-
I didn’t want to say anything earlier, but yes all the redundant information should go. It’s irrelevant wh whether you missed a wedding/birthday/coffee with a friend or what have you. Stick to the law and facts.
This is precisely what I have been telling here for years that people just don’t know how to write these emails and letters. The moment BA CS and Legal team spot this, they’ll drag by sending generic replied or ignoring it all together just in order to make people give up.
Further to what @meta it’s anyway a huge mistake to mix an EC261 claim with a claim for damages which is simply ludicrous. There is simply no prospect of any Court awarding you those damages for ‘disappointment’ nor paying the £4.5k luggage claim.
Unfortunately, making silly claims compromises the whole, will immediately alert BA to the fact the claimant isn’t serious/properly advised so they will dig their heels in. While one wants to put one’s at its highest, overstating it is usually a fiasco.
Hi Richard
At the end of the day if you want to take the trip and BA are no longer offering the First class cabin, you have to accept the Club world downgrade. Accepting this will NOT affect your ability to claim for the 75% EU / UK 261 reimbursement. Of course, BA will not volunteer to pay this and you are very likely to have to take them to CEDR or MCOL. I have never been through MCOL but have been through the CEDR process 3 times for downgrading by BA on 241 reward flights and have received a 75% cash reimbursement on each occasion. BA will come up with all sorts of excuses including• This does not apply to reward bookings.
• They told you in advance so it does not apply.
• The passenger could have changed their flight to a different one with no downgrade.
• You did not turn up at check in with a First class boarding card so it does not apply.
• The companion voucher passenger’s ticket was “free” so no reimbursement for them.
• They may have already given you the difference in Avios cost and that is all you are due.
• BA can’t provide reimbursement in cash as it was paid for using Avios.The above is of course all nonsense and just trying to get you to give up!
The test in EU / UK 261 Article 10 is “If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class lower than that for which the ticket was purchased, it shall within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), reimburse … 75 % of the price of the ticket” for flights greater than 3500 km. You are likely to be due the reimbursement in CASH less the government and airport fees and charges but including the BA carrier imposed charges all as per the Mennens v Emirates judgement. The Avios cash value can be calculated using the up-to-date price BA sells Avios for on ba.com. BA will dispute the relevance of this but CEDR understood it in my cases.
This is all a bit of work but worth it in the end. Get a copy of EU / UK 261 which is easy to read and follow.
Hope this helps and good luck.
Enjoy the trip.
What a good post @Margarethea.
Does anyone think we need a “ridiculous excuses from BA” thread?
@rakesh
I think you’ve complicated things and will find that this goes to the bottom of the pile for dealing with if BA don’t simply reject out of hand because of the issue of using Cathay Pacific Asia Miles.Dealing with the claim email first unfortunately you have not been clear as to what you are claiming.
I would have written a short summary of what you are claiming under 3 separate headings
1. £4,447.19 being Essential Items expense due to delayed luggage on Flight BA159 from LHR to BDA on 25May2023 Booking Refxxxx
2. £1,414.54 being Downgrade Reimbursement on inbound flight BA158 BDA to LHR on 30 May2023 Booking Ref xxxx
3. £3,120 EC261/2004 Delay Compensation for delay over 3 hours on flight BA158 from BDA to LHR on 30May2023 Booking RefxxxxMoving on to the spreadsheet I notice the following issues:
It is not clear when the downgrade from First to Club happened? I thought initially it was on the inbound flight ie BA159 from BDA to LHR on 30May based on the line at the bottom of the spreadsheet where you claim a figure of £1,414.54 is claimed although I now think it was the outbound flight BA158 that had the issue as per row 7 with the booking ref beginning 5xxxx.I also think BA will reject the extra £110 taxi home – that’s a consequential loss so one for travel insurance especially given the next point which is;
Where did you incur the £150.55 extra meal at hotel due to flight delay? You are obviously entitled to reimbursement under duty of care during a delay but that is when you are waiting for your flight. It looks like you claimed for a meal after arriving at LHR – I would expect BA to reject paying for this as BA is only responsible to get you to LHR. What you do after exiting the airport is not their concern.
Specifically re Delayed Luggage:
You should not be claiming compensation for the delayed baggage in addition to the cost of individual items. As I said before, there is no compensation for delayed luggage. So expect BA to reject £2,500 of your claim.As for the amounts claimed for clothing the amount of £2,696.96 stands out – was that for a replacement of a particularly expensive suit or dress? Unless you can clearly demonstrate this was essential eg as wedding dress needed before luggage turned up I think BA will push back on this
They will probably also reject the £145 laundry bill as well – that’s because the replacement essential items purchased should be sufficient to keep you going until your actual luggage turns up.
Re the Downgrade Reimbursement / compensation
You are also not helping your case by claiming both downgrade reimbursement AND compensation so expect this to be rejected. As I said before, you can only claim downgrade reimbursement. Unfortunately, it is not clear how you arrive at the 75% claimed. I set out a layout in my earlier reply which does not need a spreadsheet attachment.Re the delay compensation you have not set out actual time of arrival versus scheduled arrival. Neither have you given any explanation of the delay you incurred eg Captain apologised for delay and explained it was due to late arrival of inbound flight in BDA. You should set out the basis for the delay compensation – it is then up to BA to accept or reject.
Good luck with your claim but I think you will find that BA won’t easily pay out.
@AJA it’s very decent of you to provide a line by line analysis of the claim that two of us above had simply dismissed as being both muddled and stupid.
It was proudly sent to the BA CEO which is why sending things to him and/or BA legal has now become a redundant route awash with meritless claims.
Thanks @JDB As they say on Mastermind I started so I’ll finish 😀 I think it’s helpful to others at least as an example of how not to present a claim and the reasons why.
On that point, people who take these things seriously should consider reading case outcomes/enforcement papers from regulators. They focus on factual matters of material relevance to the law. Adding in subjective opinions or personal woes just means you have to re-tool your original complaint if and when referring onwards to a regulator/mediation/arbitration/court. The closer you can skew initially to context (flight number, date, cost of ticket – not who was marrying who), problem (a failure under rights or under contractual terms), solution (numerical amount of entitled compensation/refund due, by when, your next steps if no joy) the easier your complaint should flow through the process
Good Morning All,
A plot twist on this one – last Friday evening I received the dreaded your flight is cancelled for my outbound first leg, compounded the issue of the inbound leg downgrade; with no options other than Gatwick for travelling on the same day. Incidentally we were heading down to Gatwick for a short haul trip to Malta that evening (for the flight the day after). This would leave the convoluted option of navigating from Gatwick from Heathrow on the outbound leg if wanting to maintain the first leg (albeit no Concorde lounge or first wing), or accept a downgrade for another flight that day, as I couldn’t fly another day. So, at this juncture not looking particularly rosy for this flight to Doha, due to BA’s endless changes, and the prospect of the EC261 compensation for the downgrade. I had recalled however, as we got on the road, that the You First phoneline were revered as the premium BA customer service hotline; so as the booking was made via my wife’s executive club account, I asked her to call the YouFirst, to a slither of optimism. On calling it did take about 5-10 minutes to get through, and on my wife passing the usual details of booking reference number and flight details; without skipping a beat I could discern from her call, would Qatar Airways First Class be suitable as a replacement from Heathrow Terminal 4, as my wife turned to me for my thoughts, the realisation of moving from a Skoda to a Porsche came to my mind, with an instant grin of definitely! It got yet better, as she asked could you do anything about the return leg as we were sadly downgraded, again the BA agent said of course we can also book you on a Qatar First return that day, as per your original class; so at this stage we had gone from despair to pure euphoria! And after securing our seats, that was that, an instant change via YouFirst of BA flights to Qatar Flights in First, hopefully ending the saga of tumultuous changes! Thus in summary I could not more highly recommend the YouFirst BA hotline, and after countless calls previously through the usual channels, this method was above and beyond the most seamless, satisfying experience!
Good Morning All,
A plot twist on this one – last Friday evening I received the dreaded your flight is cancelled for my outbound first leg, compounded the issue of the inbound leg downgrade; with no options other than Gatwick for travelling on the same day. Incidentally we were heading down to Gatwick for a short haul trip to Malta that evening (for the flight the day after). This would leave the convoluted option of navigating from Gatwick from Heathrow on the outbound leg if wanting to maintain the first leg (albeit no Concorde lounge or first wing), or accept a downgrade for another flight that day, as I couldn’t fly another day. So, at this juncture not looking particularly rosy for this flight to Doha, due to BA’s endless changes, and the prospect of the EC261 compensation for the downgrade. I had recalled however, as we got on the road, that the You First phoneline were revered as the premium BA customer service hotline; so as the booking was made via my wife’s executive club account, I asked her to call the YouFirst, to a slither of optimism. On calling it did take about 5-10 minutes to get through, and on my wife passing the usual details of booking reference number and flight details; without skipping a beat I could discern from her call, would Qatar Airways First Class be suitable as a replacement from Heathrow Terminal 4, as my wife turned to me for my thoughts, the realisation of moving from a Skoda to a Porsche came to my mind, with an instant grin of definitely! It got yet better, as she asked could you do anything about the return leg as we were sadly downgraded, again the BA agent said of course we can also book you on a Qatar First return that day, as per your original class; so at this stage we had gone from despair to pure euphoria! And after securing our seats, that was that, an instant change via YouFirst of BA flights to Qatar Flights in First, hopefully ending the saga of tumultuous changes! Thus in summary I could not more highly recommend the YouFirst BA hotline, and after countless calls previously through the usual channels, this method was above and beyond the most seamless, satisfying experience!
Fantastic result. Definitely better outcome than the original!
Good Morning All,
A plot twist on this one – last Friday evening I received the dreaded your flight is cancelled for my outbound first leg, compounded the issue of the inbound leg downgrade; with no options other than Gatwick for travelling on the same day. Incidentally we were heading down to Gatwick for a short haul trip to Malta that evening (for the flight the day after). This would leave the convoluted option of navigating from Gatwick from Heathrow on the outbound leg if wanting to maintain the first leg (albeit no Concorde lounge or first wing), or accept a downgrade for another flight that day, as I couldn’t fly another day. So, at this juncture not looking particularly rosy for this flight to Doha, due to BA’s endless changes, and the prospect of the EC261 compensation for the downgrade. I had recalled however, as we got on the road, that the You First phoneline were revered as the premium BA customer service hotline; so as the booking was made via my wife’s executive club account, I asked her to call the YouFirst, to a slither of optimism. On calling it did take about 5-10 minutes to get through, and on my wife passing the usual details of booking reference number and flight details; without skipping a beat I could discern from her call, would Qatar Airways First Class be suitable as a replacement from Heathrow Terminal 4, as my wife turned to me for my thoughts, the realisation of moving from a Skoda to a Porsche came to my mind, with an instant grin of definitely! It got yet better, as she asked could you do anything about the return leg as we were sadly downgraded, again the BA agent said of course we can also book you on a Qatar First return that day, as per your original class; so at this stage we had gone from despair to pure euphoria! And after securing our seats, that was that, an instant change via YouFirst of BA flights to Qatar Flights in First, hopefully ending the saga of tumultuous changes! Thus in summary I could not more highly recommend the YouFirst BA hotline, and after countless calls previously through the usual channels, this method was above and beyond the most seamless, satisfying experience!
Amazing – I’m in exactly the same predicament having used a 241 on First to Doha, except I called YouFirst and got given the story that Qatar First is not an option as they have no reward availability. I’ve been offered cancellation or CW and that’s it. You might have just got lucky that QR had First reward availability on those dates. But nice outcome!
Good Morning All,
A plot twist on this one – last Friday evening I received the dreaded your flight is cancelled for my outbound first leg, compounded the issue of the inbound leg downgrade; with no options other than Gatwick for travelling on the same day. Incidentally we were heading down to Gatwick for a short haul trip to Malta that evening (for the flight the day after). This would leave the convoluted option of navigating from Gatwick from Heathrow on the outbound leg if wanting to maintain the first leg (albeit no Concorde lounge or first wing), or accept a downgrade for another flight that day, as I couldn’t fly another day. So, at this juncture not looking particularly rosy for this flight to Doha, due to BA’s endless changes, and the prospect of the EC261 compensation for the downgrade. I had recalled however, as we got on the road, that the You First phoneline were revered as the premium BA customer service hotline; so as the booking was made via my wife’s executive club account, I asked her to call the YouFirst, to a slither of optimism. On calling it did take about 5-10 minutes to get through, and on my wife passing the usual details of booking reference number and flight details; without skipping a beat I could discern from her call, would Qatar Airways First Class be suitable as a replacement from Heathrow Terminal 4, as my wife turned to me for my thoughts, the realisation of moving from a Skoda to a Porsche came to my mind, with an instant grin of definitely! It got yet better, as she asked could you do anything about the return leg as we were sadly downgraded, again the BA agent said of course we can also book you on a Qatar First return that day, as per your original class; so at this stage we had gone from despair to pure euphoria! And after securing our seats, that was that, an instant change via YouFirst of BA flights to Qatar Flights in First, hopefully ending the saga of tumultuous changes! Thus in summary I could not more highly recommend the YouFirst BA hotline, and after countless calls previously through the usual channels, this method was above and beyond the most seamless, satisfying experience!
Fantastic result. Definitely better outcome than the original!
Amazing – I’m in exactly the same position having used a 241 on First to Doha. I called YouFirst as soon as the email cancellation notification came through but they said Qatar First is not an option as there is no First reward availability, so they only offered CW or cancellation as options. Sounds like you might have got lucky with Qatar First reward availability, but great result nevertheless! I’ll keep trying with YouFirst, perhaps a few email threats of UK261 might swing it back my way…
Thanks executiveclubber, yes I was quite taken aback by the ‘upgrade’ to Qatar
I hope you get some joy Deek, even more appreciative knowing it may have been a bit if availability luck with Qatar. You never know YouFirst stil may be able to move some things around for you, but like you say UK261 is a good fall back option.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Popular articles this week:
