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Quick sense check please. EasyJet have just cancelled our outbound and inbound LGW to VCE. The flights offered/suggested as a day earlier on the outbound and a day later on the inbound.
We are within 14 days of departure of the original outbound, but about 16 days for the inbound.
My questions are:
– if we agree to their revised dates, will they pay reasonable costs and expenses for the two extra nights?
– I think either way we can claim some compensation by law, but perhaps just re the outbound?
– I assume I will have no luck getting a re-route on BA/getting EasyJet to (easily) compensate me if I book those flights myself.I can see that on our outbound date I could select a much later flight, which I might do (although arriving late with kids is not my preferred option ), but inbound is sold out, so we will have to accept the inbound a day later (the day before is N/A too). So there would definitely be some extra cost in doing this (plus an extra day of annual leave potentially).
Thank you in advance.
Easyjet agents servicing the UK are usually very well trained so why not call them?
If they say anything unexpected that you can’t work with, post it here?
Thank you Lady London – will try that now and will report back any further questions if needed.
Have a read of this
https://www.easyjet.com/en/help/boarding-and-flying/delays-and-cancellations
Thanks for that – was very useful to read whilst on the call to EasyJet.
Short story:
– after initially saying no, they would not compensate for 2 x nights reasonable 3 star hotel costs, they said they “might” but no guarantee;
– they said they have offered a re-timed flight and if that is not acceptable I get £ back or voucher;
– the revised flights are exactly 24hours + or – the original departure, so they say this is “within 24 hours” so they will not bear costs of an alternative airline/means of transport.
– they tried to say it was a schedule change, but the email clearly says cancelled and it seems they have just trimmed the LGW VCE timetable.Next step they say is to accept the re timed flight, or get a refund. Or make a general complaint.
What are people’s thoughts on whether a flight which is 24 hours before the original one is “within” 24 hours? It does not say 24 hours or less – am I clutching at straws?
Of course original flights were cheap and a new BA flight for 4 pax is much more expensive. We still want to go on the weekend break, but I want to know that I stand a vague chance of having the additional costs covered if I fork out. We do also have travel insurance, so will check these terms too.
“What are people’s thoughts on whether a flight which is 24 hours before the original one is “within” 24 hours? It does not say 24 hours or less – am I clutching at straws?”
Yes I think you are straw clutching.
Most reasonable people would say that a flight that’s exactly 24 hours before/ after the original is within 24 hours of the original.
Thank you – yes, thought it was a long shot.
Do we think that they would cover a reasonable hotel for the extra nights based on others experience? The guidance on their website talks about a delay on the return, rather than an extra night on the way out but presumably the same principles apply as we are away from home?
And just to be clear, if I accept the new flights offered, which get me there 24 hours earlier than expected and home 24 hours later than expected (assuming things are on time), there is a still a general right to compensation under EC261 for the outbound as this was cancelled within 14 days of departure?
Presumably by departure they mean for the actual flights individually rather than the itinerary?
I really appreciate your help with this, as despite many years of flying I have not been in this situation before (other than all the Covid cancellations – whcih were easier to resolve). And as I am flying with my three kids on my own, am slightly more inflexible than if I was flying solo and could wfh in Italy etc.
Sorry to hear this. They way to look at it is:
– Your flights were cancelled, period. I say this because the options given to you are just that, options, until you accept them or not.As said a million times here, UK261 is VERY CLEAR to what your options are:
– A voucher or refund
– A new flight at a time of YOUR convenienceADITTIONALY, Easyjet, by virtue of the cancelation has A DUTY OF CARE towards you. That means they have TO PAY for your accommodation and food.
What I see Easyjet is doing is saying that by giving you a flight a day before and a day after they are sort of taking you there at a similar time. Don’t be fooled about that. On the return flight particularly, Easyjet HAS to pay for the extra hotel night (this is very clear on UK261 which states that if the flight offered is the next day a hotel has to be paid).
I think you need to be very clear to Easyjet that you know your UK261 rights. They cancelled the flight and the options are not convenient to you. There are flights on the days you originally had, their cost is £X. If Easyjet does not book you on those flights you will pay £X and then claim that back from them (plus compensation for the cancelation). Have all that in writing and try to show you have done your best to then take EasyJet to court. DO NOT accept the new flights or a refund. That will then mean you are happy with that.
If you do not want to pay for the BA flights and risk Easyjet not paying (or the hassle of the flight). You can always take the new flights. Inform Easyjet they need to pay for hotels, they may not want to. Keep it reasonable and then claim that plus compenstation for the cancellation.
Whatever you do it seems you need to fight them as they are not very helpful.
FYI, this is the UK261 wording:
Cancellation
1.
In case of cancellation of a flight, the passengers concerned shall:
(a)be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 8; and
(b)be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 9(1)(a) and 9(2), as well as, in event of re-routing when the reasonably expected time of departure of the new flight is at least the day after the departure as it was planned for the cancelled flight, the assistance specified in Article 9(1)(b) and 9(1)(c); and
(c)have the right to compensation by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 7, unless:
(i)they are informed of the cancellation at least two weeks before the scheduled time of departure; or
(ii)they are informed of the cancellation between two weeks and seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than two hours before the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than four hours after the scheduled time of arrival; or
(iii)they are informed of the cancellation less than seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than one hour before the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than two hours after the scheduled time of arrival.
2.
When passengers are informed of the cancellation, an explanation shall be given concerning possible alternative transport.Article 8 reads:
1.
Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between:
(a)- reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger’s original travel plan, together with, when relevant,- a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity;
(b)re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity; or
(c)re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at a later date at the passenger’s convenience, subject to availability of seats.And Article 9:
1.
Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered free of charge:
(a)meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time;
(b)hotel accommodation in cases
where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary, orwhere a stay additional to that intended by the passenger becomes necessary;
(c)transport between the airport and place of accommodation (hotel or other).
2.
In addition, passengers shall be offered free of charge two telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails.
3.
In applying this Article, the operating air carrier shall pay particular attention to the needs of persons with reduced mobility and any persons accompanying them, as well as to the needs of unaccompanied children.@yonasi – the wording of EC261 is 20 years old. What matters today is how it is applied in practice by airlines, at arbitration and in the courts and there have now been over 70 CJEU judgments that effectively rewrite the Articles you have cited. So, unfortunately it isn’t as simple as the way you portray it and the at the passenger’s convenience also doesn’t mean you are free to pick precisely the rerouting flight you want. Nobody can be sure in advance what an airline will cover without challenge and/or what any subsequent adjudication or court will order – there are a number of tests as well as subjective issues to be considered. Anybody going off piste and making their own arrangements needs to do so advisedly.
By the way @yonasi, I don’t say any of the above as a criticism, but there seems to be a growing perception on HfP that airlines are some sort of ATM and that the rules give them Carte Blanche to spend the airline’s money but the reality is different and each specific case is different.
Thanks both. I have now read through EC261, and I just have one final query – on the outbound, the flight being offered is the day before (ie, EasyJet have offered me a new flight which departs from the U.K. more than 2 hours before the original time). Most of what I have read re reasonable costs for additional nights in a hotel is phrased in terms of flying back later than planned ( although I did see a judgment where moving the time of departure to an earlier time meant that the rights under EC261 kicked in). It seems that if I take the earlier flight, there is still a chance EasyJet might cover the cost of a cheap hotel for us for one night, which we would not have had to pay for but for the cancellation – but please shout if you disagree.
Thanks both. I have now read through EC261, and I just have one final query – on the outbound, the flight being offered is the day before (ie, EasyJet have offered me a new flight which departs from the U.K. more than 2 hours before the original time). Most of what I have read re reasonable costs for additional nights in a hotel is phrased in terms of flying back later than planned ( although I did see a judgment where moving the time of departure to an earlier time meant that the rights under EC261 kicked in). It seems that if I take the earlier flight, there is still a chance EasyJet might cover the cost of a cheap hotel for us for one night, which we would not have had to pay for but for the cancellation – but please shout if you disagree.
In principle, EasyJet should cover your additional costs at the start of your stay, but nobody can give you any categorical assurance on this. You will need to provide reasoning to justify incurring the expense.
Re the early departure, that’s a CJEU decision from December 2021, so post Brexit; that means it isn’t binding on a UK court but would likely be considered reasonably compelling.
Thanks everyone for the input. Will make a plan and then see what we can recover, if anything.
@yonasi – the wording of EC261 is 20 years old. What matters today is how it is applied in practice by airlines, at arbitration and in the courts and there have now been over 70 CJEU judgments that effectively rewrite the Articles you have cited. So, unfortunately it isn’t as simple as the way you portray it and the at the passenger’s convenience also doesn’t mean you are free to pick precisely the rerouting flight you want. Nobody can be sure in advance what an airline will cover without challenge and/or what any subsequent adjudication or court will order – there are a number of tests as well as subjective issues to be considered. Anybody going off piste and making their own arrangements needs to do so advisedly.
By the way @yonasi, I don’t say any of the above as a criticism, but there seems to be a growing perception on HfP that airlines are some sort of ATM and that the rules give them Carte Blanche to spend the airline’s money but the reality is different and each specific case is different.
Please provide me the 70 cases rewording the articles I quoted.
Most cases I know discuss the extent of “exceptional circumstances” and we are well aware that the “convenience” factor has been problematic too when people wanted to use a cancellation to rebook a flight for another completely different date.
If anything, the law (UK261 in this case) exists exactly for the case the OP is having where a planned holiday is disrupted by a change of schedule from the airline.
In this case the OP will clearly receive:
– compensation for the outbound flight he/she can use to pay for a night of hotel
– duty of care on the return as the flight proposed is the day after originally plannedBut I do not see why asking to fly on the day originally booked is beyond reasonable given the short notice by the airline.
None of these options is milking Easyjet. Most passengers on their original flight will simply take another date unaware these are their rights.
You can find all the relevant CJEU cases on Curia.europa.eu and in fact not many of them relate to ‘extraordinary circumstances’ because those criteria have been set and it is now generally for domestic courts to apply the decisions. The CAP2155 guidelines on rerouting published by the CAA are also quite helpful. My point was simply that parroting the articles doesn’t really get anyone anywhere and your annotations are too simplistic and just not how the rules are actually applied. The CAA takes 20 pages to explain its interpretation because it is very complex. Your view of what is reasonable also isn’t necessarily what an adjudicator or judge would think and you need to examine all the facts of each specific case and as discussed in another thread today, the CJEU test for extra costs incurred by a passenger either for self rerouting or ‘right to care’ expenses are not simply governed by reasonableness, it’s actually a three limb test – “necessary, appropriate and reasonable” which you will find is also cited in CAP2155.
My sister and BIL are now in a similar position. Have you managed to resolve the situation to your satisfaction, @mol27?
See my post below:
Hi all,
My sister and BIL are (in theory) flying to Venice on Friday to celebrate their 5 year anniversary (I’m babysitting the nieces for the weekend).
Easyjet just cancelled their flights, aren’t offering any viable alternatives, and are offering a refund instead. They are refusing to rebook on other flights (the man on the phone said he didn’t have the authority, and he can’t get anyone on the compensation team on the phone). They’re telling her to rebook at their own expense, and they’ll “most likely” be compensated.
They can’t afford to take that risk, pay insane prices for flights to Venice, and then not be compensated.
Has anyone got any sage words of wisdom? Does anyone know how to find the reason for the cancellation, for compensation purposes?
The flights are EZY8295 on Friday and EZY8296 on Sunday.
Sorry, I’m trying to help, while at the same time running an after school class for my year 10s, and I can’t access the information fast enough to be of any use.
All help much appreciated! Cat
@Cat – I replied to your original post in the chat! In addition to that your sister & brother in law should keep a careful note of their conversations with EasyJet and if they do go off and buy other tickets screenshot other more expensive options to show they have acted properly to mitigate the loss.
@Cat – I replied to your original post in the chat! In addition to that your sister & brother in law should keep a careful note of their conversations with EasyJet and if they do go off and buy other tickets screenshot other more expensive options to show they have acted properly to mitigate the loss.
Yes, I’ve seen now and replied to your reply!
I think the only workable solution for them is probably to accept flights for a different weekend (say in September), and then use the fact that they’re hoping for EU/UK 261 compensation to book a last-minute break away in the UK for this weekend.
If they accept new flights, that doesn’t affect their compensation entitlement, does it?
@Cat – yes, they are entitled to the compensation anyway per Article 5.1 (c) (iii) unless :-
(iii) they are informed of the cancellation less than seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than one hour before the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than two hours after the scheduled time of arrival.
@Cat – yes, they are entitled to the compensation anyway per Article 5.1 (c) (iii) unless :-
(iii) they are informed of the cancellation less than seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than one hour before the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than two hours after the scheduled time of arrival.
They’re *definitely* not doing that – the reroutes they’ve been offered involve leaving more than 24 hours earlier (a bit of a problem if you have a 4 and a 7 year old to make arrangements for, and actual jobs!), or only staying away for one night!
Thanks for this @JDB!
Sis and BIL now possibly willing to accept flights out on Saturday (one day later than booked), and Tuesday flights back (two days later than booked). Is it reasonable to expect Easyjet to pay for them to stay in the same hotel as originally booked, so that they don’t have to waster time transferring hotels on Sunday?
@Cat Yes it is reasonable as long as the cost is reasonable. I doubt easyJet will pay more than £200 per night.
There is a story in the Guardian that EasyJet have pre-emptively cancelled 1700 flights over the summer blaming air traffic control delays.
I suspect that the cancellations OP and your sister and BIL have suffered are related though blaming ATC delays in advance seems not to be extraordinary circumstances but I bet that’s how EasyJet will frame it.
Sis and BIL now possibly willing to accept flights out on Saturday (one day later than booked), and Tuesday flights back (two days later than booked). Is it reasonable to expect Easyjet to pay for them to stay in the same hotel as originally booked, so that they don’t have to waster time transferring hotels on Sunday?
It’s not guaranteed, but it is clearly entirely reasonable as well as meeting the additional necessary and appropriate tests.
I sent a very grateful reply, @AJA, but I think I’ve fallen afoul of a rule about replying too often, or similar. The original reply will probably appear tomorrow, but in the meantime, you’re awesome and I’m eternally grateful (as are my sis and BIL!).
@Cat Yes it is reasonable as long as the cost is reasonable. I doubt easyJet will pay more than £200 per night.
There is a story in the Guardian that EasyJet have pre-emptively cancelled 1700 flights over the summer blaming air traffic control delays.
I suspect that the cancellations OP and your sister and BIL have suffered are related though blaming ATC delays in advance seems not to be extraordinary circumstances but I bet that’s how EasyJet will frame it.
Thanks so very much @AJA, I’m passing all of this on to my sister!
In a holiday cancellation emergency, the HfP community is absolutely awesome. Thanks so much! This is so very useful!
@Cat No worries. Hope your sister and BIL get the flights that suit them and that EasyJet doesn’t play silly buggers and just pay out with the minimum of fuss.
Also hope you enjoy having the company of your nieces – I bet they enjoy spending time with you.
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