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Hi all,
This is really both a BA and Virgin question but as the BA forum seems to have way more traffic I thought I’d get opinions here.
So just some context about me… I currently have both AMEX BAPP and VA Rewards+ credit cards. I also have the free Barclaycard Avios card (but that’s not so important for the question). I don’t fly very often and I have the cards really to get maybe a cheaper Business Class flight with my partner maybe once a year to a long haul destination. I have no airline status with either BA or Virgin.
I took out the BAPP last year to get the companion voucher and SUB, also got the SUB from the Barclaycard Avios+. Those points plus what I already had accumulated from BA/AA flights over the last 10 years or so meant that with the companion voucher I was able to redeem Club World tickets to Tokyo in November, which I’m super excited about. As we hit the voucher pretty quick on the BAPP we moved to the Virgin card while they had the enhanced SUB and are aiming for a 2-4-1/Upgrade voucher on that card, which we’ll probably use with Virgin to go to SFO. We will probably keep the BAPP card for another year as we want to try for reward seats to Hong Kong/Singapore/Sydney (I know this can be tricky but you never know). So here comes the dilemma…
Which card do you think is best to keep in the long term assuming we’ve managed say Hong Kong and Singapore on the next companion voucher?
Benefits of AMEX/BA:
Fly to more places globally (including Far East which is currently what we want to try for).
2-4-1 works in all classes.
I generally prefer AMEX’s app experience and customer service than Virgin Money, but not accepted everywhere (have Barclaycard for those cases).Downsides of AMEX/BA:
There is pretty much no way myself and my partner will accumulate enough Avios for Biz even with companion voucher without having to take out the annual subscription. We signed up for this just before they upped the price but now not sure about doing a second year.Benefits of Virgin Money/Virgin Atlantic:
Virgin/Delta fly directly to places I’m more likely to go to visit friends and family (SLC/IAD)
No points needed at all to redeem voucher – can be used as 2-4-1 or upgrade to cash bookings.
Card accepted everywhere (including paying council tax, energy, water bills etc).
Virgin feels to me like a better airline experience (anecdotally).
Tier points awarded on reward bookings (although still not likely to fly enough anyway).Downsides of Virgin Money/Virgin Atlantic:
Have no status so if we want to fly Upper Class then would be using 50% of required points for second person for 2-4-1.To summarise, I think the main points for me is that the BA option for me will require the Avios subscription to be ongoing to be able to use the voucher for anything decent. The Virgin option gives me a voucher that can be used on cash bookings as and when we fly somewhere (although with more limited destinations).
Sorry this is long, what do people think?
That’s a lot to read so sorry if I missed the point. VS or BA is all about route network for where you want to fly to and from. What I’d say about the US destinations is have a think about using cash ex-EU. You’ll find some nice fares if you can book at say +90 or +120 days, and live with the inflexible nature of these fares. You’ll earn a good number of Miles or Avios depending on who you fly with. In terms of BA, £1500 ex-Dublin to the US is not unusual, although things are different post-pandemic, so you don’t know moving forward, and previously that figure was more like £1200.
For Asia I understand that looking at Qatar flights from the Nordic countries can offer a deal, and also near Silver status on BA, which will allow more baggage and seat selection if they’re a concern.
I’d sum it up by saying BA if you want flexibility and more route options, VS if you want what most people find a better airline experience.The post isn’t really about cheap Biz flights. The point I’m making is that I’m currently spending £250 a year for a BA card £160 a year for the Virgin card predominantly to get their respective vouchers to use on flights on their networks. I want a general consensus on which is the better card to continue paying for long term with the understanding that the BA card requires Avios to use (for which I’d mostly have to acquire through subscription), and that the VS card would not give me 2-4-1 on Upper Class tickets as I’m not a Silver/Gold Flying Club member, but can be used as upgrades on cash tickets to go from PE to UC albeit on a more limited route choice.
My point remains if you pay £250 for a credit card to get a voucher that then requires an Avios subscription that you also pay cash for, then consider cash flights from the off. You are spending a currency you can use for anything in any circumstances for a currency entirely controlled by a commercial organisation with a very limited spend opportunity, and lots of devaluation potential. Rob writes endless articles on the merits of buying points, and the conclusion is always the same, if you have an immediate use for which buying the points is cheaper than cash, then do it, if you’re buying speculatively then don’t do it. Why are you spending over £400 a year to get vouchers of such limited use to you?
In terms of the VS card you can compare historical flight prices and decide if it’s worth the fee for what saving the voucher offers you.
In your circumstances I’d have the free Barclaycard and not concern myself with vouchers, until I was earning enough Avios or Miles to make use of them.
You mention a partner, why not play the Amex referral game while you still can, and while you can sill get pro-rata refunds.
I’m in a similar situation to yourself. We have both the Amex BAPP and Virgin Reward + CC. To be honest, for us it works to have both. We’ll probably keep swapping between the Amex BAPP and the Regular BA Amex, because we don’t obtain large amounts of avios for a long haul business class booking a year – or we’d do one club Europe one year and one club world the next year etc.
The Virgin CC I like because despite the fees being a little more (£330 with Club world BA for long haul vs £520 with Virgin Premium) the fact we can use the vouchers to either upgrade or use it as a companion ticket on a cash fare is invaluable for us.
The amount of avios I’d get instead of spending £10k on the virgin card (and getting the companion ticket) would only be 15k avios if used on the BA Premium Plus Amex, so for us it definitely makes sense to have the virgin card too.I’d tend to use the virgin companion voucher for premium not upper class; or upgrade premium to upper class.
Why are you spending over £400 a year to get vouchers of such limited use to you?
If you were to buy return Business Class seats for two people going from LHR to SFO on current BA prices on 6th-12th March, it would cost you £4840 (£2420 each) in cash for a non flexible fare (although you do get Avios and Tier points for the booking, but as said before I’d still be unlikely to even hit Bronze unless it was part of the BA Holidays double tier points offer.
If I were to buy 200,000 Avios on the subscription (£1989), plus the companion voucher (£250 for the card) plus taxes and fees (£450pp), then your total for nearly fully flexible flights comes in at £3139 (£1570 each). So this is at saving over the cash ticket of around £1700. The companion voucher totally changes the economics of the cash flight. This is also assuming I bought the most expensive Avios subscription option. I think if I bought the 100,000 option I could make up the rest of the points with normal spend/nectar points conversion/Avios boosts.
I’d tend to use the virgin companion voucher for premium not upper class; or upgrade premium to upper class.
I think that’s what we would do too, although I’m thinking we’d just wait for a sale fare in PE to come up and buy that in cash then use the voucher to upgrade the return for both of us maybe? I think we could use points to upgrade one way and the voucher for the other but not 100% sure.
@bennymoom So long as the price of the redemption doesn’t change and there are available flights when you finally have enough Avios. DUB-PSP was available for around £1400 a month or two ago. That would have earned you a lot of Avios and TPs too.
You’ve calculated what both vouchers mean to you, and you seem happy with the potential use of them.
DUB-PSP was available for around £1400 a month or two ago. That would have earned you a lot of Avios and TPs too.
I guess then though you have the additional costs of getting to and from Dublin and staying in a hotel the night before and after (I’d be far to anxious to try and do flights on a separate booking to Dublin on the same day as the main journey in case one was delayed).
I guess then though you have the additional costs of getting to and from Dublin and staying in a hotel the night before and after (I’d be far to anxious to try and do flights on a separate booking to Dublin on the same day as the main journey in case one was delayed).
Yes, there are additional costs and your attitude to risk is a factor. I never give a toss about a connection at the end, but I’ve plenty of time flexibility. A night in Dublin is not unpleasant, and a nice little add on. Of all ex-EU I think of Dublin as by far the easiest and least prone to complete failure. BA have flights from LHR and LCY, and there are so many other options it’s the simplest for me, if not an ideal B2B location.
Also I fully accept PSP is not SFO, but it’s a simple journey between the two. I have plenty of time so if I add a day as a result of a connection that’s fine. If I have a seat and Wi-Fi I can easily put in a few hours to cover an additional day off.
But based on your previous post it seems to me both vouchers are working as you’d want, so keep both.
Given neither airline is great going east I’d focus on Virgin — at least the voucher can be used for cash bookings, and rewards even contributing to status might help one day. Also Virgin Money turn down many applications, in circumstances where Amex don’t, which might also cause one to favour Virgin as the “keeper”.
Nothing to stop you earning a BA companion every few years if there’s a specific redemption you want and can afford. Amex Gold is also good for earning points in either scheme, and if you hit the correct spend levels an effective rate of 1.5 miles/pound for lower fee than BA PP.
Yes, there are additional costs and your attitude to risk is a factor. I never give a toss about a connection at the end, but I’ve plenty of time flexibility. A night in Dublin is not unpleasant, and a nice little add on. Of all ex-EU I think of Dublin as by far the easiest and least prone to complete failure. BA have flights from LHR and LCY, and there are so many other options it’s the simplest for me, if not an ideal B2B location.
The other thing that I should probably have said relevant is that my partner is not a British/EU citizen and is from a country that requires him to have a Schengen visa, so departing from an airport outside of the UK is not really something that’s an easy option. It’s actually logistically easier for us to go on a trip to east coast USA than France as he has a 10 year USA tourist visa.
Also Virgin Money turn down many applications, in circumstances where Amex don’t, which might also cause one to favour Virgin as the “keeper”.
This is good advice! Maybe after we’ve used our second 2-4-1 I’ll switch to AMEX Gold for a bit and focus on Virgin. Especially with Seoul coming up at some point, and Sao Paolo next year there’s a couple of interesting non-US options there.
You need a good card churn strategy. Use your partner and referrals/companion cards to keep earning the Bonuses. It should work for 20 or so cards before Amex do anything.
Be aware that 241 is not always better than partner redemptions.
Learn to avoid telling your friends how you took the family to Asia in business for pennies using points as it was never pennies really and YMMW your friends don’t want to hear it!
To get real benefits you have to commit to hours on HFP and FLyertalk etc which are fun communities but your partner will never understand.
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