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My return leg flight was cancelled and seat downgraded from NYC back in May 2023.
BA have finally delivered something by way of recompense for the seat downgrade, but I’ve no idea what they’ve done so I’m hoping someone here can advise.Flights were booked on 6th March 2023. 134,000 avios were used for 2 passengers, along with 2 Barclays upgrade vouchers which put us into Club World outbound and Premium Economy inbound. The total cash element of the booking was £660 total for both passengers.
The return flight was cancelled and we were dropped into Economy on an AA flight the following day.
Here’s what came through from BA:
“our refunds team has advised that you were refunded 25,000 Avios on 2nd Jan”.
Ignoring whether that is correct or not for a minute. Here’s what I see in my transactions for 2nd Jan:
BA Barclays Cabin Upgrade Voucher Redeposit: +67,000 avios
and then an entry above that on the same date which says:
Reward Flight:
Newcastle to London Heathrow. Class: World Traveller Plus. Departure Date: 28 Feb 2025. BA1321: -48,750 avios.Which doesn’t even net out to +25,000 avios.
I haven’t booked any flight from Newcastle so I’ve no idea what that is.
Its been 8 months waiting for this to get resolved so to receive an email that doesn’t match up to reality (which is clearly a balls-up anyway) is rather annoying.
Can someone advise here?
1. Am I right in saying the compensation should have been 75% of the value of the seats booked in Premium economy (in Avios?) plus 75% of the cash element of the booking?
2. Where should I go from here with BA? Is it even worth calling them? Or straight to ombudsman now?It’s 75% of the fare including cash for the sector downgraded. So assuming you paid 134k Avios for the entire trip you would not get 75% of that figure.
You need to find out what the WTP one way fare JFK-LHR in Avios + cash is. You should get a refund of 75% of that x 2 for each passenger downgraded.
Also did you pay a peak or off-peak fare?
According to the table elsewhere here on HfP one way WTP LHRJFK is either 42.5k or 60k so no idea where BA gets 67k from
As a further question what was the reason for the cancellation as you may also be entitled to compensation for the flight cancellation at £520 per passenger.
@NunoBettencourtsPinky – if you are in a household account, have you checked all the other deposits/debits from each member to see the total net sum credited? It is often multiple transactions, reimbursing the original and then recharging the lower sum. We are three in HHA and a recent downgrade for two resulted in ten Avios transactions that were ultimately correct.
I would make every effort to try and resolve this with BA rather than rushing off to CEDR (not Ombudsman) as BA is pretty good at bamboozling CEDR on these transactions so you might not get the outcome you hope for/expect.
It’s 75% of the fare including cash for the sector downgraded. So assuming you paid 134k Avios for the entire trip you would not get 75% of that figure.
I understand that any refund would only relate to the return leg that was downgraded. But to clarify, the refund should be part avios, and part cash – both parts relating to the return leg only?
According to the table elsewhere here on HfP one way WTP LHRJFK is either 42.5k or 60k so no idea where BA gets 67k from
67K appears to be half the total paid in Avios for the entire booking, so I’m assuming the one way economy avios cost was 67000 for two? I’m pretty confident it was an off-peak fare.
As a further question what was the reason for the cancellation as you may also be entitled to compensation for the flight cancellation at £520 per passenger.
Yes that came through pretty quickly last year.
My bigger concern is this random avios flight booking that they’ve applied to my account, which must be related to this “refund”. Maybe they tried to use that to adjust the refund. But either way it doesn’t add up to what they tell me they refunded.
One can’t help feeling that part of the strategy of handling these sorts of claims is to indeed bamboozle the passenger. I’ve constantly asked BA to confirm what I should expect and they never replied, only saying they were very busy and I should wait.
“I understand that any refund would only relate to the return leg that was downgraded. But to clarify, the refund should be part avios, and part cash – both parts relating to the return leg only?”
Yes that’s correct. I don’t know what the cash element of a ticket from JFK-LHR in WTP would be. This is the issue with the RFS pricing for reward bookings as it doesn’t actually match government taxes plus YQ elements of a cash fare.As @JDB asked, are you in a Household Account as that might also explain the weird figures? Either way it’s further complicated as you used 2 Barclays upgrade vouchers which, as HfP puts it, is really a ‘book a flight but only pay the Avios you would have paid if you had booked in the next lowest cabin‘ voucher. Since there were 2 of you one voucher presumably was used on the return. So I would hope BA took account of this fact and reimbursed based on a WTP Avios fare rather than simply refunding the difference between what you paid and a WT Avios fare. Did you get your voucher back by the way?
I also don’t really think it is as simple as dividing the total fare paid by two. In order to help further we really need to know the breakdown between the outbound and the inbound fare in both Avios and cash. Plus in order to take account of the fact that you bought a WTP fare using the upgrade voucher, assuming it was off-peak I would expect to get back 75% x 42,500 = 31,875 Avios but that really depends on what whether 42,500 is what you would have paid.
I have a very similer situation relating to an outbound downgrade from Club to WTP last October. A Barclaycard upgrade voucher was used for one person, so I paid 95,000 Avios for WTP plus £450 and this got both sectors upgraded to Club. On 2nd January I too received a redeposit of a sum unrelated to anything that I could find, plus a transaction using the upgrade voucher of a Club Europe trip to Seattle. The original booking was to Seattle but it definitely wasn’t Club Europe! I’ve worked out that the net refund I’ve received was 37,000 avios, which is far short of what should have been paid under EC261 – and there has been no refund of any part of the cash element.
I know your transaction and mine are only 2 examples, but it does seem strange that these opaque transactions are in both cases dated 2nd January and both involved Barlcaycard upgrade vouchers. I fully intend to chase the rest of the reimbursement with CEDR, at which stage BA will hopefully have to spell out exactly how they have calculated the 37000 avios redeposit.@SilverPenguin – do not under any circumstances leave BA to do the calculation for CEDR! Do not expect BA to spell it out. That’s how they will win. The use of a phantom sector to effect the refund and extend the life of the PNR is quite normal.
Also, as advised above it’s much better to resolve with BA if you can. Do the calculations for Avios and cash elements on the downgraded sector, allowing for use of the Barclays voucher on a per person basis and in total. Set it all out very clearly so there’s absolutely no room for error.
Then put it to BA, deducting what they have paid so far and the balance of Avios/cash still owed.
@SilverPenguin – do not under any circumstances leave BA to do the calculation for CEDR! Do not expect BA to spell it out. That’s how they will win. The use of a phantom sector to effect the refund and extend the life of the PNR is quite normal.
Also, as advised above it’s much better to resolve with BA if you can. Do the calculations for Avios and cash elements on the downgraded sector, allowing for use of the Barclays voucher on a per person basis and in total. Set it all out very clearly so there’s absolutely no room for error.
Then put it to BA, deducting what they have paid so far and the balance of Avios/cash still owed.
Thank you for your reply. I did put the exact figures very clearly to BA and referred to the relevant Article in EU261, but they ignored my calculations -their final offer was for a £300 voucher. When I rejected this, agasin quoting EU261, the following response came “The amount of compensation is in line and is a set limit. This means I’m unable to increase our offer” which of course is complete nonsense.
This 37000 avios redeposit has come out of the blue – there has been no further correspondence from BA. I honestly don’t know whether it’s worth going back to BA at this stage, as they have already stated that they will not increase their offer.Well I’d go back to them – tell them what you want (calculated) and explain you will go to CEDR and ask for that. If it’s reasonable under EU261, not sure why they wouldn’t agree to it. But hey, that’s common sense talking.
I’ve already given them the exact figures I am claiming, both Avios and cash for the YQ, and have told them that as they have stated that the £300 voucher is their final offer I will proceed to open a case with CEDR. It’s as if I’m dealing with an AI bot – the responses are makiing no sense at all.
I’ve already given them the exact figures I am claiming, both Avios and cash for the YQ, and have told them that as they have stated that the £300 voucher is their final offer I will proceed to open a case with CEDR. It’s as if I’m dealing with an AI bot – the responses are makiing no sense at all.
If they have offered £300 voucher plus 37k Avios what is the difference you are still expecting for a one way downgrade?
The voucher is of no use as have no plans to travel over the next year so this has already been rejected. I claimed reimbursement of 67,500 avios, calculated as follows:
Ticketed in Club – paid for with 95000 avios and a Barclaycard upgrade voucher – club off peak return is 180,000 avios
Downgraded to WTP on one sector.
Price for one sector is 90,000 avios, so claiming 75% of that – 67,500 avios@SilverPenguin – if they have given you £300 + 37,000 Avios that’s the Avios part sorted out?? I would be wary of using a hypothetical Avios value unless it corresponds to the BC voucher Avios/cash mix.
They offered a £300 travel voucher, not £300 cash – I would have accepted £300 cash if it had been offered. EC261 states the following:
If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class lower than that for which the ticket was purchased, it shall within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), reimburse
(c)75 % of the price of the ticket for all flights not falling under (a) or (b)
Articloe 7(3) states:
The compensation referred to in paragraph 1 shall be paid in cash, by electronic bank transfer, bank orders or bank cheques or, with the signed agreement of the passenger, in travel vouchers and/or other services.I genuinely believe that reimbursement by way of a BA voucher is unacceptable under EC261.
@SilverPenguin – just ask for the £300 in cash rather than a voucher then. It’s a straightforward commercial negotiation – with the info you have provided, I can’t see what you are hoping to gain at CEDR.
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