Round the World Avios ticketing update

[pappap647]

I have spoken to 3 agents now to sort and change different bits of the route…. all 3 agents have been helpful.

The one rule they all seem to know and go by is ‘the charge you th e cabin of the LONGEST single flight’, and 8 sectors total.

So I am just waiting for the taxes cost to come from ticketing, but managed to get the following for 140k avios and 2 months of travel time –

LHR-DFW (1st class) BA
DFW-HNL (Biz) AA
HNL-KIX (Osaka) Economy Longest flight by 87 miles – so charged in this category – JAL
HND-SYD (economy – hoping for biz to come free) Qantas
SYD-SIN (biz) BA (old club seat)
SIN-DOH (biz) Qatar Q suite
DOH-LHR (biz) BA – new seat)

I can also add one more flight and if I keep it at under 1900 miles, it doesnt put the avios up.
Both economy flights are day flights.

Is there a different website to seat spy that alerts me on JAL and Qantas availably

[Ladyshopper]

That sounds amazing. I can’t even begin to get my head round doing something like this!

[Alan T]

Sounds great for the base price (if you value an Avios at Nectar exchange prices or 1p say) when you compare it to a RTW Oneworld Explorer base price from LHR for a DONE4, even allowing for half the segments etc @ £6200 plus fees and taxes, if willing to fly the longest sector in Economy.

[pappap647]

UPDATE – Yesterday BA cancelled the entire booking.

They said If my final destination is Hawaii, cannot go to Sydney, and if my final destination is Sydney, then I cannot go to Hawaii.

I countered that there was zero availability in business from either DFW of LAX in my time frame, but they said I could then book economy.

The agent said these are not RWT tickets and they are clamping down on the rules.

[Richie]

Perhaps consider flying east ie LON-DOH-SIN-SYD etc.

[Lady London]

Are they saying you were backtracking by going HNL-Osaka-SYD?

If so then I can’t see why it was necessary to cancel the whole booking summarily. A lot of it could still be salvaged.

[Whatsthepoint]

I think Rob needs to look into it as your example is very similar to the examples he used to show how to go RTW with the partner reward chart? Other half and I were also looking to do something similar, it would a huge shame ol7f you can’t do it now.

[Mikeact]

I did try to warn you earlier…it can be totally frustrating. First I’ve heard of BA, ‘clamping down’. My booking eventually went through…starting and finishing in London…East bound. (And a weekend tacked on the end to AMS, to maximise mileage. ) nb I didn’t want to go to/via HNL, not that that should have made any difference. Persevere, and update here.

[John]

How does pricing work if the longest sector is in Premium econ?

[Stephen]

John wrote:

How does pricing work if the longest sector is in Premium econ?

1.5x AVIOS from this chart

https://www.britishairways.com/travel/multi-carrier-avios-costs-zone/public/en_gb

[Stephen]

Previously booked an 8 segment trip two years ago

Ireland->Qatar->Sri Lanka->Singapore->Malaysia->Thailand->Finland->England->Greece

England to Greece was a few months after the other flights too.

Recently tried to book a 7 segment trip (Dublin – Doha – Bali – Singapore – Malaysia – Sri Lanka – London – USA). It was initially ticketed until added on the London to USA segment.

British Airways agent said they have taken a disliking to people trying to “game” the system and mentioned about HFP. They couldn’t give specific rules but said they do apply.

If looking to book this type of ticket, try to do it all at once to have as few BA staff look at, as you risk them cancellating it for unclear reasons

[tjob81]

I’m waiting on them to price up LHR-MAN-HKG-SIN-SYD-PER-DOH-LHR

I called on Tuesday, not done this kind of booking before. How long does it usually take?

[Stephen]

tjob81 wrote:

I’m waiting on them to price up LHR-MAN-HKG-SIN-SYD-PER-DOH-LHR

I called on Tuesday, not done this kind of booking before. How long does it usually take?

I’ve always found it pretty quick (within 24-48 hours)

They do say they will send email notification asking you to call when it’s been processed, but I on a few occasions I haven’t received the email but the quote is available if you call them back

[Garethgerry]

It is an interesting strategy, if you split it into under say 8 hrs legs in CW or first , and then a 9 hr leg in PE in day time, would be my best option.

I’ll think if I can use this.

Does the same logic apply to Multi carrier trip that is not RTW

[John]

Stephen wrote:

It was initially ticketed until added on the London to USA segment.

British Airways agent said they have taken a disliking to people trying to “game” the system and mentioned about HFP. They couldn’t give specific rules but said they do apply.

If looking to book this type of ticket, try to do it all at once to have as few BA staff look at, as you risk them cancellating it for unclear reasons

Seems a bit unfair for them to cancel it if their own agent agreed to add an offending segment in contravention of the secret rules

Do you mean the whole reservation got deleted or did they just make you remove the last segment?

[Mikeact]

If I want to spend 320,000 Avios, in exchange for an actual 50,000 mileage Business Class trip, I fail to see what RTW has to do with it.
Where are the rules regarding MultiCarrier ?
I look to Rob/Rhys on this one..which has never, ever, been clarified.

[JDB]

Mikeact wrote:

If I want to spend 320,000 Avios, in exchange for an actual 50,000 mileage Business Class trip, I fail to see what RTW has to do with it.
Where are the rules regarding MultiCarrier ?
I look to Rob/Rhys on this one..which has never, ever, been clarified.

The rules for multi-carrier awards are based on their rewards table, BAEC redemption rules and IATA fare construction rules. What is there to clarify?

[Mikeact]

@JDB Just reviewing Stephens,and others, comments above…seems to intimate that BA don’t like it…RTW seems to be ‘gaming the system.’
It would be neigh on impossible to use 50,000 miles without going around the world, at least once, or maybe twice.

[masaccio]

Just what are the rules? Numerous bloggers give RTW examples, but I can’t find any rules published by BA.

[nectar collector]

Not sure if this helps but there is a Wiki and associated thread on FT about Oneworld RTW tickets

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/oneworld/2008084-oneworld-explorer-user-guide.html

[JDB]

Mikeact wrote:

@JDB Just reviewing Stephens,and others, comments above…seems to intimate that BA don’t like it…RTW seems to be ‘gaming the system.’
It would be neigh on impossible to use 50,000 miles without going around the world, at least once, or maybe twice.

@Mikeact – I don’t think the 50k miles are really the issue since they are, as you say, difficult but not impossible to use. The issue is that BA is trying to stop multi-carrier awards being used as backdoor RTW tickets because there are additional restrictions that apply to RTW fares including direction of travel, crossing traffic conference areas, crossing of the two big oceans only once (and that is generally observed very specifically). There are also some specific airline and routing exceptions in RTW and IATA rules.

Some of the routes I have seen suggested here seem to breach basic fare construction rules, let alone the RTW ones. While it may seem like BA being a pain, they are obliged to comply with IATA rules and, if they allow an incompatible routing, would be expected to pay the difference. In the old days of paper coupons, more slipped past non-issuing airlines (save a few known very efficient fare collectors/pro-rate calculators) but nowadays with e-tickets, partners are more alert to collecting extra dollars.

What’s annoying is that BA call centre agents know zippo about fares or ticketing so will book whatever but send it off to a fares/ticketing agent and some of them will pick up the problem with a particular itinerary. The experienced ones will spot the problem immediately without checking mileages etc.

[Mikeact]

Thanks. So, I think what you are saying, is,that using the MultiCarrier Award chart, it is impossible to know whether or not,your RTW routing will be accepted ? And if RTW is not acceptable, then it should be made very clear at the outset.

[JDB]

Mikeact wrote:

Thanks. So, I think what you are saying, is,that using the MultiCarrier Award chart, it is impossible to know whether or not,your RTW routing will be accepted ? And if RTW is not acceptable, then it should be made very clear at the outset.

It’s not impossible! The booking system will allow you, when calling, to book almost anything without checking fare rules, but when the system or the agent can’t calculate the Avios or cash fare it is sent to a fares/ticketing team. Your booking will be accepted and priced if it complies with the rules, so it’s worth checking the itinerary carefully to avoid surprises. I was quite surprised, without checking the detail, that the OP’s itinerary criss-crossing the Pacific would work.

[marcolau]

From what I see in the initial itinerary, the detour to Australia is the reason BA Fares team rejected the itinerary during tax calculation.

There have been various discussions on multi-carrier award on Flyertalk (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/2137884-avios-rtw-multi-carrier-flight-booking.html), and one BA staffer commented on it, which basically reiterated the requirement for the itinerary to take the most direct routing possible.

Specifically, BA fares team have been getting restrictive over the years in how a route is constructed, in order to prevent a cash equivalent of true round-the-world itinerary is being constructed. If the direct routing happens to be round-the-world given the availability restrictions that should be fine, but if any options see a deliberate V-shape bend stopover when plugging in Great Circle Mapper it will almost be certain be rejected.

Your best bet would be to ensure there’s a reasonable breaking point in the itinerary, and that a cash fare for each direction are available on ITA matrix in its entirety.

One example from my booking some months ago:
HKG-DOH(x)-BOS-PDX
ORD-TYO-KUL(x)-HKG
The BA agent added 2 restrictions to it in order to approve the itinerary:
No stopover at DOH – transit only (DOH is in IATA Zone 2 – they tried to prevent a round-the-world trip)
No stopover at KUL – transit only (Deliberate detour – only allowed as no direct option available)

[marcolau]

John wrote:

Seems a bit unfair for them to cancel it if their own agent agreed to add an offending segment in contravention of the secret rules

Do you mean the whole reservation got deleted or did they just make you remove the last segment?

Unfortunately under current BA hotline arrangements agents will just take whatever you ask them to hold, then they will send it to various queues at Fares team for calculation. The frontline agents have no information on whether it will eventually be accepted or not.

Also unless the full route is reproducible on ITA matrix (with matching cabins etc), the frontline system won’t be able to get the tax calculated automatically, and they will have to send the booking to the Fares team. I understand BA’s fares team have been heavily centralized post-covid.