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Hi all,
I have a trip to Buenos Aires in Club World in November, booked with Avios.
I’ve just heard that my inbound flight has been cancelled, and BA has offered a flight the following day.
I believe this gives rise to a duty of care obligation (accommodation, food etc.). If I’m right, how does that process work? What budget is allowed?
(I am also tempted to push for a flight in Business class on another airline on the original day, but I know that BA will make that very difficult…)
Thanks,
Tim
What is your belief based on?
It’s July, your flight is in November, is your proposed claim reasonable?
If your re-routing thoughts include Iberia flights, just ask and see what happens.BA standard customer guideline option 1 is rebook on any BA or IB flight -3 up to + 14 days from the original travel date. So there should be no pushback in getting IB via Madrid if you want that.
Otherwise there isn’t a fixed limit for duty of care but BA guideline is £200 per night . You’d need to pay and claim back via their website on your return
Duty of care. Either (a) claim for the extra night in the hotel plus any car hire/food retrospectively when you get home or (b) ask to be rerouted on another one world carrier via Madrid or similar before you go.
Choose which you prefer.
Be re-routed on ANY carrier 😉 That’s what the law (UK261) states. I’m sure they’ll push back, but them’s the rules. Though who doesn’t love a free extra day of holiday!
The regulation does not say “any carrier”.
It says “comparable transport conditions”. Which isn’t the same as “any”.
Please don’t make stuff up.
Be re-routed on ANY carrier 😉 That’s what the law (UK261) states. I’m sure they’ll push back, but them’s the rules. Though who doesn’t love a free extra day of holiday!
What @BAFlyerIHGStayer says is correct and the distinction really does matter – if you overplay your hand, insisting you have carte blanche, an airline may just refund you. It’s also very live/topical with BA cancelling one of its daily HK flights and VS pulling the Shanghai route. BA is offering to reroute on its other flight, QR or LH/LX but not CX. Would it be reasonable for a passenger to insist on CX or self reroute on CX and claim the cost? Almost certainly not.
Virgin isn’t yet offering rerouting and never properly did so after pulling GRU and HKG but this time the regulator and vigilantes will force them to do so. One option they will likely offer is on a similarly timed flight with alliance partner China Eastern which may not be to everyone’s taste. Is the passenger entitled to refuse that?
The regulation does not say “any carrier”.
It says “comparable transport conditions”. Which isn’t the same as “any”.
Please don’t make stuff up.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to make stuff up and imply it was the customer’s choice – just commenting on the OP’s desire to opt for a flight the same day as the cancelled one. More that the regs state “at the earliest opportunity”, rather than the next flight the carrier/codeshare partner has available. Lots of low-cost carriers are notoriously bad at not offering alternate carriers, leaving people stranded for days and days.
I don’t blame carriers for offering a flight on their own metal, but I wouldn’t consider a next day flight acceptable unless it suited me or was the only option available.
What @BAFlyerIHGStayer says is correct and the distinction really does matter – if you overplay your hand, insisting you have carte blanche, an airline may just refund you.
The regs don’t allow that – they offer the customer the choice of a refund (plus a flight back to the original destination). Not that I’d consider that reasonable if you’re offered re-routing (I think the spirit of the regs is important). A next-day flight (free day of holiday) might suit many people, but not all people/circumstances.
Anyway, good luck to the OP!
I called yesterday but was told that they could only rebook me where there is Avios availability 🙄 Guess I’ll be trying again!
What @BAFlyerIHGStayer says is correct and the distinction really does matter – if you overplay your hand, insisting you have carte blanche, an airline may just refund you.
The regs don’t allow that – they offer the customer the choice of a refund (plus a flight back to the original destination). Not that I’d consider that reasonable if you’re offered re-routing (I think the spirit of the regs is important). A next-day flight (free day of holiday) might suit many people, but not all people/circumstances.
Anyway, good luck to the OP!
@lhar you don’t get a refund plus a flight back to your original destination as you suggest above unless you are mid-journey on connecting flights. If you are at your destination and your return flight is cancelled, it’s a choice between a refund or the return flight, definitely not both.
Hi all,
I have a trip to Buenos Aires in Club World in November, booked with Avios.
I’ve just heard that my inbound flight has been cancelled, and BA has offered a flight the following day.
I believe this gives rise to a duty of care obligation (accommodation, food etc.). If I’m right, how does that process work? What budget is allowed?
(I am also tempted to push for a flight in Business class on another airline on the original day, but I know that BA will make that very difficult…)
Thanks,
Tim
Full duty of care as per UK261
There is no compensation as more tan 14 days in advance.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/eur/2004/261/contents
There is no limit on cancellations and you can ask to be rerouted on IB via MAD in same class. You do not need Avios availability simply seats in any booking class.Indeed you could push for other airlines if they better suited you schedule but the IB flights are good. Travel must be in the same class or higher.
Do not be scared by the “airline could just refund you” That is nonsense. Read the regulation, it is very basic English and not in least ambiguous. When an airline cancels the power switches from them to the consumer and what then happens is you choice, not theirs. If they refund with you asking for it just buy seats, travel and take them to CEDR.
Finally be careful, you only get to choose once from the 3 options and once you do you cannot go back and ask again.
In my case I simply left things alone until 2 months before travel. I was then re routed on Qatr in F ex LHR and J ex DOH as that was my ticket and I agreed to the downgrade for the ex DOH sector.
I called yesterday but was told that they could only rebook me where there is Avios availability 🙄 Guess I’ll be trying again!
That could not be further from truth. Hang up and try again.
The regulation does not say “any carrier”.
It says “comparable transport conditions”. Which isn’t the same as “any”.
Please don’t make stuff up.
No it doesn’t but the power lies with passenger after a cancellation. The reality is a delay may not be an issue but if there is a flight on the day BA have cancelled it is not unreasonable to ask for this. IF IB are flying double daily then that is a no brainer. But if they were full and Swiss were operating then that would be entirely reasonable.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/eur/2004/261/contents
There is also guidance issued by the EU before the UK left and which is part of the retained law. That makes it clear that airlines cannot determine who you fly with simply to save them money. So insisting that Avios availability must exist or refusing a third carrier as it would be expensive would not be reasonable and BA would lose at CEDR and in court. The recent Lipton case again made clear that the regulation is heavily weighted to the passenger.
The regulation does not say “any carrier”.
It says “comparable transport conditions”. Which isn’t the same as “any”.
Please don’t make stuff up.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to make stuff up and imply it was the customer’s choice – just commenting on the OP’s desire to opt for a flight the same day as the cancelled one. More that the regs state “at the earliest opportunity”, rather than the next flight the carrier/codeshare partner has available. Lots of low-cost carriers are notoriously bad at not offering alternate carriers, leaving people stranded for days and days.
But it is the passengers choice!
I don’t blame carriers for offering a flight on their own metal, but I wouldn’t consider a next day flight acceptable unless it suited me or was the only option available.
But it is the passengers choice as detailed in Article 8
I tried again yesterday and got a different “no” 😉 This time, it was that BA’s agreement with Iberia only allows recommendation up to and including Premium Economy. What will they think of next!
I am 100% with @Paul on this. It’s the customer’s choice, not the airline.
The “law” is about “making good”, not “making good so it suits the airline”. I can imagine most airlines push back on it – it hits their bottom line. So they expect people to roll over and take it.
Few people will pay £5k for a biz ticket back, but I am sure as soon as you propose it they will find the seat for you.
Not everyone has deep pockets or CC limits. Or risk £5k/seat to get home and claim it back. But let’s not confuse that with the law.
@lhar – these rules have been around for over twenty years and neither the courts nor adjudicators apply them in the literal way suggested by some here and the NEBs don’t expect that of airlines either. There are elements of common sense and practicality to be considered. The test of reasonableness applies and re your £5k comment, that won’t sway any airline one jot!
If someone goes off and buys alternative tickets, they need to do so advisedly with due regard to the circumstances and reasonableness of alternative cost. There’s also a world of difference between on the day disruption cancellations and long notice ones.
I tried again yesterday and got a different “no” 😉 This time, it was that BA’s agreement with Iberia only allows recommendation up to and including Premium Economy. What will they think of next!
I assume that you ave fully read the regulations and were able to quote this to BA. If I were in your shoes I would again call and insist on IB on the same day and again refer them to UK261 regulations and ask the matter to be escalated. I was repeatedly told the same thing for flights to Bali via HKG among many other lies. In the end I simply let the clock run down and around 8 weeks before departure was rerouted on Qatar In F to DOH and onward in J. I had an F ticket LHR HKG cash/avios but how you pay is not relevant.
BA do not have a leg to stand on here and UK 261 could not be clearer. Moreover the EU issued guidance on how the regulation should be interpreted and that can be found here.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:52016XC0615%2801%29&from=EN
You need to read all of the guidance however section 4.2 is the relevant section. BA must provide you with a triple choice. If they do so then you must choose one and you only get it once.
Take note of every conversation you have with BA. Be clear on what the options are ie IB or other flight numbers on the day/date of original booking and time of those flights. If they are not offered ask them to confirm why not and why they are not complying with the need to provide a triple choice to you Make them say this as all call are recored and retained so can be called upon by CEDR. Request escalation and then how to complain formally in writing. If all else fails then email the
BA are hoping that the vast majority will accept what they offer.
If none of that helps then email Sean Doyle. He won’t see it but executive customer relations will respond and probably bring about a better resolution for you. Good luck
Thanks for the links! I know the regulations and did quote them.
But ultimately, if the agent doesn’t have the ability/authority to make the change on the phone, they’re not going to do it. They listened, but said they aren’t able to book those flights.
On their advice, I’ve submitted a generic complaint to BA customer relations pointing to the regulations and being clear about the flights I wish to take.
It’ll be interesting to see how long they take and how they respond.
@timrogers – the standard answer from customer relations is that they don’t deal with pre-travel issues which is correct.
If you want to escalate this – and you should – you will need to write to the legal team and or Sean Doyle’s office. You say you know the regulations, but in case it helps and to save copying them, I just put all the ones that apply on the Virgin Shanghai cancellation thread close to this one. I’m surprised that BA is being so difficult in your case, but some staff are appallingly trained to the extent of not really being up to the job, but also it’s a bit fiddly and technical doing these reroutings, and they get in trouble for not doing it right, so many of them can’t be a*sed. Easier to say no.
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