AVIOS booking flight cancellation (less than 24 hours notice) and downgrade
Discuss today's stories:
-
We’ve just had our return flight from IAH to LHR cancelled with less than 24 hours notice. To add insult to injury we have been offered alternative flights in economy only which is a downgrade to our original bookings. Flights were booked with AVIOS. I can’t contact the BA Silver line as they are closed until the morning, but have to accept the proposed flight change and downgrade due to work commitments. I assume I will receive my AVIOS back for the cancellation and be able to claim flight delay compensation? Any advice?
You won’t receive all the Avios back as you are taking the flight; albeit in a lower class. You will have to do the leg work yourself to claim the downgrade entitlement and the compensation.
I think it will be cancellation compo that you need to claim, and presumably it will also depend on the reason for the cancellation. Someone posted yesterday that downgrade compo should be a separate claim to avoid confusing BA – you should get something like 75% of what you paid for the seat (whether avios or cash), so check your rights on this and don’t just settle for the difference.
NB – I am assuming this is a BA flight, it might be slightly more complicated if you were travelling on a partner such as AA.
You aren’t obliged to accept that rerouting – call and ask for other options, although it’s best to have checked rerouting flights that you would be happy with that also have business availability and propose those. Easier if it’s BA/AA.
If you do accept the downgrade, it’s 75% downgrade reimbursement x each person you need to ask for, not compensation – v important.
I read it that OP had accepted the re-routing but agree it’s not 100% clear.
Hello!
I’ve kept away from the EC Flight Regs for a bit but the downgrade question is of interest because passengers often feel forced to accept the downgrade. Indeed, there are occasions where the airline representative either implies or states outright that no further assistance will be provided if the downgrade is refused.It seems relatively simple on a plain reading of the Regulations. Article 4 concerns denied boarding and specifically states that the airline must (along with Article 8 compensation) “assist [the passenger] in accordance with Articles 8 and 9”. Article 8 provides the three options that is the passenger’s right to choose from and which include the all important words “under comparable transport conditions.” Therefore (again on a plain reading) a passenger on a business/first ticket can refuse the downgrade and then be entitled to be rerouted to their final destination “at the earliest opportunity” or “at a later date at the passenger’s convenience” in the same cabin.
Is there any case law to support this or is the answer so clear cut that it has not been tested? Has anyone successfully claimed against BA (or another airline) in these circumstances after the airline refused to go beyond transporting you in a lower class? I’d feel a little ballsy stumping up several grand in the belief that I would get it back due to my view alone of Article 4.
I realise this may not help Slb1970 but I suspect it is of general interest.
What you have to understand here:
– your flight was cancelled. If not extraordinary circumstance you get to have compensation based on distance
– you are then given the option to a refund / voucher / reroute + hotel / food if you need to stay overnight
– as the alternative is in economy a different compensation kicks in (independently from the first one). You now should get back 75% of the avios / cash paid (even if using 241 voucher, the other person gets avios too)
– however, if you arrive on the new flight less that 3 hours later than originally planned you don’t get the first compo as they was because the new flight had a very similar schedule
@StillintheSun – the re-routing regs apply to cancellations, not downgrades. So yes, if your flight is cancelled you have the right to be re-routed in the same cabin. However, the OP states that they have to accept the new flight due to work commitments. By doing this, they give up the re-rerouting rights to “comparable conditions”. To retain this right they’d need to find an alternative flight with a seat in the original cabin and get rebooked onto it, either via MMB or by calling BA. Downgrading you isn’t denied boarding and I think that if you simply refused to fly you’d be classed as a no-show.
The upshot is that in the case of a simple downgrade, you don’t have many rights – just the right to be reimbursed the relevant percentage of the ticket price. There is no legal obligation on the airline to find you a business class seat, or whatever, although a bit of negotiating can sometimes achieve this. I’ve always assumed this is because they’ve fulfilled their duty by getting you where you need to go, albeit under less comfortable conditions. Hence you get some unhappy pax who get booted out of CW en route to Maldives and the likes, (maybe) because they’re on a 241 booking!
@yonasl and @NorthernLass. Thank you that is helpful. In essence is everyone agreed that say I don’t want to accept the downgrade on my original flight, I can ask for say business on the next flight out but if BA refuses that request I’m essentially stuck with the downgrade?
Presumably there are no bright ideas to get around this? I wonder if there is any case law widening the scope of “denied boarding” to being denied boarding in your booked cabin. I wouldn’t be particularly hopeful on winning on that interpretation but in law plenty of seemingly good arguments fail and bad ones win.
I suspect if BA single me out on my return from Cape Town next year I’m stuck with it!
It’s only denied boarding if you’re not allowed on the plane, regardless of cabin class. Hopefully @JDB will be here soon with his wisdom but my thoughts are that the legislation is pretty clear on what the remedy for a downgrade is and it would be unlikely that a court would allow that to be stretched any further.
So yes, I think the choice would be between accepting the downgrade or throwing yourself on an airline’s goodwill to be moved to another flight, and there have been incidences of people being offered alternatives reported here.
Getting bavk to @slb1970’s problem wbich is different.
1. If receiving any cancellation always go onto the website and check is the flight you’ve received a cancellation for, still running.
This is because if a well-booked aircraft is switched to a smaller one, or if the airline wanted to have your seats back to sell, what they will send you is a flight cancellation. That many others on the flight are not gettimg. So do always check..
2. In this case I’m wondering if an A380 has gone tech ao passengers are being moved to smaller aircraft or the actual flight cancelled. If the root cause is an aircraft gone tech for a flight cabcellation then the airline if a UK/Europe basee airline, or if it’s any airline and the flight is dwparting UK or Europe, then the airline can’t say it’s out of their control or exceptional circumstances so compensation should be gettable for each seat whether avios or 241 or cash paid.
If you’re eligible for compensation then this may be reduced or denied if you end up arriving at the end of the journey (inckuding a journey where you connect) no later than within x hours of your original time. Another poster has said that’s 3 hours in thr case of this flight.
3. Separately, if downgraded and you keep it very clear it’s involuntary, you accept under protest because there’s no other way home etc, yes you can claim 75% of what ypu paid for your seat, if downgraded from J to Y on longhaul.
Personally I”d be lookong at AA’s schedule and asing to be rerouted onto AA flights with Business Class that you’ve identified if your BA flight is cancelled. Even connecting flights. The cancelling airline, if subject to Ezu/UK261, is not allowed to insist an award seat has to be available to book you into, you have the right to be booked into any seat available. Technically, on any airline but practically AA is a good option that BA is most likely to do willingly.
I’d dondowngrade reimbursement laim seprately from compo claim after the flight. If I paid avios I’d actually want the cash value back not thebavios, based on whatever BA’s current seling price is – it’s revently movec higher than the previous 1.6p per avios I think.
Also you might as well try to find out the reason for the cancellation – may or may not turn oit to be true but make a careful timed note of it anyway.
Let us know what happens
@StillintheSun – “denied boarding” is defined within the Regulations and Interpretative Guidelines and the instance reported on this thread is different. This was a short notice cancellation which engaged Article 5.1(c)(iii) and Article 8 and potentially Article 9. When BA sends such cancellation emails, they sometimes provide an alternative option and their first choice rerouting is usually to avoid triggering cancellation compensation by staying within the -1hr/+2hr window, even if that involves a downgrade. While downgrading doesn’t meet the “comparable transport conditions” criterion, there is no sanction for breach of any of the Articles, although the airline will be required to pay 75% downgrade reimbursement for a long haul flight (and it’s the same however many classes you are downgraded). The passenger has no obligation to accept BA’s proposed rerouting and other options even on the same day if from the US will almost certainly be available in MMB or by calling, but once you accept a rerouting, that’s it; you don’t get a second chance. If you have the flexibility to wait for a flight in the originally booked class, which many don’t, the airline is theoretically on the hook for hotel/food until that flight, but there must be limits and any such costs must still meet the “necessary, appropriate and reasonable” so holding out may carry some risks. There is of course potentially the option of self rerouting if BA refuses but that carries a fair degree of risk.
Thanks very much @NorthernLass, @Lady London @JDB. I’ve been out of the HFP loop for a while and so completely deskilled 😉
I have my first 241 in a few years and hoped there might be a clever workaround. Never mind, after 2 weeks of wine tasting a more limited bar will probably do me good.Hope it all works out for you @SitS
Just a thought occurred re: a trip later in October. Avios 241 INV-FNC in CE. Booked as no overnight stays required on o/b and I/b journeys. However it’s over the summer /winter schedule change so BA sent cancellation of our return from LHR-INV flight ( as BA dropped the evening flight back) and offered the early flight ….same day before we’d even left FNC! Waited to see if BA would register the impossible But No.! Phoned up and eventually we are now booked on the INV flight for the following day requiring BA to fork out for overnight duty of care etc.
I’ll just be glad to get home and BA pay for the hotel and meal
However, given we eventually arrive at our final destination 15 hours later than originally expected, would this scenario be due compensation?
@Jill Kinkell – I’m afraid there’s no compensation due as you were notified of the change more than 14 days in advance. BA is on the hook for your ‘right to care’ costs irrespective of the notice period.
@Jill Kinkell – I’m afraid there’s no compensation due as you were notified of the change more than 14 days in advance. BA is on the hook for your ‘right to care’ costs irrespective of the notice period.
@JDB Thankyou. I wasn’t really expecting compo. just that the intricacies of the EU/UK261 and airlines seeming reluctance to comply make it a challenge to know what one is legally entitled to. Hurrah for sites like this and such helpful posters. As I said, I’ll just be glad to get home and I’ll know for the future not to book over the winter/summer and summer/ winter scheduling weekend!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Popular articles this week:
