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I need to persuade my wife re Mongolia – looks stunning. Curious re the advantages of ITA matrix v google flights. Does it throw up more options? Happy with ex EU if the savings are substantial although I’m to be convinced as we will have the time and gives us the opportunity to tag on an extra night. Would prefer the comfort of a bit of leeway re timings. That is where the lo cost airlines from LPL or Man come into their own.
@MGOR ITA Matrix is owned by Google. It’s much more versatile and complex itineraries can be more easily constructed. The downside is that you can’t buy the actual fare through the site unless you instal the power tools extension which then links to airline websites. And even then it doesn’t always work. But it is useful for seeing the fare class you’re buying and all the rules related to the fare. And you can use it to then book vai a travel agent or over the phone by telling the agent the detail.
I’m coming up to retirement in a few months and would be interested to know others’ experience with how that affects credit cards and more specifically signing up for new ones.
I currently have BA prem, HSBC prem, virgin, amex gold plus a few others. I earn most of my points via cc spend and want to continue to do so. My concern is that whilst I currently have a very good salary, once retired I will be relying on pension drawdown and other assets. I will actually have a higher net income after tax pa.
Do th card companies allow for this less formal type of income in their sign up criteria or am I best to make sure I have all the cards I think I would want prior to retirement and then keep schtum?My concern is that whilst I currently have a very good salary, once retired I will be relying on pension drawdown and other assets. I will actually have a higher net income after tax pa.
[/qoute]Ditto
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Do th card companies allow for this less formal type of income in their sign up criteria or am I best to make sure I have all the cards I think I would want prior to retirement and then keep schtum?This! Once your income is variable, doesn’t matter what it is, they don’t give a stuff.
Get your ducks in a row before you retire. Due to redundancy I didn’t get the chance so I was screwed.
I need to persuade my wife re Mongolia – looks stunning.
Try and do it by the end of 2025. As I understand it, (and things may have changed) the visa waiver for UK passport holders (and many other countries) is temporary until the end of the year.
I’m coming up to retirement in a few months and would be interested to know others’ experience with how that affects credit cards and more specifically signing up for new ones.
I currently have BA prem, HSBC prem, virgin, amex gold plus a few others. I will actually have a higher net income after tax pa.I was retired for 8 years with everything exactly the same as when employed, final salary pension and disposable income higher. Applied for Barclaycard, no problem. Other than that no cc company asked for salary update, but Amex did cancel my prime cards plus the accounts of those I was a supplementary on. Still have no idea why; my behaviour was same with Amex as Virgin, MBNA, Bcard and remains thus.
Thus my experience is that – apart from the Amex blip – it’s Ops Normal.
Thanks both.
If you were applying for a new card would you include pension drawdown as part of your income?
I will have a db income that will be below the income requirements but when I include dc drawdown I will be substantially above the figure.Thanks both.
If you were applying for a new card would you include pension drawdown as part of your income?Someone will be along shortly who knows about such things. Personally, I’m as disinterested in financial matters as interested in miles/points, travel and gross national happiness, so wouldn’t wish to advise!
Thanks both.
If you were applying for a new card would you include pension drawdown as part of your income?
I will have a db income that will be below the income requirements but when I include dc drawdown I will be substantially above the figure.I’d absolutely include pension drawdown. And income that rolls up on investments, whether in a tax wrapper (ISA) or elsewhere, often forgotten and often significant. I retired 3 years ago, been continuing to apply for cards, and never had an issue.
When you say “income that rolls up on investments ” does that mean interest and other returns on investments that might not be withdrawn but added to the underlying asset/pot?
When you say “income that rolls up on investments ” does that mean interest and other returns on investments that might not be withdrawn but added to the underlying asset/pot?
Yes. Any income from any source that gets added to an account somewhere would be counted. It’s the same things you should consider whether they would be reported on a tax return plus include ISA income and other tax free income such as tax free lump sums that you take from a DC pension. They all count towards your gross annual income. It’s better if it’s regular rather than one offs so the only thing I tend to exclude is any premium bond or lottery winnings as that’s not guaranteed though I guess if you won the jackpot or large premium bond prizes they might be worth including.
Ok, makes sense, thank you.
Now a follow-up that is probably pushing my luck😉
Player 2 won’t have enough income even with the points you make above and will be relying on me to “subsidise”
Is it possible for them to include payments i might make into their account for the declaration of their income when applying for a card?@sprout – the key to this is simply answering all questions truthfully and being prepared to provide documentary evidence that those answers were both truthful and not misleading. This isn’t the same as ‘enhancing’ your CV – providing false information for the obtention of credit is an offence. You will need to decide yourself what information to give and I would be wary of simply taking advice from me or any other poster.
As @AJA says above, a credit provider is really interested in recurring, reliable income that not only covers them from an affordability perspective but ensure they get repaid. This largely means money that flows through your bank account. I would say that income that rolls up inside a pension or ISA is very tenuous and of course if you are using drawdown as income, there’s a risk of double counting.
@sprout – on your most recent question, a spouse/partner might be able to use income from the other but this would need to be a real, regular and non recourse arrangement, not just shuffling money around. You need to consider also that you could end up compromising your own application if it looks as though your income isn’t really yours.I wouldn’t include income that stays within a pension or ISA as that’s effectively capital growth rather than income per se. I meant count income such as interest that gets added even annually to a cash savings account or ISA income where you earn interest or dividends (I invest only in income units rather than accumulation units in a stocks and shares ISA) so the income gets credited to a cash account within my ISA either monthly, quarterly or bi-annually and I withdraw monthly a regular sum to my bank account but for income purposes it’s the total amount in the tax year I include as part of my gross income. I draw a monthly amount from my pension so that x 12 equals my pension income. I ignore the fact that my pension fund as a whole has increased by 13% in the last year.
Yes, I wouldn’t be comfortable “cycling” income to P2 and counting it twice.
Equally, I probably won’t look to include interest or gains that haven’t been withdrawn as I wouldn’t need them to meet the criteria .
I always thought it odd that the card companies don’t consider disposable income after tax and other commitments such as loans or mortgages etcAs I said previously, I will have far more disposable income in the future but with a much lower headline gross figure.
Oh well, they set the rules….Yes, credit card application processes are a very blunt instrument compared to say a mortgage application and card providers offer credit on a very broad brush basis only weeding out a few dodgy applications and those that don’t meet their lending criteria. Amex, unlike others also operates on an open account now (if you pass the most basic checks) and check later basis.
There are people with £250k + incomes who, after paying a big mortgage and school fees actually don’t have much income left but Amex will give them huge limits.
There are also people on the Sunday Times rich list because the compilers can see publicly declared assets but they can’t see the debts (via companies or trusts) which actually give them a negative net worth.
The mortgage free pensioner with lowish outgoings, without dependant children might seem a better prospect but as you say, the system doesn’t work like that.
It certainly doesn’t! I was declined a BAPP a few years ago when I put my pension as main income, but accepted when I re-applied and put tutor as my occupation, which only earns me a small amount of pocket money. I’m now below the £35k threshold, but can’t be bothered working more hours so I’ll probably try applying for the gold card when my current 2 year hiatus is up later this year.
We have kept OH’s BAPP for about 14 years now as we get very good use from the 241 and wouldn’t want to jeopardise that, but he might apply for another Platinum in a few months if the numbers work. He’s retired and supposedly now working part-time but a lot of months it actually turns into full-time! I would love to spend more time somewhere warm in the winter so I’m working on that …
We take two month long trips a year, I start by picking a region and seeing where my BAPP 241 can take me. I then use flight connections to see what flights are available and start building a wish list itinerary that region. The last few have been:
Excellent set of points … and some great ideas for future trips :thumbsup:
When you say “income that rolls up on investments ” does that mean interest and other returns on investments that might not be withdrawn but added to the underlying asset/pot?
Yes. Accumulation units reinvest money that would otherwise be added to income – but that doesn’t prevent it from being income. It’s no different to interest on savings that gets added to your savings – it’s still interest. If you have £500k say in ISAs even a 4% return is £20k..
I wouldn’t include income that stays within a pension or ISA as that’s effectively capital growth rather than income per se. I meant count income such as interest that gets added even annually to a cash savings account or ISA income where you earn interest or dividends (I invest only in income units rather than accumulation units in a stocks and shares ISA) so the income gets credited to a cash account within my ISA either monthly, quarterly or bi-annually and I withdraw monthly a regular sum to my bank account but for income purposes it’s the total amount in the tax year I include as part of my gross income. I draw a monthly amount from my pension so that x 12 equals my pension income. I ignore the fact that my pension fund as a whole has increased by 13% in the last year.
This fails to understand how accumulation units work. It’s an illusion that they don’t create income. That income is just automatically reinvested. I’d agree not to include capital growth or income that remains with a pension. However including all income from within ISA would be correct. Why would you only include taxable income – that makes no sense.
When you say “income that rolls up on investments ” does that mean interest and other returns on investments that might not be withdrawn but added to the underlying asset/pot?
Yes. Accumulation units reinvest money that would otherwise be added to income – but that doesn’t prevent it from being income. It’s no different to interest on savings that gets added to your savings – it’s still interest. If you have £500k say in ISAs even a 4% return is £20k..
Thinking of a fringe example, let’s say you’re applying for the Amex with £35k income requirement. Last year the accumulation funds in your ISA had a ‘dividend’ worth £20k, and you sell units worth £15k.
Under your logic you’d claim to meet the income threshold. Do you think Amex would accept this, or would it look like double counting (i.e. as you’ll be aware, you can’t sell only the growth part of your units, so you must have sold some of the accumulated dividend element too.)
Selling units creates a capital gain. That gain should be reduced by the income on the accumulation units (as they add to the cost of the units sold). There is no double counting.
You buy units for £100
They generate a dividend of £10 – used to buy units
You sell for 150Income = 10
Capital gain = 40 (not 50)People often double tax themselves
Don’t forget the equalisation.
I wonder if excess reportable income could count as income for Amex??
Don’t forget the equalisation.
I wonder if excess reportable income could count as income for Amex??
Wonder no more. Of course it does 🤣
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This fails to understand how accumulation units work. It’s an illusion that they don’t create income. That income is just automatically reinvested. I’d agree not to include capital growth or income that remains with a pension. However including all income from within ISA would be correct. Why would you only include taxable income – that makes no sense.I do understand how accumulation units work. They just don’t work for me as I actually withdraw the income earned. With accumulation units the income is much more opaque as it is wrapped up with the capital gain. But the real downside is that you have to sell the underlying asset to crystallise the income. Which hurts future capital growth and future income generation too. They’re OK while accumulating wealth but not so great when drawing down the income.
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