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Stayed at the Kimpton Fitzroy this week and at checkout we were a bit surprised to be informed that ‘a discretionary service charge of 5% applies to your nightly room rate’. Not stayed here for about 9 months but I don’t recall this being added previously, anyone know if this is something that’s relatively new? I don’t necessarily object to it provided service has been good (which it was) but I can’t find anything in the app. informing/warning customers at time of booking that this is now in place.
It’s discretionary, don’t pay it.
I don’t ever recall seeing this at the Fitzroy. I wouldn’t pay it on principle (in the UK all charges have to be stated at time of booking) and my personal dislike of such junk* charges.
*What happened to running a business providing goods and services at a price that returns your desired gross and paying your costs from that? If they don’t charge VAT on it, it may well be a ruse to get round HMRC.
Just checked out from IC Park Lane, also the same 5% discretionary charge applied.
That’s been around for a while at the ICPL, there’s a thread I started a while back naming various hotels which have started charging service and “resort” fees in the past couple of years!
It’s scandalous. Wouldn’t pay on principle. Did you ask where the money went? And how it’s divided up?
BTW, I’m thinking about adding a 10% discretionary charge to my rental properties. I’m confident that’ll get through 🤣
No, didn’t ask how divided up/where it went but, whilst we like the hotel & the convenient location, they’ve probably lost any future custom from us. There were quite a few Americans staying there & my daughter noticed a table reserved for one of the cruise ship companies & I’m wondering if this is what’s prompted it because they know US customers are used to paying resort fees which, effectively, is what it is.
A discretionary service (which since October has, by law, to be passed on to staff) isn’t the same as a resort fee which purports to offer some specific benefit(s) and Americans are used to paying both.
If people are balking at paying this charge, I hope they are at least tipping housekeeping and any other relevant staff.
What’s funny is that I would think most people probably tip their hairdresser and pay the 12.5%+ discretionary added to restaurant bills, perhaps because they would be embarrassed to be seen to be mean, but when asked to pay a much smaller percentage to a range of ‘hidden’ staff they refuse ‘on principle’. It doesn’t really add up.
A discretionary service (which since October has, by law, to be passed on to staff) isn’t the same as a resort fee which purports to offer some specific benefit(s) and Americans are used to paying both.
If people are balking at paying this charge, I hope they are at least tipping housekeeping and any other relevant staff.
What’s funny is that I would think most people probably tip their hairdresser and pay the 12.5%+ discretionary added to restaurant bills, perhaps
because they would be embarrassed to be seen to be mean, but when asked to pay a much smaller percentage to a range of ‘hidden’ staff they refuse ‘on principle’. It doesn’t really add up.
We do normally happily tip housekeeping, restaurant staff etc if service is satisfactory. We don’t if it isn’t & last week I actually asked (with no embarrassment whatsoever) for the 12.5% discretionary to be removed from a restaurant bill in central London because the service was appalling. Maybe it isn’t the same as a resort fee, partly because resort fees are (as far as I have encountered them) notified in advance and in the UK additional charges that may be payable should also be notified at booking so that customers (and that is what we are despite the term ‘guests’ often being used) are aware.
Discretionary charges should be opt in, not out. The reason they get added automatically to restaurants is cos theyre more likely to get it than when it was opt in.
Why should it be upto the customer to subsidise staffing costs? Either include it in the price thats displayed on the menu or dont charge it.
Discretionary charges should be opt in, not out. The reason they get added automatically to restaurants is cos theyre more likely to get it than when it was opt in.
Why should it be upto the customer to subsidise staffing costs? Either include it in the price thats displayed on the menu or dont charge it.
Paying tips/service charges in a country like the UK with a strong minimum (living) wage is not a way of subsidising staff costs, it’s a ridiculous argument, albeit the standard argument of the mean. If you are in the very privileged position of eating in an expensive restaurant or staying in an expensive hotel, offering some small token of recognition to low paid staff is the very least one can do.
Discretionary charges should be opt in, not out. The reason they get added automatically to restaurants is cos theyre more likely to get it than when it was opt in.
Why should it be upto the customer to subsidise staffing costs? Either include it in the price thats displayed on the menu or dont charge it.
Paying tips/service charges in a country like the UK with a strong minimum (living) wage is not a way of subsidising staff costs, it’s a ridiculous argument, albeit the standard argument of the mean. If you are in the very privileged position of eating in an expensive restaurant or staying in an expensive hotel, offering some small token of recognition to low paid staff is the very least one can do.
Where else do you tip, @JDB? Nurses? Refuse collection? Your local corner shop? Focus should be on increasing pay, not artificially keeping it low through the excuse of tips (having worked at senior levels in the industry it’s not a ridiculous argument of the mean). Are you pro the US approach?
JDB’s is a ridiculous argument. Especially as the majority of restaurants I eat at are not high end, and yet will pay their staff the same as the higher-end restaurant.
It definitely depends on your definition of ‘very privileged’, and assuming the waiters are paid minimum wage full-time, I earn under double what the wait staff do.
If they earn enough and tips not subsidising wages, then it should be up to me based on quality of service/food provided (and opt in is not ‘up to me’).@Swiss Jim – yes, I do tip the refuse collectors and postman at Christmas. I also make a good contribution to the staff Christmas collections for clubs/golf clubs. Nurses aren’t allowed to accept tips, so on occasions when children have had great care we have instead written to the hospital management and made a donation to the hospital charity.
Where I control or have influence over wages/salaries, I pay generously not only because it’s the right thing to do but because it has the mutual benefit of recruiting better, more engaged staff and excellent staff retention.
Hospitality is a very precarious business, not only for hotels, but particularly for restaurants and their employees. In central London one needs to pay a fair bit more than minimum wage to attract staff even at the housekeeping level. It’s not a well paid job and is rarely salaried so it’s a worldwide phenomenon that people in hospitality, taxis, hairdressing etc. rely heavily on tips to make ends meet.
You referred in one post to being a rentier while in a previous post to a 5% discretionary service charge (fully distributed to staff) as being “scandalous” and one you wouldn’t pay “on principle”. That sits very uncomfortably with me. Maybe you aren’t mean, but it sounds mean and unmeasured, and perhaps playing to the crowd.
I don’t support the US system. It’s unfortunate that a system that originated partly from some state wage laws that allowed staff to be paid a lower wage if they were eligible for tips, now largely gone has continued. The absolutely level of tips in the US and the pressure to pay such tips even in situations where there has been no service (eg the purchase of a gift card) has made the system a bit ridiculous. Local people get away with paying less than foreigners who often end up paying tips on the tax and expensive wines.
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