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Need some advice for rebooking cancelled flights and airlines obligations.
Our Family of 5 was due to fly TLV-LHR with Virgin and they cancelled the flight more than 14 Days in advance. As there are few airlines flying and extremely high demand, they could only offer a flight with Elal 2 days later.
On phone manager agreed to offer an option Elal to Paris and then Air France to London. Agreed all times etc. and when it went to ticketing dept they refused to process saying it’s against protocol in place for reprotection options for cancellations on this route. Manager was overruled by ticketing department.
It is illogical due to the number of passengers rebooking onto Elal from Virgin and BA cancellations to book direct options only and I was offering to be inconvenienced with the stopover with the upside that I get back home pretty much at the time planned.What are my rights can I force Virgin to book me the stopover to get home roughly the same time as planned, or do I need to accept their offer to fly 2 days late?
If so do they need to pay for food, car hire & accommodation for the extra 2 night’s stay.
Am I entitled to Compensation from airline?
Can I claim anything off travel insurance (AmEx Plat) either to get me home quicker or to cover cost of extra nights away.
@Nepweno – you can’t force Virgin to do anything, it’s a matter of the best/least bad rerouting you can negotiate. In theory, if you deem what Virgin offers totally unsuitable, you could book something more suitable yourself and try to claim the money back but that’s not really advisable here.
You aren’t entitled to any compensation as the cancellation was with more than 14 days notice but in any event I would expect ‘extraordinary circumstances’ to apply. Virgin would however, be responsible for your reasonable hotel/food costs pending your rerouting but not the extra car hire costs. They might possibly pay the car costs but there is no obligation on them.
I’m not sure that Amex Plat would offer any cover in these circumstances and they will anyway require you to claim from the airline first. Your travel insurance may well not cover anything anyway in light of FCDO advice against all but essential travel to Israel (and none at all to certain areas).
@JDB thanks for your advice here.
So if I understand correctly its ultimately a negotiation, the issue with this is there is nothing I can use to negotiate they have dug heels in and say we have offered you a direct flight 2 days late. Are there any rules or law that I can use against them to offer a reasonable alternative ?
Has anyone had experience of a rerouting option with stopover I would have thought its pretty standard procedure as a cancelled flight means rebooking everyone on the same route which would always take some time to have enough seats available whereas a stopover makes use of less busy routes.
@Nepweno – the law (EC261 Article 8.1(b) says “re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity” but that is of course open to interpretation. The Interpretative Guidelines say that connections should be avoided where possible but that shouldn’t mean you can’t have a connecting flight. The reality must be that Virgin has a commercial rebooking agreement with El Al on this route but not with Air France (although part of their SkyTeam family) for longer term cancellations. That’s the law but you can’t force strict application of it on your terms. That’s an issue that would have to be decided later at ADR or MCOL if you reach deadlock. What’s reasonable to you may be different to what’s reasonable in the eyes of the airline and adjudicator or judge. It appears that Virgin’s problem is the last leg from a European city so I guess you need to ask if there are any other connecting flights they might agree to rebook and ticket – look up and see what’s available and give them some options. If they still say no, you then have to decide whether you want to accept travelling two days later, rebooking something directly yourself and either getting a refund and claiming the difference or claiming for the full cost of your self rerouting.
@JDB – a warzone will be extraordinary circumstances, but refusing to book you on a possible re-routing is clearly going to fail the all reasonable measures test, when the alternative proposed is 2 days later.
If the cancellation had been closer in then compensation would have been due, but more than 14 days out it’s clearly not due.
There are flights to Larnaca tomorrow.
@JDB – a warzone will be extraordinary circumstances, but refusing to book you on a possible re-routing is clearly going to fail the all reasonable measures test, when the alternative proposed is 2 days later.
If the cancellation had been closer in then compensation would have been due, but more than 14 days out it’s clearly not due.
@Matt – without knowing all the facts, it’s anyway impossible to say that the OP’s case would fail “the all reasonable measures test” but as no such test exists, it’s a bit immaterial.There are flights to Larnaca tomorrow.
If the cancellation was made more than 14 days out, it would be odd if the OP had left it until the day before the cancelled flight to sort out new arrangements??
@JDB – a warzone will be extraordinary circumstances, but refusing to book you on a possible re-routing is clearly going to fail the all reasonable measures test, when the alternative proposed is 2 days later.
If the cancellation had been closer in then compensation would have been due, but more than 14 days out it’s clearly not due.
The OP needs FIVE seats which makes rebooking harder espececially when the rebooking options are limited due to the circumstances
There might be earlier options if the OP is willing to split the party down but I appreciate that it’s not always ideal to split a family up but it’s something I suggest the OP considers and puts that to VS.
VS when offering the reroute will be looking at putting all 5 passengers on the same flight.
@JDB – a warzone will be extraordinary circumstances, but refusing to book you on a possible re-routing is clearly going to fail the all reasonable measures test, when the alternative proposed is 2 days later.
If the cancellation had been closer in then compensation would have been due, but more than 14 days out it’s clearly not due.
@Matt – without knowing all the facts, it’s anyway impossible to say that the OP’s case would fail “the all reasonable measures test” but as no such test exists, it’s a bit immaterial.@JDB – a warzone will be extraordinary circumstances, but refusing to book you on a possible re-routing is clearly going to fail the all reasonable measures test, when the alternative proposed is 2 days later.
If the cancellation had been closer in then compensation would have been due, but more than 14 days out it’s clearly not due.
@Matt – without knowing all the facts, it’s anyway impossible to say that the OP’s case would fail “the all reasonable measures test” but as no such test exists, it’s a bit immaterial.Compensation doesn’t just depend on extraordinary circumstances. Even if there are (as here) extraordinary circumstances, if the airline fails to deploy all reasonable measures to avoid delay then compensation is still due. There are 2 legs to the decision, not just “are there extraordinary circumstances?”
Failing to book on alternative airlines with available seats, in favour of making the passenger wait two days, is a fairly clear case of not taking all reasonable measures.
Apologies, I was referring to the operation of the legislation, not a specifically named legal test, sorry I didn’t make that clear.
To clarify we are still more than 14 days out on the return flight travel is for a family event and deemed essential travel for Travel insurance (my opinion). The issue is just getting back for work commitments/school.
We did offer being split up which didnt help.
We prefer the stop over option as it would get us back around the same time. It seems strange that Virgin cant see the sense in getting 5 people off the busier route who are willing to accept a stop over even if it may cost a small amount to place on a partner (Air France) I find it hard to believe the cost of CDG to LHR is the issue rather than just a blanket policy decision for usual cancelations which is nonsensical when dealing with many flgihts cancelled back to back on an already very busy route.
The fact is the manager offered a stopover originally. There was then a back and forth to the manager as after his approval the CS agent initially offered Elal to Milan and BA on to London but this was not allowed by the manager as they could only reprotect using a direct BA service not with Elal and BA I suspet this may have been due to not being able to ticket as a connection leaving me exposed if delayed. The TLV-CDG (elal) CGD – LHR (AF) was deemed acceptable but the ticketing department said it went against current protocols put in place for this route which is the issue here did they have the right to put a protocol like this in place?
@JDB appreciate the guidance would add though the guidlines referring to stopovers would be applicable if it were Virgin inssiting I take a stopover here I am offering to.Thanks everyone for your help on this.
To clarify we are still more than 14 days out on the return flight travel is for a family event and deemed essential travel for Travel insurance (my opinion)..
What is your travel insurer’s opinion?
@Nepweno – the rationality of a connection and what VS initially offered but reneged upon count for nothing. You need to deal with the the situation offered by VS now. You can propose other connecting journeys, but if they still refuse, you are effectively left with the choice of waiting for two days (and that option may disappear given the situation) with VS paying reasonable hotel/food costs or making your own arrangements and claiming only the flight cost afterwards, but for five people and so few flight options, that’s going to be a lot of cash at risk. The reasonableness of your actions in a complex situation like this isn’t at all black and white so whether you would win or night is debatable. Unfortunately, we have seen that Virgin treats passengers absolutely appallingly in these situations. BA looks positively angelic in comparison.
Re the insurance, as intimated above, I’m afraid your opinion counts for nothing. It is generally accepted that “life events” like a wedding could constitute “essential travel” but that depends eg on the closeness of the relationship of each member of the travelling party.
If the insurance cover matters to you, you need to seek clarification because even if your reason for travel were deemed “essential” that doesn’t actually mean you are covered. The policy makes that very clear. It’s a very complex area and potentially only subject to clarification at the time of a claim, so you need to research carefully.
If the insurance cover matters to you, you need to seek clarification because even if your reason for travel were deemed “essential” that doesn’t actually mean you are covered.
100x this — neither of my annual policies would cover essential travel to an FCDO ‘essential only’ area. You should assume you are not insured, rather than assume you are.
If I may jump on this with the same issue but different airlines.
One party were due to fly from TLV to London and the flight was cancelled by Easyjet over 14 days before flight. Easyjet have not given the option of rerouting. May they book themselves, probably will need to arrange via a stopover as all direct flights all full, and do they have a chance to get reimbursement from Easyjet for cost of flights home?
Another party have a flight TLV to London, with Wizzair. The flight has not been cancelled but its now within 14 days of flight and the way things are going, the flight will get cancelled.
Do they have a chance to claim there own rerouting costs from Wizzair?@LondonFly – it’s an issue with LCCs that they don’t have the same rebooking/ticketing arrangements with other airlines. If easyJet gives you the go ahead, as the cost of rebooking will likely be unusually high, get various quotes to confirm that the amount spent was reasonable. They seem to be relatively decent about this, even if they make you do the work and leave you out of pocket while you claim. With Wizz the cost and getting reimbursed is likely to be a much bigger problem. I don’t think either will reimburse you until after you have flown.
Re-routing is an absolute right, regardless of when a flight is cancelled, however airlines do differ in how easy they make this. At the very least you need to give the airline the opportunity to re-route you – and keep records of any refusal or failure to engage or co-operate. At that point you can consider making your own arrangements, but be aware that if the airline refuses to reimburse you, you may have to take legal action to recover your costs.
Has either party tried to contact the respective airlines?
The 14 day issue relates only to compensation, however it’s very unlikely that cancellations under these circumstances would qualify as they are definitely outside the airlines’ control.
Pls delete
Thank you Northernlass and JDB
Easyjet have said on the phone that they will not reroute. Only refund, voucher, or future flight
Wizzair have not yet cancelled but they have been cancelling around 48 hours before each flight and very likely to cancel.1. Where do I stand with easyjet?
2. With wizzair, if I were to book myself rerouting options now(as any routes are getting more difficult), BEFORE they cancel, and if they refuse to reroute when(IF they cancel), could I make a claim for rerouting even though the reroute was booked before the cancellation?@LondonFly – re easyJet, ask them to give you the OK to reroute yourself and for them to reimburse you. This is something others have reported that easyJet does because it isn’t in a position to do so itself. If they refuse (and keep a good note with dat/time of the first refusal mentioned in your earlier post and any subsequent ones). After that you have the option of rebooking yourself and claiming the cost or asking for a refund on the explicit basis that it is simply being taken as part payment towards new flights that they should have been arranging.
Re Wizz, you can’t really pre-empt their cancellation and still be confident of getting reimbursed, even if that works out cheaper for them. If Wizz spotted that the flights were bought before the cancellation, that’s a basis for not reimbursing you.
Easyjet definitely did set up some sort of ticketing arrangement with ELAL shortly after the October 6th 2023 massacre.
I have just looked back over the replacement flights they booked for family members at the time who were originally flying to Amsterdam with Easyjet and got rebooked on an ELAL service by the call centre.
Maybe they have since cancelled that arrangement? I did hear it was open to abuse as ELAL was allowing fee free flight cancellations as credits so people were booking many seats on very cheap Easyjet flights to/from TLV, waiting for them to rolling cancel, get rebooked on ELAL then cancel for credit thats valid for 12 months.
@Nepweno Could you get rebooked on BA then if they did cancel, they have no problem rerouting on AF or any other “normal” airline. I don’t know how it works though if the booking goes back to Virgin if the BA flight got cancelled instead of BA.Regarding insurance:
I definitely wouldn’t rely on any UK insurer other than specialist ones like Battleface that have a policy specifically for the situation in Israel (very expensive and limited cover).
Theres a really good English speaking insurance provider that I have used (and claimed on) multiple times before on group trips I ran to Israel. For under 60s its under £3 a day, includes quite a few pre existing conditions, from a reputable insurer, non self funded claims etc. Egert & Cohen
To add a bit, the Wizzair flight leaving TLV is to Wawsaw, and then a completely separate wizzair flight from WAW- london. If the TLV-WAW flight gets cancelled I assume there is no hope for a refund for the WAW- london flight?
@Internet179, the insurance you mentioned is great but it’s ONLY tourist health insurance@LondonFly you can book through Kiwi.com with their disruption protection. Going through Momondo usually adds it on free of charge.
If/when your first flight gets cancelled, or if you will be missing your connection, they will show you other travel options with similar times/dates/airports. I had this happen with a TUS Air flight I was supposed to take yesterday and got rebooked on a similar itinery through a different European city.
Yes the insurance is only health but I feel thats the meain risk for us and the Battleface policy is so crazy expensive for the small cover it provides. They will also only offer policies within 7 days of travel I think.
To add a bit, the Wizzair flight leaving TLV is to Wawsaw, and then a completely separate wizzair flight from WAW- london. If the TLV-WAW flight gets cancelled I assume there is no hope for a refund for the WAW- london flight?
Not really a lot of hope I’m afraid. It’s hard enough getting Wizz to pay money they owe you, let alone hoping they will pay anything just to be nice.
Thanks for flagging the insurance issues I will double check what cover we have in place.
@LondonFly I know people with similar situation with Ryanair they cancelled the TLV to Berlin leg and are refusing anything other than a free Ryanair flight I assume the LCC try it on and assume passengers will just accept their position.
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