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However, even though BA/IB are left with trying to sort out missed connections, I don’t think that’s the reason for this apparent policy change.
These bookings create more calls (three if booking each flight at T-360) additional complexity which means more call centre agent time, more error risk and more pressure on fares/ticketing teams (with added Iberia time pressures) and it all runs counter to getting passengers to do more online and requiring reward bookings outbound/return to be made at the same time.
Presumably it’s the same amount of work as for passengers from the regions booking, e.g. EDI-LHR-xxx, phoning up at t-355 to add the long-haul segment of the return xxx-LHR, then again the next day to add the regional connection LHR-EDI, so would you expect this practice to also be outlawed, based on the ‘outbound & return must be booked at same time’ T&C ?
@Ladyshopper – I’m not sure how you got on with BA in the end but there does appear to have been a change in policy or at least in application of terms and what you experienced is seemingly correct.
I called last week to add a return EZE-MAD-LHR (to my existing MAD-EZE) and was quoted the additional cost in Avios and money. The agent under calculated the Avios (which I corrected) and quoted the additional cash which seemed quite low, but within a possible range. The agent advised that I would receive the new e-ticket within ten minutes.
After two days I called to check and was told to wait another couple of days. I called again on Sunday and got a superb agent who noted that Iberia had entered a ticketing time limit of 9am tomorrow and said he would expedite the booking in the ticketing queue, keep an eye on the booking and call me no later than today if it hadn’t been issued. He duly called this morning to advise that both the Avios and cash quote I had been given were wrong, so that while BA wasn’t bound to honour the price, they would listen to the original call, decide how to proceed and call me later today.
A senior fares/ticketing agent did call this evening to confirm that the Avios quote was wrong and they would need to collect the difference and also that the cash quote was significantly wrong but would be honoured.
However, they said the routing MAD-EZE-MAD-LHR was invalid with a CV, so couldn’t be ticketed! An extraordinarily generous solution, at no cost to me was proposed and gladly accepted. The timely communication, acknowledgement of fault and resolution was exemplary.
In summary BA’s position is that it’s now only possible to have a destination open jaw but not an origin open jaw. I didn’t argue the matter as BA was offering a way round this, but I fear the agent was correct per term 15.10. He wasn’t a rogue agent, but someone senior who had been involved in discussions on this topic internally and with Iberia.
Thanks for the update JDB. I haven’t actually called again, but seems as if with your update that there is no point. I’m glad you managed to get sorted though.
@Scott – the whole thing with initial midnight calls, then subsequent calls to add domestic sectors or returns etc. is rather absurd, unfair and a poor use of resources so will be at risk.
The Iberia situation is rather different though. None of it can be done online if people want to book at T-360, the returning 50% of the Avios cheat (which is a wholly wrong way to do things, but saves much admin and obviates the need to re-ticket) BA has instigated also doesn’t work in this scenario and because of the zone issue, different tax systems, different peak/off peak charts, open jaw and extra cash + Avios collection issues is a whole lot more complicated. Adding a BA domestic sector and/or returning 50% of the Avios and (wrongly) not adjusting the taxes is a doddle and can mostly be done by telephone agents, but fairly much every Iberia one of this type needs to go to the fares/ticketing team but is often not correctly calculated by the telephone agent because it is complex, so creates a lot of unnecessary work/back and forth calls and lots of rather gratuitous reissues. It’s made worse by Iberia’s ticketing time limits.
I was very impressed with BA’s grasp of the issues!
@Flyer/Stayer, you missed “a single PNR”. Obviously there is no MCT on separate bookings!
@JDB, if people could do these things online, then in most instances, they would! I absolutely can’t be bothered with midnight calls but some BA IT issues (e.g. not being able to book a domestic connection in CE with the Barclays upgrade on long haul) are just egregious.Part 2 – adding the MAD-LHR
Just wanted to add the Mad-LHR flight in business to my original booking SJO-MAD, using companion voucher. I couldn’t do it when I booked the long haul as the short haul was not released yet.
First call agent couldn’t even find the flights in the system even though I could see them in Iberia HUCA.
Second agent said it comes to an extra £270- I queried this and she agreed it didn’t make sense but that’s what it is.
Third call – same amount but agent agreed to send it to the “fare team”
Got an email to call them after about 6 hours and when called was advised the fees were £220. Agent agreed to send it back to fare team.
I called back a couple of days later and for some reason they hadn’t looked at it so it was escalated.
Today got an email to call BA. First call – dog barking loudly in the background and agent insisting that the fare was £18 each taxes and £35 each change fee. I said I don’t understand why I need to pay change fee as I couldn’t book it with the long haul. She was quite rude and refused to consider and clearly told me this is the amount, take it or leave it. Said I will think about it and call back.
Second agent – just said it comes to £18 each, no mention of change fee. For some strange reason Avios came to 16,500 instead of 15,000 but at this point had no energy left and just paid the £36 and Avios.That’s a great result I think!
@JaneDoe – glad you got it booked in the end.
@NorthernLass – this is positive for your proposed MAD-MIA-MAD-MAN itinerary as both itineraries fall into Band 6.It is indeed, though many routes don’t require booking as soon as they’re released so I would probably just call and try to get the whole thing booked in one go!
Hang on, I thought it was BA’s position, confirmed by a senior ticketing agent, that adding a domestic leg on the inbound flight (thus creating an ‘origin’ open jaw) was now prohibited. Yet a few days later someone manages to do just that, or have I misunderstood?
It’s to do with the zone. So you can have an open jaw with domestic add-on as long as outbound and inbound are in the same zone. BA hasn’t published zones for years but I guess they still exist!
It’s to do with the zone. So you can have an open jaw with domestic add-on as long as outbound and inbound are in the same zone. BA hasn’t published zones for years but I guess they still exist!
So if I’m understanding correctly, adding a MAD-LHR connection to a flight from EZE (JDB’s scenario) would tip the total distance into the next zone so this is disallowed, whereas coming from SJO (for the OP) adding the LHR connection keeps the distance within the same zone as without the connection, so this is ok?
That really makes it complicated to ascertain whether a connection can be added.
There’s probably an old map or chart of the zones on the internet somewhere.
There’s probably an old map or chart of the zones on the internet somewhere.
You are making an awful lot of erroneous/out of date posts on this topic without any personal knowledge or experience! The Iberia chart of zones or bands is hardly secret and hasn’t changed since it was published here almost three years ago – see below. As identified then, there are quite a few destinations that work particularly well because of where they fall on the distance chart, plus numerous other tricks for price and availability with Iberia’s married segments.
The issue with BA currently objecting to open jaw journeys starting in Madrid and ending in the UK only affects those using a 241 and wanting to book a journey that falls into two different zones. Whether it affects those starting in Madrid but flying back from the Americas to the UK across bands is unknown.
https://www.headforpoints.com/2022/06/16/how-to-book-iberia-avios-flights/
It’s to do with the zone. So you can have an open jaw with domestic add-on as long as outbound and inbound are in the same zone. BA hasn’t published zones for years but I guess they still exist!
So if I’m understanding correctly, adding a MAD-LHR connection to a flight from EZE (JDB’s scenario) would tip the total distance into the next zone so this is disallowed, whereas coming from SJO (for the OP) adding the LHR connection keeps the distance within the same zone as without the connection, so this is ok?
That really makes it complicated to ascertain whether a connection can be added.
Your analysis is correct or at least it accords with my fairly lengthy conversation with a decision maker at BA. If a BA flight is added into the equation, the answer could be anything.
It’s only really a question of checking the mileage. It’s possible that booking the return online (albeit that means booking the Iberia flights at least five or six days after they are released which in my experience isn’t an issue) and claiming back the 50% but agents may be alert to this but in general, via this process they appear not to check any fare rules, taxes etc. and nothing goes to the fares/ticketing team who understand the issues. The risk with this is if you wish or need to change your booking.
It would unfortunately appear that BA is already alert to the seeking 50% Avios reimbursement route to circumvent the new open jaw rules.
This could also affect bookings previously booked on this basis if the passengers want to change them in the future.
Has there been any change for mixed Iberia out/BA back redemptions?
Has there been any change for mixed Iberia out/BA back redemptions?
From a post earlier this morning, it would appear these bookings – Iberia from Madrid to SAm and then BA directly back to London are also affected by the change in policy. Any bookings previously booked on this basis might now effectively be unchangeable.
@Nico – we have to hope also that this is an Iberia thing and that BA won’t start to apply the limited open jaw policy on all BA bookings either from the time of booking or the punitive different zone change policy which it used to apply.
Am a bit late to the thread . Hopefully we are OK. Booked a separate Inv/lhr/mad on BA. Using 241 booked Iberia Mad-Uio then added open jaw Scl-LHR-inv on BA. This was booked last October.
No idea about zones or whether there will be any retrospective penalties if our flights have fallen foul of what appear to be new rules. It’s all ticketed .Am a bit late to the thread . Hopefully we are OK. Booked a separate Inv/lhr/mad on BA. Using 241 booked Iberia Mad-Uio then added open jaw Scl-LHR-inv on BA. This was booked last October.
No idea about zones or whether there will be any retrospective penalties if our flights have fallen foul of what appear to be new rules. It’s all ticketed .I think you will be just fine, as long as you don’t try (voluntarily) to change your booking when there might be problems reissuing the tickets.
I think you will be just fine, as long as you don’t try (voluntarily) to change your booking when there might be problems reissuing the tickets.[/quote]
Thanks @JDB. Reassuring as ever. No intention of doing any changes but who knows what’s ahead. We have 2 separate bookings references as I booked return on the 50% avios back and add on domestic as well at same time. That’s the way the agent did it rather than the usual all in one ticket
@JDB, the link you posted shows a mileage chart, but not everyone has the time to work out these distances.
There are old images of the geographic zones on a map of the world online which these correspond with. The map of availability that either BA or Avios used to show was a really good tool as well, although SeatSpy does have something similar.
Thanks @JDB, I have one such booking over year end to SCL, with the brazilian taxes on the way back to LHR, no plan to change it at least.
Returning to Madrid only is a real pain if one needs to pick luggages, quite a few hours needed and actually higher taxes from Brazil.
It was soo easy to claim the taxes back on the return, so sadly really feels like a change in policy (or I got a competent agent)@Nico – it’s definitely a policy change and one implemented within the last three weeks or so. Whether it affects BA routes eg to Asia where different zone open jaws are popular remains to be seen. Now everyone will be wishing for an incompetent agent that lets it slip though or misadvises one such that BA has to fix it. It only affects voucher bookings.
@NorthernLass – yes, that HfP link is a mileage chart because that’s what is behind these changes and, as with BA, sets reward pricing even if BA no longer publishes the chart or refers to zones, they are all still there!It doesn’t exactly take very long to check mileages and many posters are clearly already doing so for checking open jaw routings, RTW, circle fare or multi-carrier reward routings as well as checking the MPM on cash fares, often more cost effective than point to point fares and adding separate tickets. One can also ascertain the BA zones by looking at the required Avios for different destinations.
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