BIG NEWS: BA moves to revenue-based tier status for Bronze, Silver, Gold and Gold Guest List

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• Clive says:

  8 Jan8 January 16:50

  My thinking on status match is based on the fact that I am Gold until Mar 26, with not a hope in hell of retaining Gold after that. If soft landings are retained – and an illustration of how badly BA is behaving is that we still don’t have a definitive answer on that – then I shall drop to Silver on 01 Apr 27. Therefore there is no point in my acquiring any Tier Points in 26-27. A status match will usually last only for a year, but an early match would let me see whether I could build up enough in the new alliance to retain that status after 01 Apr 27, or whether I shall have to content myself with Silver and start earning points again on BA. Who knows, they might have undone some of the damage by then.

  • Stuart says:

    8 Jan8 January 18:24

    Pretty much my exact situation and thoughts.

  • RC says:

    8 Jan8 January 18:33

    On past form, BA will be onto new damage by then. The (seemingly ineffective and elusive) ‘customer experience manager’ (who is rumoured to avoid customers and also rumoured to have anger management challenges) will hopefully have been made to walk the plank by then. (The experience is poor and it seems BA don’t want customers).
    But by then we’ll have brunch round 2, cuts to club Europe (based on customer feedback- from McKinsey or some other drone), and Avios redemption will go revenue based (‘dynamic’ ). No doubt more spin that customers wanted their Avios further devalued.
    Meanwhile, best forget status.
    Buy on price/quality/schedule. And I can assure you that will rarely churn out BA as best option. In main cabin, if a lounge matters, either spend £30-40 in a restaurant, or pre book paid lounge access. Even for US routes like Nashville or Cincinnati there are fare better options on other carriers like Delta, air Canada , United, even JetBlue (who are getting big seats upfront on domestics) if you’re prepared to connect.

• Lenhunt56 says:

  8 Jan8 January 17:18

  All of my BA journeys start and end at the truly awful T3 Manchester. Bad enough that you have to suffer the ‘Escape’ lounge outbound and one of the dingiest luggage carousels on the planet inbound but check-in time has now been reduced to 2 hours before the flight. When you live over an hour away from the airport timing your arrival to within two hours is inviting problems. The ONLY reason I tolerated that and T3 was BAEC and Gold status.
  I will now be migrating my business and Avios to Qatar T2 and the 1903 Lounge followed by Doha rather than LHR.
  It is quite liberating, almost at the level of when I cancelled my TV licence.

  • BA Flyer IHG Stayer says:

    8 Jan8 January 20:50

    BA will be moving to T2 sometime this year.

• Throwawayname says:

  8 Jan8 January 21:12

  I can just about understand those who drive from the Midlands to fly from LHR, but flying BA from MAN must mean that, in addition to having to connect at LHR, premium cabin travel is more expensive than the competition- unless I’m hugely mistaken, all their UK market fares are the same as the ex-LON ones so you end up paying a nonstop premium. (Example: random March dates to MEX, BA business is £3700 rtn from either LON or MAN, which is a good grand more than the cheapest MAN alternative).

  • Throwawayname says:

    8 Jan8 January 21:14

    This was obviously meant as a reply to @Lenhunt56

  • Wee paul says:

    8 Jan8 January 21:25

    It’s worse than that…. Flying via LHR from say BHD or GLA, the connecting flight often costs 200-300 more than the price of separate tickets.

    • Throwawayname says:

      8 Jan8 January 21:36

      Why on earth would anyone put up with that instead of flying AFKL/LH/TK or basically anyone else?

      • numpty says:

        8 Jan8 January 22:26

        Exactly, for cash fares, there can be some good deals with KLM and LH via their hubs, just the same as what BA offers for ex EU via LHR.

• Rob says:

  8 Jan8 January 22:03

  I’ve just started booking holidays for later this year and next. In the past the tier points gave me a reason to use BAH. But seeing as the tier point thresholds are so ludicrous and the points are split between the family, I’d never hit silver from my holiday bookings, so I literally can’t see any reason why I’d book via BAH and limit myself to one airline, rather than use an online travel agent/website. For me at least, they’ve removed the one and only reason I used to consider using BAH in a market that’s otherwise awash with cheaper alternatives.

• Kyle says:

  9 Jan9 January 04:01

  I posted a few comments previously and there isn’t much more to add after over 3k comments. But it strikes me how much of a sense of entitlement some people had. BA have changed the rules. I don’t like the change. It seems a lot of people don’t, but some people do. There is even a god damn petition. Whatever category of leisure traveller you’re in you just have to accept the new rules. If that means you’re going to take your business elsewhere then do it. BA will have factored that in to their metrics and calculations. I personally don’t believe BA will lose a lot here. Most of you will probably still spend some money on BA, even if not the amount you used to. For those chasing status on the cheap the message is very clear. No more cheap tier point runs to Sofia, no more holidays to the middle east on connecting carriers to rack up the points on the cheap. No more long five day weekends away in a cheap Club Europe fare to score 320TPs. If you want status, you MUST be willing to spend. Otherwise you have two choices. Settle for lower/no status or take your money elsewhere. Just stop being angry about this and make peace with yourself. Silver or gold status doesn’t really mean much these days anyway. If you really want your lounges most airports have a pay to use lounge. Or look at lounge key or similar programmes. All the other benefits (seat selection, extra baggage etc) can be done without or bought per flight. I’d be willing to bet that those who chase status probably spend more doing that than if they just paid for these extras when they want them. The handful that can’t be bought on BA (early boarding group for example) don’t really mean that much anyway. You’ve called it a mistake. You’ve had your say. Stop whining and moaning and get on with your lives. The company belongs to IAG now and they’ve set their rules. If you don’t like I don’t think they really care. For context, I’ve got a gold card guaranteed until 2027. I do spend enough each year as a leisure traveller under the new rules to reach silver and probably gold occasionally. Will I? Not sure. But its my money and I’ll spend it how I want to. Am I upset by the changes? Yes I am. Will I fly BA less? Who knows without a crystal ball – certainly not until May27 at least. Maybe longer if they soft land me to silver. If they change the rules again in that time I’ll re-assess what it means to me and if needed take my cash elsewhere with dignity. Not in the child like tantrum some of you are having.

  • RC says:

    9 Jan9 January 08:40

    Some valid points, but phrases like ‘stop whining’, and ‘tantrums’. in themselves are just that!

    • Scott says:

      9 Jan9 January 08:55

      At the end of the day, if i paid £1500 for some ex-EU trip to say HNL in CE and CW, and you paid £10k for your last minute fully flex CW ticket on one of my segments, you’re still going to be treated exactly the same on the ground and on board.
      Sure you’re spending far more, but there is zero to differentiate between us.

      • shd says:

        9 Jan9 January 10:36

        This has become even more true with modern business class seats and cabin layouts.

        In the old (yin-yang) BA CW – particularly on 747 with the upper deck – there was a big difference between a really good CW seat and a bad CW seat. Status customers were able to look forward to getting their pick of the seats.

        If you know there are no genuinely bad business class seats on an aircraft then not being able to reserve a specific one becomes much less important.

  • JDB says:

    9 Jan9 January 08:50

    Good points and refreshing to see some calmer thoughts. I think people also forget just how much more difficult Gold used to be to earn so much of this is just restoring things to where they were and looking after the genuine valuable passenger rather than gamers.

    • Alison says:

      9 Jan9 January 15:01

      But this is all BA’s own fault for encouraging ‘gaming’ through silly double TP BAH offers. All customers are genuine and valuable. If the seller ie BA has offered a promotion that is unviable to its business, then that’s BA’s fault not the customer’s. Remember the infamous Hoover promotion?

    • Ziggy says:

      9 Jan9 January 16:29

      Newsflash: Someone who would have flown with BA regardless of status/Avios benefits because their company has a deal with BA (i.e. a pax who brings no added profit to the airline) isn’t a “genuine valuable passenger”, and yet a significant proportion of those who will benefit from these changes fall squarely into this category of flyer.

      As for “gamers” …

      When people who read FT/HfP and take trips that minimise airfare spending without sacrificing too much comfort, complain about an airline, they’re routinely told that they are but a tiny subset of the flying population and should pipe down because they are insignificant to the airline.

      Amusingly, however, when an airline devalues its FFP, the same people are told that they’re to blame because they were “gaming the system” (which is utter nonsense btw) and hurting the airline. Now, they’re suddenly very significant.

      Which is it? Is this group insignificant or significant? I’d genuinely love to know.

      • LittleNick says:

        9 Jan9 January 22:06

        Very good point

      • GUWonder says:

        10 Jan10 January 00:40

        If the cost of airfare on a BA or Oneworld alliance airline flight is low, it’s because that is the market-clearing price that the airline wants in order to maximize the airline’s revenue and profits. Blaming customers for buying the product/service at the prices set by the airline? That’s pretty ridiculous.

    • Garethgerry says:

      9 Jan9 January 17:55

      Here here

  • Throwawayname says:

    9 Jan9 January 09:06

    @Kyle , you’re right that people shouldn’t be angry about it all, but clearly they have the choice of continuing on a more or less business-as-usual basis by simply switching FFPs. What’s really interesting is that the fact that they can carry on with BAU is another reason for them NOT to be angry- as they aren’t even going to lose out on any benefits.

    The explanation for that behaviour is likely that lots of BAEC members got seriously emotionally attached to the programme and their sense of loss is less about the actual benefits of the status and more about the realisation that they’d made a poor choice.

    • Phil says:

      9 Jan9 January 11:03

      Its also so self-inflicted a wound by BA.
      People don’t need to say they will never fly BA again there is already a black mark, conscious or unconscious in their mind.

      If that affects an evaluation of two competing offerings then by definition that hits BA in the bookings

      • Rich says:

        9 Jan9 January 12:28

        Time is a great healer though – views formed in the heat of the moment soon soften.

        • Rob says:

          9 Jan9 January 12:36

          People WILL clearly keep using BA, but each booking will now be based on a sensible comparison of price / schedule / service rather than factoring in the need to earn some TP to retain status, or the added status benefits that taking the trip on BA would bring.

          It is 100% certain that this will lead to reduced travel. If you’re off to Frankfurt, why would you just book BA now by default if Lufthansa was cheaper / more convenient? Terminal 2 is very pleasant and the new No1 Lounge quiet (for now).

        • BA Flyer IHG Stayer says:

          9 Jan9 January 14:54

          I’ve been looking for Berlin in September. Willing to give LH a try

          In business BA is £ 259. LH is £ 515 via FRA. So I won’t be switching,

          Whereas LHR – FRA LH is cheaper than BA so more likely to switch. But I don’t want to go to Frankfurt!

        • Phil says:

          9 Jan9 January 15:38

          People have long memories.
          They don’t cut nose off to spite face but they do remember.

          That is now BA’s issue

        • Td8 says:

          10 Jan10 January 08:30

          @ Rob, reduced travel at much higher margins, so a clear win for BA

  • David says:

    9 Jan9 January 11:21

    Agree but disagree in that this will not affect BA financially. I reckon so much so that we will see a huge Avios devaluation to offset.

  • Mike says:

    9 Jan9 January 11:44

    I agree with some of this – the cheap tier point Runs to Sofia and Abu Dhabi-Jakarta have been abused, not by me I might add!

    I have been a business and leisure traveller for 15 years. Mostly shorthaul, but with some long haul. I have chosen BA over other airlines because I believe that loyalty paid…I typically fly club to/from Dublin every other week and the occasional holiday to the states or Asia. I don’t think double tier point on 14 night fly drive is abusing the double tier points on holidays. I comfortably achieve Gold without having to resort to abuse of the system.

    However, under the new rules, for the same amount of travel I will struggle to achieve silver. How does that recognise my loyalty for the last 15 years.

    Yes, they have changed the rules of the club, but they have done to solve a problem (overcrowding of lounges and increase in Gold Tier members) which was the result of their own decisions. I very much doubt that BA will have factored in the emotional damage that this will have done to a loyal following.

    I will have to spend 3 times as much as I do today to achieve the same status, its not worth that much to me, with a priority pass for lounge access and priority security payable in many airports, I’ll just adjust how I travel

    • Rob says:

      9 Jan9 January 11:56

      Not sure how many people you think moved to Jakarta for a few weeks in order to do daily return flights to Jakarta and back on SriLankan – especially as a large percentage of flights got cancelled looking at reports – but I’m guessing it wasn’t many ….

      • Mike says:

        9 Jan9 January 15:44

        Hi Rob – I wasn’t suggesting daily return flights! But I have seen posts of people doing one or two back to back just to get the TPs.

        As someone else has pointed out, there’s no law against this but quite frankly I have better things to do with my time and money than book flights to the other side of the World for no other reason than to get cheap tier points.

    • BA Flyer IHG Stayer says:

      9 Jan9 January 15:13

      Who are these “abusers”?

      People have taken up a range of BA offers to their benefit as well as to BAs.

      There are people who have changed a 4 night to a 5 night holiday because of BAs offer. BA has gained from extra income from that.

      There are people who have done a couple of extra flights just to top up their status but BA has happily gained by that extra spend and congratulated itself for increasing passenger numbers and income,

      That’s not abuse.

      Neither is starting a trip in ARN or DUB or AMS because BA has priced them that way. Even if you do still end up flying on the same LHR-XXX flight BA want double for.

      You are correct when you say it was BA that created e.g. the double TP offer but it was also their decision to extend it several times. It’s a bit rich for them to start carping about busy lounges now.

      • Gerry says:

        9 Jan9 January 15:21

        +1

        I think some commenters use the word “abuse” here too liberally.

        In the same vein, you one can argue that buying POUG/AUP upgrades is equivalent to abusing the system because you should’ve bought a business class ticket in the first place 🙂.

      • Mike says:

        9 Jan9 January 15:47

        I agree, abuse is probably the wrong word. People have indeed played the game to their advantage and the consequence is a devaluing of gold status due it becoming too easy to get.

        BA didn’t have to go to the lengths that they have to solve the problem and I think that there will be a lot of customers who used to legitimately gain gold from loyal, regular travel that under the new rules won’t even get to silver.

      • ken says:

        9 Jan9 January 15:48

        And by the same token, people are not “loyal”.

        They are choosing BA simply because of the whole package.

        A humdrum service hard & soft product but very easy status plus points that are easily used.

        Equally, people have kvetched about the state and occupancy of the lounges for several years alongside boasting about how cheap & easy it is to get Gold.

        It’s a bit rich for them to start carping about BA making status more difficult to obtain now – albeit my personal view is the spend levels are set too high.

    • JDB says:

      9 Jan9 January 22:31

      @Mike – most organisations aren’t doing much to reward your ‘loyalty’ for the previous 15 years (that was just a series of commercial transactions), but only recognising what you are worth to them today. If you have been a member of a golf club for 15 years, what do you expect them to do for you in year 16 if you don’t pay your annual subscription?

      • Rob says:

        9 Jan9 January 23:10

        Although the London (members) club model is that your membership fee is frozen based on the year you joined to reward your loyalty and you would usually get a hearing in tough times …..

        My Arts Club membership fee is only 40% of what a new member pays.

  • Track says:

    9 Jan9 January 16:09

    — If you want status, you MUST be willing to spend.

    Very good, spend 1/3 of the amount with another airline!

    Or if you based in the US, pick up American Airlines card and do some extra spending.

  • Gold4Life says:

    9 Jan9 January 18:09

    I feel quite embarrassed about bringing this to my MP. A letter and a phone call to their staff. Especially as my MP is Sir Keir.

• yonasl says:

  9 Jan9 January 04:38

  In LGW for a 6:25am flight to GVA. Booked with BA because I have status so lounge and emergency exit make it a nice option for such a badly timed flight (where EasyJet would have been cheaper).

  Just got a message at 4:25am. Sorry your flight is delayed … really? From sitting on the tarmac all night?

  Checking on FlightRadar. All Wizz and EasyJet flights on time. BA all delayed by 1hr or more.

  And they expect me to spend £7,500 on this?

  • TomB says:

    9 Jan9 January 05:13

    I hear you, I was just playing around with dummy bookings on EasyJet and think I’m going to move my work flights to them when my BA status expires. Paying all the extras to get the equivalent benefits of status (except lounge access) works out at comparable cost, employer would cover the Plus membership too. Happy to enjoy the BA status benefits on J/F bookings whether cash or Avios, where status is completely irrelevant anyway.

• Andrew says:

  9 Jan9 January 08:33

  Given that the new BA website beta (‘NX’) has done a rebrand (and little more) to the whole website EXCEPT for reward redemptions, I would be VERY worried some substantial changes are coming quite soon in that space…

  The ‘5,000 TP’ reward rumoured, quiet before the storm for 9 months and… BACwards is announced.

  First ‘reward flight saver’ or alignment with Y/W/J rumoured, quiet for a long spell and… ?

  Revenue based Avios spend would be the death knell for BA and the Avios programme, that’s for sure.

  • RC says:

    9 Jan9 January 08:45

    Complete the following :
    Avios earned: revenue based
    Tier points: revenue based
    Avios earned: ?????

    BA/IAGL semi determined to gut the scheme. More interested in card spend and wine than flying. Such is the ‘genius’ of Adam Daniels.

    • Rob says:

      9 Jan9 January 10:06

      That’s not the case. IAGL is pushing back hard on BA’s more aggressive demands to devalue redemptions. At present IAGL is winning because, frankly, it has more power inside IAG.

      Investors value IAGL profits at a huge multiple of earnings because it is seen as tech / fintech / super-stable whilst the airline units are valued at a pittance so (group wise) it makes sense to agree policies that boost IAGL profits at the expense of BA etc.

      This is the same logic we use when saying that HfP is a financial services company (so worth 15x profits) and not a media company (so worth 5x profits).

      • RC says:

        9 Jan9 January 10:54

        The point on the IAGL multiple is not correct.
        IAGL would like you to think that, as would IAG’s corporate brokers at GS and MS. The reality is rather different.
        Real investors don’t value IAG on a sum of parts as there’s no intention to split up IAG or IAGL (especially after AC showed you don’t want to lose control of a FFP). If IAGL was independent it would be having to pay Iberia and BA far more for peak season redemptions, so it’s not a surprise IAGL doesn’t want dynamic pricing. The IAGL margin would be much lower with it .
        However with no split up or sell off likely iAG is valued as a whole.
        Now, I’m sure Adam Daniels will claim he’s superman on a high multiple, but the reality is more sober.

        • Rob says:

          9 Jan9 January 11:08

          Obviously correct (and I’ve made a similar argument myself when people claim that the US frequent flyer schemes are ‘worth more’ than their parents) but its not clear the market understands it.

          As you say, Aeroplan showed the restrictions of separating the two fully.

        • Track says:

          9 Jan9 January 16:21

          Demerger probability, or even divisibility of company, not a requirement to apply the sum of parts.

      • Fred Hopkins says:

        9 Jan9 January 13:38

        Sorry Rob but that’s just not so. The IAGL leadership team are useless – not a brain cell or backbone between them. Luckily they have some very talented people working for them in their pricing team but those people are badly let down by the proposition and growth teams who are, frankly, clueless.

        • RC says:

          9 Jan9 January 14:15

          Touché.
          Well said as when they’re allowed out, the iAGL leadership spend too much time telling investors they are underpaid. But no one ever bids them out. So if proof was needed they are paid beyond their talent level, that’s it.
          Fortunately, I suspect BA did not design the TP change around their wisdom .

        • Rob says:

          9 Jan9 January 14:27

          The last two IAGL heads left for better paying jobs. Gavin went to Etihad for a tax free bonanza and is now de facto running Qatar Privilege Club, and Drew went to Amex GBT where I suspect he was amply rewarded in options which vested in the float.

      • GUWonder says:

        9 Jan9 January 21:31

        Please don’t sell out to KKR and Warburg Pincus or the like at less than a multiple akin to a financial services companies. Or better yet for me as a user or this site, don’t sell out at all.

  • JDB says:

    9 Jan9 January 08:55

    With the shakeout of faux gold/silver, BA can now offer exclusive (eg F restricted) or priority long haul Avios access to the new gold/silver holders to make it more attractive to reach the new thresholds.

    • Andrew says:

      9 Jan9 January 09:12

      Given the propensity of these high-spenders getting the new status levels to.. err.. spend, surely providing extra redemption availability is the last thing BA would want to do as it would cannibalise revenue and erode any supposed increase in spend?

      That implies anyone at IAG has thought this through, however.

      • JDB says:

        9 Jan9 January 09:35

        Being able to get good redemptions for some premium leisure travel is a huge incentive for the biggest flight spenders. Even magic circle partners do love “free”!

        • Rob says:

          9 Jan9 January 10:03

          As per my FT article last week, the richer you are, the more valuable Avios are to you – because if you’re usually paying cash for business or first class tickets, they are genuinely a cash saving. If you’d never pay cash for a J flight or book a hotel suite then the upgrade is ‘nice to have’ but not saving you anything.

        • babyg_wc says:

          9 Jan9 January 18:13

          the richer you are the more valuable avios are? pretty flawed logic Rob, if your £10k flight is only 1% of your £1,000,000 salary then the avios is worth 1% of you income…… if a £3k flight is 3% of your 100k salary then clearly avios are worth much more to us poor people….

        • Rob says:

          9 Jan9 January 19:18

          Only if you would have spent £3,000.

          You will NEVER meet anyone earning £1m (£500k net) who will turn down a chance to save £10k.

      • GUWonder says:

        9 Jan9 January 21:35

        Every big spender I know with Delta Air Lines hates what Delta has done to the value of spendable SkyMiles. And yet each continues to fly Delta a lot. Part of it is that the other major US airlines pretty much went in the same direction or were seen as heading in the same direction too, and so the spending like a drunken sailor continued and Delta is no worse for it. Unfortunately.

        • Track says:

          10 Jan10 January 08:33

          Delta often prices First class competitively, compared to American and United.

          They want cash, and they are getting it.

    • RC says:

      9 Jan9 January 11:02

      Dynamic redemption pricing does that.
      Many on here in denial as with this change before it was announced but it’s coming.
      Rob disagrees, but BA and Iberia are both thought to be fed up subsidising IAGL profits (ie peak season Avios seats at a capped price when they can be sold for $$$ at higher values.) Otherwise higher airlines profits would mean the airlines deliver higher ROI and can invest more. At a recent IAG event one airline person described IAGL as ‘complimentary when it works but too parasitic’ in its present form.

      • ken says:

        9 Jan9 January 11:37

        These kind of tensions exist in any large multi national – as do bitching about other divisions & cross charges.

        IAGL is profitable and those profits are stable but the idea its “too parasitic” when BA’s profits are 5 times higher last year albeit inherently volatile, seems for the birds.
        Could IAG sell it off ?
        Possible, but it seems to me that its a strategic part of the business and selling it would be a last resort.

        • RC says:

          9 Jan9 January 12:14

          Revenue based TP will clearly test customers true engagement. I suspect BA knows that it’s iBA, not Avios that drives that.
          Clearly in redemption BA can and will dictate terms to IAGL – where the margin is excessively flattered by fixed price Avios redemption levels.

  • sigma421 says:

    9 Jan9 January 09:11

    I’m not sure we should be assuming there is some grand masterplan for all this. The way it’s been rolled out suggests internal chaos and various siloed divisions doing their own thing.

    • GUWonder says:

      9 Jan9 January 21:36

      Exactemente.

• neilK says:

  9 Jan9 January 08:50

  Glad to have given up my gold card and no longer locked in to BA. Now enjoying business class on Star Alliance and SkyTeam airlines as I please. For several years I have felt left out as a leisure traveller, watching BA focus more and more on business travellers. This is nothing new. Trying to cover it up by dropping the ‘Executive’ title fools no one. BA business class lacks the quality and refinement one finds on other European airlines and yet, is consistently more expensive. Whatever ploy BA marketing come up with next, the executive club and Avios won’t make up for that. I advise everyone to go out and try other airlines, free yourselves of the tier points and Avios yoke. You won’t look back…

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