway.

• NC says:

  14 Nov14 November 08:54

  Low cost services from Ashford or Ebbsfleet would be good for many.

  • BA Flyer IHG Stayer says:

    14 Nov14 November 09:03

    Suffers the same issues as Stratford – need for Border Force staff.

    • Joe says:

      14 Nov14 November 09:36

      Ashford might be a better option from that perspective – with both the UK & France having border staff at Folkestone only 12 miles away. Especially if they were only needed for a few hours a day it could be possible to shift them between the two.

      • Londonsteve says:

        14 Nov14 November 13:28

        That’s a good point. If nothing else works, that should fly and it allows border staff to be more effectively deployed depending on demand, i.e. they don’t just sit around during times of slack demand in Folkestone. I’d be happy to travel to Ashford to get a good value international train to Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam and beyond, mainly because the alternative is either to fly or to pay a fortune to Eurostar. From London it also doesn’t really involve any extra time as you’re closer to your destination (having arrived on a very fast train from London) and transiting through the small terminal at Ashford should be even quicker than doing so at St. Pancras.

        • Joe says:

          15 Nov15 November 10:32

          Yes exactly – the time it takes to get from St Pancras to Ashford on a domestic train is very similar to the time you can take off the Eurostar journey to Paris/Brussels etc (from St Pancras).

• Tiger of ham says:

  14 Nov14 November 09:44

  All the space for international arrivals /border force is currently office space for network rail

• Dan says:

  14 Nov14 November 10:41

  It’s not only St Pancreas that is having capacity issues. Paris also has very little capacity – and the international departures lounge is cramped as it is!

  If Channel Tunnel and HS1 are keen on getting more operators on the lines they will need to cough up the money to expand border controls at both ends of the line.

  Then there is SNCF who own Eurostar. Are they REALLY going to make it easy for any rival operator to draw revenue from them? I doubt it!

  • James says:

    14 Nov14 November 17:14

    Wonder if they would go for the holiday market and avoid Paris, go to Nice, Disneyland or Ski resorts. Sell them via Virgin Holidays as an eco holiday package.

• Alex G says:

  14 Nov14 November 11:36

  So having lost their franchises on the East and West Coast Mainlines, Virgin think they are qualified to run International Services?

  England to Scotland was beyond their abilities. What a joke.

  • Thegasman says:

    14 Nov14 November 12:04

    WCML was pretty good in Virgin days, it’s now borderline useless with Avanti.

    • Susan Smith says:

      14 Nov14 November 12:24

      +1

    • Greenpen says:

      14 Nov14 November 19:52

      I remember Virgin Cross Country whose only use was to pay out to their passengers for late or non-existent services. People used to say how could you run such a wonderful airline* but such a rotten railway?

      Some may differ from this accolade.

    • Matarredonda says:

      14 Nov14 November 21:54

      Agree. Worse mistake ever.

    • AL says:

      14 Nov14 November 23:19

      +1. The WCML under Virgin worked. Three trains an hour in each direction on the London Manchester line, and you got onboard service.

      Avanti is abysmal.

  • Peter K says:

    14 Nov14 November 12:25

    The West Coast line was generally considered a big success. They lost the contract based on pension terms, not their running of the franchise.

    • Rob says:

      14 Nov14 November 13:04

      Indeed. The Government said that bidders for the new franchise had to accept liability for any unexpected pension costs which cropped up dating back to the 1960s IIRC. This is totally normal if you buy a trading business, of course, but not a fixed term franchise.

      • ADS says:

        14 Nov14 November 13:14

        I thought the unlimited pension liability clause was particularly harsh – and Virgin Trains were the only ones who actually understood how it could bankrupt their company.

      • Lady London says:

        14 Nov14 November 22:08

        totally true… unleds you’re Tata buying such as British Steel

        Isn’t Eurostar enough of a financial basket case already? How is introducing more competition going to help? I don’t know much about this, but this looks odd from the outside

• Rich says:

  14 Nov14 November 13:34

  There’s 4 platforms at Stratford, but 6 tracks (2 non-stop tracks). So 2 platforms for Southeastern, 2 non-stop tracks for Eurostar, and 2 platforms available for a new operator’s terminating trains. You’d need to swap Southeastern to the unused platforms to allow Newco to use the crossover.

  Obviously construction work would be needed to enlarge and fit out the terminal and they’d need to staff it. Maybe a job for HS1 and Getlink – they’d benefit from the income from a new operator.

  • Dan says:

    15 Nov15 November 08:37

    That spare platforms (4,1) are on the outside, so no way to go from down line to up line without blocking the operating railway which would impact existing services. Rail ops is not that simple.

• Derek says:

  14 Nov14 November 13:53

  So, Virgin Trains failed under Whittingham; Avanti West Coast was the UK’s worst-performing rail line under Whittingham; and… they’re prepared to let him run an international service?

  • Rich says:

    14 Nov14 November 14:05

    A new operator on new infrastructure is different from being a franchise operator on Victorian infrastructure with 50 year old pension liabilities and poor industrial relations.

• Guy Incognito says:

  14 Nov14 November 15:18

  Wheely have been doing this for at least a couple of years so it seems a bit bizarre they are claiming it is new?!

  Wheely is great though.

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