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Hi all,
Wanted some collective wisdom!
Have left Amex UK credit a little late this year. Earlier in the month went to a restaurant in London.
The restaurant was listed on the Platinum website as accepting for the credit. They flat out refused Amex, and stated they had updated Amex on their position multiple times. Spoke to the manager who expressed his frustration that customers like me were still arriving expecting to use their Amex card. I was ‘forced’ to use a non-amex card to pay for the meal.
Contacted Amex, initially concierge who apologised and agreed the restaurant was still listed online.
They filed a complaint, and I’m currently awaiting feedback. I have stressed to them that clearly I would like to know before the 31/12 – because otherwise I would use my credit elsewhere ‘free money’.
Interestingly the restaurant has now been removed from the online guide.
I wondered what people thought the outcome might be / should be?
My view reading the T&Cs is that I did ‘everything I reasonably could’ do utilise the credit – including checking the restaurant was still listed when I arrived. I didn’t, on arrival, ask the restaurant ‘do you still accept Amex’ but think it would be unreasonable to expect that I should do that?Frustrated as they quote 3-5 days is usual, but then up to 15 working days allowed – this would take me up to the 31/12, which is clearly unworkable in terms of using the credit elsewhere if they decline me.
To be honest, I’d have asked if they accept Amex – I did just that when using my overseas dining credit recently and fortunately they said yes.
Shouldn’t have to, but we know the world’s not perfect. So why wouldn’t you?
@oxforddoc – the dining credits programme is largely on a ‘best efforts’ and good faith basis. There are some simple terms and conditions but Amex can’t, and can’t be expected to guarantee that any particular restaurant even takes the card or is still participating. As above, it’s also not wholly one sided; if it was mission critical that you got the credit, a small effort would have told you that the credit was unlikely to be forthcoming. While Amex might offer you something as a gesture of goodwill, there can be no certainty about that or whether they will respond before year end.
Thanks for the thoughts and feedback – it is much appreciated.
I think the challenge of ‘asking them’ is what would you do next?
This was a Saturday evening in central London, it’s unlikely that I’d then find somewhere else of similar quality to go to at the last minute – so I would argue that ‘best efforts’ is booking a restaurant based on the offer availability on the Amex website, and it still being on the Amex site the day I used the offer.
My frustration was compounded when the manager noted he had contacted Amex ‘multiple times’ to ask to be removed – so I would argue that if this is indeed true, then they haven’t completed their side of their ‘best efforts’.
My expectation from the T&Cs is very much that if it was on their list at the time of dining, it should be honoured. These don’t state you have to confirm with the restaurant directly before dining.
Amex Platinum is billed as a ‘premium lifestyle card’ – I’m not sure asking every place you go to use a credit whether they take Amex is really living up to that.
Well, Amex sells the Platinum card as a ‘lifestyle’ product to potential cardholders but more importantly to restaurateurs when so many cardholders are in fact only using it simply as a coupon book and don’t really use it beyond the direct benefits.
You shouldn’t need to, but if it mattered so much you could have checked on booking the restaurant that it was a participating restaurant. Amex restaurants expect you are a high roller who will be regularly dining out in higher end restaurants so this shouldn’t matter.
It’s a core benefit of the card unlike statement offer credits. I disagree regarding the fact that Amex is not responsible to maintain up to date list at all times. You do have to check the list before you enter the restaurant, but other than that there should be no further expectation on the cardholder.
However, most of the restaurants on the list require card for reservation. Did you use Amex for the booking?
If so, I wouldn’t be surprised if the restaurant owner/manager was actually lying. They might have intended to cancel their contract with Amex, but didn’t get round to it. Instead, they are refusing customers to pay with Amex. In fact, I would have said I don’t have any other card with me nor cash/debit card to pay for the meal on the day. I did this multiple times before when places tried to refuse Amex. You’d be surprised how quickly they stopped arguing.
If the restaurant is *listed* on Amex website, take screenshot, and start the official complaint procedure for your reasonable dining expense. (maybe not the taxi ride to the restraurant).
If they advertise it as a benefit for the card and not honour it, they violate their own terms. As simple as that.
And, yes, I’d not expect the restaurants to be very professional and decent either — some may accept amex, and choose to do so for whatever reason. I remember some place use to grab back the POS machine in panic claiming they don’t accept amex. They did. They just didn’t want me to pay with it.
What restaurant was this? I heard Fallow have done this, with my sister caught out and having the exact same problem as described above. Amex agreed to cover the £150 credit though thankfully.
A restaurant suddenly stopping taking Amex is completely foreseeable by Amex. Also, after a few days, completely detectable. The merchant has £ 0 in sales despite being listed as a Platinum Dining Credit establishment. At which point a call to the restaurant by Amex could be triggered, or a safety-first approach and automatically pulling it off the list. Optimistically assuming everything is going to be fine for ever isn’t “best efforts”.
What restaurant was this? I heard Fallow have done this, with my sister caught out and having the exact same problem as described above. Amex agreed to cover the £150 credit though thankfully.
Yup, Fallow.
Yes, my sister launched a complaint with customer services, then it was escalated and later that day received a notification via in app message Amex were going to provide 150 statement credit, so I see no reason to believe they would do anything different for you (i.e. you can probably consider the credit “redeemed”).
Seriously a central London restaurant like Fallow not taking Amex, think they have their priorities backwards.
I’m not going to lie it’s that sort of pettiness that means I end up just going elsewhere
Just out of curiosity I wonder what would have happened if you had no other means of paying ?
Clearly you had a reasonable expectation of Amex being acceptedJust out of curiosity I wonder what would have happened if you had no other means of paying ?
Clearly you had a reasonable expectation of Amex being acceptedExactly the same as at any restaurant where you didn’t have the wherewithal to pay! The Amex offer is not relevant to the question. As for “reasonable expectation” good luck with that one.
@ChaseP @JDB They would have found a way to accept Amex. Been there done that.
So, Amex have this evening responded to my complaint. Essentially, apologies, sorry restaurants might suddenly refuse, no grounds and nothing offered.
I will likely give them a call tomorrow as there are a number of factual errors in their response about what happened, and will then likely move to Financial Ombudsman.
In reality the offer is still available for you to use so what do you think the ombudsman is going to do?
I’d expect the FoS to take a while, charge Amex several hundred £ for the complaint, and order Amex to pay oxforddoc at least £150 (or whatever was spent at the restaurant), assuming a vaguely competent complaint. Core part of the benefits, clearly on Amex’s list of restaurants, wouldn’t have gone but for the list/offer.
@oxforddoc – the dining credits programme is largely on a ‘best efforts’ and good faith basis. There are some simple terms and conditions but Amex can’t, and can’t be expected to guarantee that any particular restaurant even takes the card or is still participating. As above, it’s also not wholly one sided; if it was mission critical that you got the credit, a small effort would have told you that the credit was unlikely to be forthcoming. While Amex might offer you something as a gesture of goodwill, there can be no certainty about that or whether they will respond before year end.
I think Amex can reasonably be expected to ensure the list of restaurants they publish is accurate, and if they fail, can be expected to make good the customer they have let down. They clearly have the data to know which restaurants are taking payments on Amex cards. It’s a significant part of the advertised benefits of the card!
@Matt – please read some FOS cases before opining this sort of nonsense and there are dozens involving Amex offers. It’s really poor advice. When a third party is involved, Amex almost always wins, even when applying fairness principles, not just T&Cs. Please clarify to the OP what you mean by “assuming a vaguely competent complaint” if you are saying it’s so easy.
In 2024, Amex actually no longer knows who does or doesn’t accept Amex cards as the direct relationships they previously had with merchants are now getting rarer.
Anyway, as @TGLoyalty says, why gamble on Amex changing its mind and/or the FOS finding in your favour? If you really can’t use the credit, this is an issue that needs to be resolved with Amex as a matter of goodwill rather than trying to get clever with them and insisting on some sort of non-existent contractual obligation etc.
To be honest, I’d have asked if they accept Amex – I did just that when using my overseas dining credit recently and fortunately they said yes.
Shouldn’t have to, but we know the world’s not perfect. So why wouldn’t you?
Something slightly different happened to me in Germany; I asked if they accepted AMEX. They said yes so we stayed.
The bill came and I took out my phone to pay with Apple Pay and they said they didn’t accept Apple Pay – only payment via the physical card. Fortunately, I had it on me (I never use physical cards in UK) so was able to settle but something to be aware of if you are used to being spoiled with phone payments being accepted everywhere in UK.
@oxforddoc Did you make a formal complaint? If not I would do so at this point. I’d also consider going into a physical Ivy restaurant and buying a gift card so you don’t lose the credit. Whilst they are overpriced and the quality of the food is hit and miss it’s better than nothing.
In relation to the larger issue, there are several points. Firstly, when booking ring the restaurant and ask if they accept Amex and check a few days before that they are still on the list. The shoddy state of the restaurant list is well-documented and those of us who read these forums aren’t surprised when situations like this occur. Secondly, as @JDB states, there is absolutely no point complaining to the FOS as the offer is still present on the account. Finally, don’t wait until close to the deadline to redeem an offer, at least that way there is a chance of a second go. Fundamentally though, Amex has a responsibility to ensure the list is accurate and up to date, it can’t be that difficult to set a database trigger when a merchants Amex usage is zero for a period of time.
@Matt – please read some FOS cases before opining this sort of nonsense and there are dozens involving Amex offers. It’s really poor advice. When a third party is involved, Amex almost always wins, even when applying fairness principles, not just T&Cs. Please clarify to the OP what you mean by “assuming a vaguely competent complaint” if you are saying it’s so easy.
In 2024, Amex actually no longer knows who does or doesn’t accept Amex cards as the direct relationships they previously had with merchants are now getting rarer.
Anyway, as @TGLoyalty says, why gamble on Amex changing its mind and/or the FOS finding in your favour? If you really can’t use the credit, this is an issue that needs to be resolved with Amex as a matter of goodwill rather than trying to get clever with them and insisting on some sort of non-existent contractual obligation etc.
They have the means to detect the payments being made from a retailer otherwise they couldn’t run the scheme. Ego, they can detect when the payments drop to 0. A direct relationship is not required (if it were the case, they couldn’t run the scheme without a direct relationship!).
It is clearly contractual IMHO, although the FOS may be disinterested. IANAL.
Amex have rejected the formal complaint, so FOS is the next step.
@memesweeper – I think you have misunderstood how Amex currently executes its offers. It can only work with merchants with whom it has a direct relationship as it relies on Amex merchant numbers. This is the only way it can determine which locations of a given brand are eligible or not or whether e.g. a prized Ivy gift card was sold online (ineligible) or at an Ivy location (eligible). Visa and MasterCard operate offers on an entirely different fuzzy name matching basis so that you might find a Morrisons supermarket offer is triggered if you visit a bar also called Morrisons.
A merchant with a ‘traditional’ card acquirer agreement will be covered for all cards except Amex who require a separate contract, often pay net, more slowly and issue a separate statement so it’s quite a bore, even if they offer lower fees than any other card.
Now, many small merchants prefer not to have any monthly fee, can get mini terminals free and those enable acceptance of all cards including Amex and it’s only those providers like Sumup or Shopify etc. who have the relationship so although the merchant accepts Amex cards, Amex has no longer has any idea who they are. This aspect, plus the cost and all the mindless complaints killed off Shop Small.
It’s also why so many offers no longer track very well as merchants get extra terminals often with a new provider so they are on a system that Amex doesn’t recognise as being from an eligible merchant.
@memesweeper – I think you have misunderstood how Amex currently executes its offers. It can only work with merchants with whom it has a direct relationship as it relies on Amex merchant numbers. This is the only way it can determine which locations of a given brand are eligible or not or whether e.g. a prized Ivy gift card was sold online (ineligible) or at an Ivy location (eligible).
If they only work with direct relationship merchants that kind of makes sense. I misunderstood your assertion that falling numbers of direct relationships was significant to the running of this scheme. I thought that meant indirect merchants were included in the scheme.
My point on zero sales stands. If a merchant switches away from Amex this is detectable and should be actionable where they are linked to a high-profile high-value spend incentive.
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