Help me plan my US trip please [was Hilton or Marriott – best for US stays?]
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It’s doable but hard driving. You haven’t mentioned time of year as far as I can see. Be aware that your route from LV to GC can have serious weather events. I had temps varying from 70F, to -9F with 6 inches of snow and then 85F in the space of 48 hours as I drove from Joshua Tree in CA to Flagstaff to Sedona last year. Even in Sept you can get 2 ft of snow overnight at Yosemite, so you need to be flexible.
When you say early morning, what do you mean? I’d be on the road from LV no later than 6.30, earlier if possible, so you’re going to almost certainly miss breakfast that day so plan in time for a stop on the way.
Btw if you don’t know about the America the Beautiful Pass it’s the best $80 you’ll ever spend. It gets a car and up to 4 occupants 12 months of access to all the national parks, national monuments and US fire service lands (not state parks though)
I’d just do Grand Canyon Village area if it were me, and skip Horseshoe Bend; just spend some more time outdoors and return to Vegas the next day. A straight bit of Canyon and a bendy bit really aren’t that dissimilar 😀 . The drive through the Navajo Nation and Kaibab reservations is long (4.5 hrs is optimistic – these are not freeways) and not at all interesting after the first 15 minutes unless you are an aficondo of bead and trinket stalls (and they really did give the Indians the rubbishest land on their reservations) while detours can be huge, so one road closure (and they can happen in that area) will add hours to your journey. The alternative route back via the south rim is pretty much 7 hrs of driving.
Fun fact – a hilariously huge proportion of National Park visitors in America never go more than 200 yards from their cars. Don’t make their mistake 😀
I’m intrigued as to what the nightly rate is for these mid/lower range hotels where the consensus appears to be that the included breakfast isn’t much cop.
While I appreciate it’s not for everyone, one can stay in a suite at The Peninsula in Beijing with a very superior breakfast for £220/night inclusive of tax and many five star hotels are available at half of that price. One can also eat like a king, travel by limo/taxi/train for very little, visit extraordinary historic sites or landscapes and none of the tipping nightmare.
The absolute cost and more particularly the cost/value in the US seems incredibly unattractive.
At risk of getting the thread back on track.
That’s why by and large we stay in B&Bs and small inns in the US now. A lot of them are bookable through OTAs so have a route to rewards. You just don’t get some smarmy checkin agent pretending to value your status and offering you an ‘upgrade’ to an identical looking room with a ‘club’ breakfast of reheated food in a beige room full of miserable business travellers.
Bonus of B&Bs is you get to meet other travellers who have an interest in being in the place where they are staying. Of course ‘family style’ breakfasts are not for everyone, but chats over breakfast in the US have been some highlights of my travel there.
I wouldn’t do one day in Key West, it’s either too little or too much depending on how you see the place.
I wouldn’t drive to San Diego for a day either, yet I did for a Baseball game, but that was from Anaheim so easier than LA Proper. I would however try to fit San Diego in if possible. It’s a good city, great climate and the smaller places up the coast are very nice too, La Jolla in particular.
Horseshoe Bend is a spectacular sight. But it’s hard to deny @SS point about straight and bendy bits of the Canyon.
@davefl’s point about weather is very important.@davefl I should have mentioned the time of the year. Silly me. We are doing the trip in March/April next year. Our visit to Grand Canyons will be around mid-March. I hear Northern Rim is closed at that time of the year but the Southern Rim is open 365 days. And yes, we plan to hit the road by 6 am on that day to skip the traffic and arrive early at GC. Thanks for your suggestion about the America the Beautiful Pass. I will look into it. Cheers.
@The Savage Squirrel I honestly would have skipped the Horseshoe Bend myself. But Tigress wants a picture for her Instagram at the Horseshoe Bend. Hope better sense will prevail and I can talk her out of it. We will check the road and weather conditions on that day and make an informed decision. But thanks for letting me know about the road closures. Hopefully, given the amount of time we have on hand, we will be able to immerse ourselves at the National Parks we are visiting in the US.
@Masaccio We are also a fan of B&Bs and Guesthouses, and love talking to fellow travellers over breakfast. We have done it many times while travelling in Europe and Africa. Good to know there are good options in the US too. I will look into booking some for our trip then, because resort fee can be killer at times.
@dougzz99 Thanks. Unfortunately, SD seems like a push this time but there’s something for the next time. 🙂Sounds like a great trip @Tiger, just one comment, this part of the itinerary is a bit of south/north boomerang, not sure Chicago is worth it (other may have different opinions!)
New Orleans > Chicago > Miami
@Tiger You need to check the national park website for each individual park to see which roads are open pretty much daily leading up to your visit. Much of the park system doesn’t open fully until late may/early june in places, for example Tioga Road in Yosemite has opened as late as mid june, Rocky Mountain clears well over 70Ft of snow before the main pass is open and any time in may they can get a few more feet just as they’re removing it.
GC try and keep the main road open to the south rim as you’ve heard but it can close for periods. Even if the road is open things can be dodgy on the rim trails. I was there last year, got the train up and then shuttle bus, and hiked back but it was very slippery in places and some trails were closed. (this was March)
The advantage is that there will be fewer people around, shuttles wont be as crammed, but you’ll still need to book accomodation in the parks a year in advance if you intend to stay in them.
@SteveJ I’m speechless. Chicago is the greatest city in the US… I’ll brook no arguments. 🙂 I would say that there is more there to see and do than any other city I’ve ever been to. Yes it has its issues but it’s pretty much back to normal post pandemic and it doesn’t have any of the issues of NY, LA, SF…. as long as you keep to the city and stay out of the suburbs which as a tourist you’re not likely to go to.@davefl, I know I know! Just that Chi town in March April will be brrrr-tastic, won’t get much enjoyment from the lakeside and lake views.
You’d be surprised. I was there in June and speaking to a lot of the locals I know they’re saying that the frigid winters are a thing of the past.
Temps this year were around 0-5C, so much the same as at home
To each their own, I thought it’d be a controversial thought hence my initial caveat! For me a windy 0-5° sandwiched between the positively balmy New Orleans and Miami wouldn’t work.
@SteveJ Thanks.
I know it’s a bit of a detour with Chicago. The only reason I added it to the itinerary is because I always wanted to go there but never could on my previous trips. So this extended trip is my best chance to visit Chicago. I might or might not visit it again. And I totally get your point about sandwiching Chicago between New Orleans and Miami sun. But that was the only way I could fit it in unfortunately.
@davefl Thanks, I will check the GC website closer to our visit date.
Could you elaborate on the train part please. I was only aware of the shuttle operated by the NP Arizona on Red, Blue & Orange routes. Never heard of the train. Was it from the GC village that you took the train?
Also, I am actually in the middle of searching for bookings in the GC NP area. Are the hotels in Flagstaff any better than the ones in GC village? I understand deciding to base myself at Flagstaff for the night might have its disadvantage as it is a considerable distance from the South Kaibab Trailhead. Any favourite recommendations are welcome.
Thanks for all the helpful responses thus far.I love chewing up the miles on a US road trip as much as the next person, but you aren’t visiting the area for the hotel…Flagstaff is giving yourself a long drive potentially before sunrise or after sunset at the canyon. As you may be discovering, hotels in GC village charge handsomely for the convenience even though so few rooms have a rim view. I recommend you have a look at Tusayan. You won’t find wonderful hotels but you will find more choice at slightly lower prices, and only 15 minutes from the village.
The GC railway is an expensive attraction that goes from Williams to the south rim every day, costs several hundred dollars depending which carriage you select to sit in. Takes around 3 hours each way. It’s coupled with a historic hotel (dated and worn) and it was -19C the night I was there, no heating in he room and went flying on the ice and hurt my back as I was boarding the train. Not a thing for the points rich, crash poor🙂
Actually I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone unless you’re obsessed with vintage railways
Both flagstaff and Williams have a number of HIX and Hampton properties but there is nothing near the rim that isn’t going to cost you real money
If you search, there are a number of shuttle companies that will take you from either town, drop you at the trailhead of your choice and pick you up and return you to your hotel. I’d suggest looking into that to save you road bashing yourself, possibly struggling to park etc. Let someone who knows the road take the strain for 6 hours
@zio Thanks for suggesting Tusayan. I had a look at Tusayan properties and have set my eyes on a HI which is charging 60k points per night or $320 cash. I am inclining towards booking it by transferring Virgin points over to IHG.
Not a thing for the points rich, cash poor🙂
@davefl haha, thanks for mentioning that. Made the quickest decision of my life in skipping the train.Reading some of the comments above, I have another question which I have listed below in 2 scenarios:
Scenario 1:
Is it advisable to start early from Vegas (leave around 5:30-6 am) and go straight to the trails and then retire in the evening at your hotel and move on the next day?Scenario 2:
Or should I plan to stay the night before the hikes at Tusayan and then start early next day and do the hikes. We might require another night at the property in this scenario because I am sure I will lose the will to drive after a strenuous hike.Back to the original question, I would say that it’s incredibly hard to get a breakfast that Europeans would recognise as good quality anywhere in the USA. There are many reasons to visit the USA, but food is emphatically not one of them. If a good breakfast is a deal-breaker, your deal just fell apart.
The US economy is, in part, incredibly productive because so many things are standardised and mass produced in huge factories. You can expect your pancakes to be made from the dry-mix output of a factory in Ohio, your eggs to have been pasteurised and powdered in Oklahoma, and your hash browns to have been pre-cooked in Idaho. Nothing will be locally made, and everything will be ultra-processed. Even your restaurant experience will be productionised: you will pre-book a narrow slot and will swiftly have to vacate your table for the next guests.
For quality, your best bet is to look for a place away from your hotel that appeals to the adventure sports set. Look for a car park full of beat-up pick-ups with snowmobiles/mountain bikes/surfboards/paragliders chucked in the back. Those guys care about their bodies and tend to seek the places that serve simple unprocessed food from local producers. As a bonus, it’ll probably be a fraction of the price of your hotel breakfast. The table might be held together with duct tape, but I’ve had some amazing, truly memorable food in those kind of places.
@zio Thanks for suggesting Tusayan. I had a look at Tusayan properties and have set my eyes on a HI which is charging 60k points per night or $320 cash. I am inclining towards booking it by transferring Virgin points over to IHG.
Not a thing for the points rich, cash poor🙂
@davefl haha, thanks for mentioning that. Made the quickest decision of my life in skipping the train.Reading some of the comments above, I have another question which I have listed below in 2 scenarios:
Scenario 1:
Is it advisable to start early from Vegas (leave around 5:30-6 am) and go straight to the trails and then retire in the evening at your hotel and move on the next day?Scenario 2:
Or should I plan to stay the night before the hikes at Tusayan and then start early next day and do the hikes. We might require another night at the property in this scenario because I am sure I will lose the will to drive after a strenuous hike.I would go for option 2. Parking lots can be busy for 11am when you’d be arriving, and you don’t want to be tired after 4.5 hours of driving and lose concentration/footing on a hike. Plan for the 2 nights to really enjoy it if it’s going to be a one time visit.
Absolutely option 2. Have relaxed breakfast in Vegas, maybe photo stop at the Hoover dam, drive a little of the rim road, find a sunset viewpoint… or go for it – you could just hammer it to horseshoe bend and come back via the NP east entrance for sunset. Might be pushing 8 hours in the saddle though.
I know you are going in spring but in the summer option 1 would be positively bonkers.@jj Thanks for a great insight on where to find proper breakfast. I will keep an eye on such car parks. American ways are definitely alien for us here in the Blighty!
@davefl & @zio I can add another night in the GC village but that would come at the cost of reducing 1 out of 2 nights I had planned in Vegas. Good thing is I have already made booking at the GC village but not in Vegas. So I can just add another night at the same property or book another property near the Hoover dam or Horseshoe Bend on our way back to Vegas. As a reminder I am points rich and cash poor, so happy to leave Vegas for GC as soon as I can. But do you guys reckon 1 night is enough in Vegas?Haha, you’re asking the wrong person. I have no intention of spending even one more night in Vegas. For me there is America the Beautiful and there is Las Vegas. YMMV, of course.
Regarding Horseshoe Bend I probably wouldn’t bother going all the way to Page, AZ only for that (as mentioned it’s just another section of GC), but it’s also the home of Antelope Canyon, which I would really recommend visiting if you can! Horseshoe Bend is very close by and can be visited in 30 mins before/after.
Vegas to Page is ~4hrs through Utah which is easily done in 1 day if you don’t make too many stops or detours. You can then stay overnight in Page for Horseshoe Bend and Antelopes Canyon, and then go to GC village from there in 2hrs the next day.
@Tiger. We stayed 2 nights in Best Western in Tusayan. Perfectly adequate. Stop for shuttle bus to GC just outside the door. Show the Am. beautiful pass and it’s free transport to GC. We set off early to arrive by 0800 . Good walking and great views. Second day, helicopter trip over canyon. Expensive but a highlight. We travelled mid April about 5 years ago. . I note that now a lot of the parks require you to book a time slot for entry.we are doing a road trip next year and Rocky Mountain NP, Arches, Canyonlands all require booking a time slot for entry. It’s a pain as takes the spontaneity out of just driving up.
Antelope Canyon certainly is wonderful (though an hour’s tour will be at least $50pp, so it may not fit the brief).
Page/Horseshoe Bend is undeniably a long detour but Tigress has expressed a desire to visit. It is a stunning view which I found somehow easier to take in than a “straight bit of canyon”, to use The Savage Squirrel’s memorable phrase.
Anyway, we agree that it is a possible if not entirely recommended route.
I’m jealous of the 50 days @Tiger has to plan, but the US is so big and varied that some things will inevitably have to remain on the bucket list.@jj Thanks for a great insight on where to find proper breakfast. I will keep an eye on such car parks. American ways are definitely alien for us here in the Blighty!
@davefl & @zio I can add another night in the GC village but that would come at the cost of reducing 1 out of 2 nights I had planned in Vegas. Good thing is I have already made booking at the GC village but not in Vegas. So I can just add another night at the same property or book another property near the Hoover dam or Horseshoe Bend on our way back to Vegas. As a reminder I am points rich and cash poor, so happy to leave Vegas for GC as soon as I can. But do you guys reckon 1 night is enough in Vegas?No. But then I’m closer to the opposite end of the spectrum to zio in my feelings about Vegas and have visited multiple times. Liking the beatyy of their National Parks and liking the general craziness of Vegas are not at all mutually exclusive. Have you been there before? I’d say that 2 nights is the absolute barest minimum and still tutterly inadequate at that. Even assuming you’re a non-gambler and non-drinker there are weeks worth of stuff to do; and if you’re trading 50% of your Vegas stay for a night sitting in the Holiday Inn at Tusayan then that seems not really comparable. Loads of ways to stay in Vegas on points if you are points rich, and options available at all price points for other things (downtown is your friend if looking to avoid Strip prices and I actually really like the older, and yes, grittier nature of it. To give a good food example of exactly that, Pizza Rock blows the socks off every pizza joint on the strip).
Still, thinking that we’re having this discussion about whether to spend one or two nights, or even day trips, to major cities suggests that your trip itinerary needs trimming – America is so vast that you just need to accept you can’t see anything but the tiniest fraction in a single visit. I’m wondering if the rest of your schedule is so tight too? The ratio of time in freeway, desert road, airport terminal and plane seat vs good stuff needs to be kept sensible, and that generally means spending more time in fewer places.
Lots of things to address above. Las Vegas exists to part a man (or woman or non binary person) from their money. No other reason. Lots of people like to gamble, see the shows, gorge on the (previously cheap but no longer) buffet breakfasts and a hundred more things. I’ve enjoyed a day or two there but apart from walking the strip there’s nothing free or cheap apart from maybe a visit to the Pinball Hall of Fame. At any time of year it’s crowded, hot, traffic is a nightmare. Even the hotels have started charging for parking now. So entirely up to you but if you’re skint I’d spend one night there, walk the strip, maybe get a cab or bus to Freemont street and see the utterly bonkers lightshow canopy and blow $20 on the penny or nickel slots and then move on.
The 4.5 hour drive from LV to GCV takes in some really interesting towns on part of historic route 66 and Arizona has the best of 66 in my opinion. The Kingman, Seligman, Ash Fork and Williams section is just wonderful. You’re missing out if you don’t at least visit the Kingman Powerhouse and spend an hour or so in Seligman. https://eu.azcentral.com/story/travel/arizona/road-trips/2022/07/22/historic-route-66-angel-delgadillo/10103132002/
Jill’s point about timed entry is true, but generally applies only from the beginning of Memorial Day weeekend, so you should be ok but check the NP sites wherever you’re heading as these requirements change from year to year. You generally have to pay $1 via recreation.gov for your “free timed entry slot”. Some of the timed entry stuff was brought in during/post covid to reduce the number of people on the park shuttles and some just to reduce impact of too many visitors. So of it went away, but other parks increased it. It’s such a hard balance for the park service as certain parks get over 15 million visitors a year. https://irma.nps.gov/Stats/SSRSReports/National%20Reports/Annual%20Park%20Ranking%20Report%20(1979%20-%20Last%20Calendar%20Year)
Antelope Canyon – It’s stunning but I did it years before the Instagram generation discovered it and it’s now very hard to get tickets. A visit there is also extremely weather sensitive as a storm 20 miles away can produce flash floods that would kill anyone inside the canyon if it hit.
I would disagree with Omicron, it’s 5 hours from LV to Page and 2.5 to GCV, so wouldn’t go that way unelss you really want to explore the back roads.
Savage Squirrel makes a realy strong point. Planning a US trip is like nothing else you’ll ever do. I’ve done 55 days so far in the last year, and I have another 10 in FL in Dec where I can barely do 50% of what I want in that 10 days. I’ve visted 68 states (all 50 plus 18 into my second go around), 43 out of the 63 national parks. Driven 5200 miles there so far this year across 9 states. One visit was just 2000 miles in CA and barely scratched the surface, and last year 1200 miles for just a quick loop around Colorado.
Nothing wrong with aiming for the moon, scaling the plan up and then back… and then making a second list of all the things you really really wanted to do but couldn’t fit in this time.
@davefl once you have completed your second tour of US states, you should look at Argentina. Having done all these US parks years ago when they weren’t crowded, we later discovered Argentina which has natural wonders that, for my money, beat most US ones and while it may not have a Vegas, it has historic towns an cities, quiet roads, no entry tickets, parking to pay or booking required, cheap petrol like US as well as fine food, wines and beer. Lodging is cheap, but not a lot of chain/points opportunities. You also have such variety from the glaciers of the south, the wild nature of the east at Valdés peninsula, the Lake District in the foothills of the Andes, desert in the NW to the tropical NE towards Iguazú and lots in between. And it’s all at a fraction of the price of the US.
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