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Yesterday my daughter was delayed at Amsterdam for approx 6 hours, the reason that was given was that the flight crew were out of hours, so they had to get another crew from the UK. This was any easyjet flight to Luton.
Sorry for such a rookie question but would she be entitled to compensation for this, none of us have ever bothered to claim before ? I don’t want to mention it to her incase she isn’t entitled as I would imagine the flight cost less than what EU261 compensation would be.
@Misty – it’s definitely worth mentioning to your daughter that she may be entitled to £220 compensation and she should claim it from easyJet but not count on getting the money until banked.
In principle, crewing issues cannot constitute ‘extraordinary circumstances’ but something must lie behind the crew running out of hours which could potentially give easyJet a get out and by getting a new crew from the UK, they took reasonable measures to minimise delay/avoid cancellation.
Once she has the response, she’ll either be pleased or you can ask for next steps if the explanation is implausible.
@Misty – it’s definitely worth mentioning to your daughter that she may be entitled to £220 compensation and she should claim it from easyJet but not count on getting the money until banked.
In principle, crewing issues cannot constitute ‘extraordinary circumstances’ but something must lie behind the crew running out of hours which could potentially give easyJet a get out and by getting a new crew from the UK, they took reasonable measures to minimise delay/avoid cancellation.
Once she has the response, she’ll either be pleased or you can ask for next steps if the explanation is implausible.
Thank you so much JDB, I just asked her and she said she had already applied via the easyjet site, so we will see what happens. On the plus side she did manage to read a complete book whilst there, but she is shattered today.
That sounds like a cancellation of her original flight and being put on a later one? Was the flight number different that she actually flew on?
If so then it makes compensation harder to fight especially as the no-notice puts it firmly within the < 14 days. In my own personal experience Easyjet has form for calling cancellations and rebooks to different flights “reschedulings”.
If not then unless Easyjet works hard then lack of crew for sickness or rostering/scheduling/lack of crew with hours left, starts off as within the control of the airline so not exceptional so compo due, unless the airline comes up with something good.
@JDB may be along soon to say airline may be able to go up to 3 flights back blaming an exceptional reason like weather somewhere in the world (BA’s specialty) or ATC restrictions but on balance I’d say Easyjet would have to work a bit if they go for this.Up to your own moral sense if you feel ticket price was disproportionately low to claim taking hours wasted stress and any inconvenience into account. There was a time when I flew Easyjet extremely frequently and I would not have claimed but having had a few cancellations-they-tried-to-claim-as-only-rescheduings (one with a 14-hour flight timing difference) from them since, I’d give it some thought. Probably as AMS is a relatively pleasant place to wait I’d settle just for a meal reveipt being paid from during the wait (that comes under right of care if a mealtime occurred whike waiting and there’s no exception to thrm paying that).
@LadyLondon
Thanks for your reply I’ll ask her if it was a different flight number.
Apparently EasyJet had to fly a crew in from Manchester.
Tell her to look at the boarding pass on her phone to check the flight number – before it disappears. Mine used to hang around for a little while after the flight. Paper of course also if she had a paper boarding pass or baggage receipt tag.
The issue re the flight number is a complete red herring and wouldn’t affect the outcome either way. From what we have been told the pax were delayed and travelled on the delayed aircraft once a crew had been sourced. Cancellation has a specific definition within EC261 and the Interpretative Guidelines at 3.2.1 and a change of flight number does not have to equate to a cancellation.
No it is not a red herring JDB. Easyjet may have consolidated the flights and/or cancelled more than one flight that ended up on the aircraft she flew on.
Checking the boarding pass may reveal this and if so then it makes a claim easier as harder to deny.
Wednesday 1st May was a Bank Holiday all over Europe so for reasons of holiday pay working cost and staff taking holiday on or around the date it’s highly likely it’s a crew shortage reducing resiliency to a small irrop.
Thanks to you both, will let you know the outcome.
I’ve yet to see an explanation of how a change in flight number doesn’t represent a cancellation (or if its passenger specific, being moved to a alternate flight which would bring in IDB). A flight is represented by its number. If it has a different number it’s a different flight.
I’ve yet to see an explanation of how a change in flight number doesn’t represent a cancellation (or if its passenger specific, being moved to a alternate flight which would bring in IDB). A flight is represented by its number. If it has a different number it’s a different flight.
A couple of recent examples would be Virgin rejigging the routing of some of its intra-Caribbean legs. Passengers on the transatlantic sector were unaffected, but the flight numbers were changed – not cancellations.
BA had some equipment changes on the Dubai route – from an A380 to smaller aircraft. In order to give effect to this, BA put on a flight with a different number at exactly the same times, also not a cancellation.
A flight delayed overnight may carry a different flight number when it operates the following day, either with an additional letter at the end or an entirely new number. That’s still a delay, not a cancellation. Similarly, diverted flights may operate the leg from a diversion airport with a new flight number; that also isn’t a cancellation.
The Interpretation states:
3.2.1. Definition of cancellation
Article 2(l) of the Regulation defines ‘cancellation’ as the non-operation of a flight which was previously planned and on which at least one place was reserved. Cancellation occurs in principle where the planning of the original flight is abandoned and passengers of that flight join passengers on a flight which was also planned, but independently of the original flight. Article 2(l) does not require an express decision of cancellation by the carrier.It’s all quite logical really, but some of these myths really don’t help people make successful claims.
Except BA treated it as a cancellation… (no idea about the Virgin ones).
The flight is planned with a flight number to represent it. If that number goes, it’s not the same flight.
BA could have kept the same flight number – a different plane isn’t a cancellation.
Except BA treated it as a cancellation… (no idea about the Virgin ones).
The flight is planned with a flight number to represent it. If that number goes, it’s not the same flight.
BA could have kept the same flight number – a different plane isn’t a cancellation.
Well, unfortunately the legislature and the executive branch that respectively approved the legislation and interpretation thereof don’t agree with your view and it’s the published definition that will prevail in any claim.
“Cancellation occurs in principle where the planning of the original flight is abandoned” the flight, with its unique flight number is abandoned. Another one is put in its place.
How exactly are you defining a flight?
Back to the OP post..it was a literal 6hr delay on the same flight. Looks like the aircraft and crew were on their 4th sector and the bad weather/ATC slot delays put them out of hours in Amsterdam hence awaiting a standby crew to position in from Manchester to get the aircraft and passengers home. I’m actually a little surprised they didn’t cancel it and just get pilots out there to pick it up when convenient
One of the unfortunate affects of Brexit actually – in the olden days they could have potentially got a crew from their Amsterdam base but now they aren’t allowed to operate G- reg Easyjet UK aircraft and vv
I suspect Easyjet are going to call extraordinary circumstances on this (ATC delays and weather) which I believe would be correct but will let the experts comment ! They still owe duty of care for any meals needed to be purchased if they didn’t provide vouchers
“Cancellation occurs in principle where the planning of the original flight is abandoned” the flight, with its unique flight number is abandoned. Another one is put in its place.
How exactly are you defining a flight?
“Cancellation occurs in principle where the planning of the original flight is abandoned” the flight, with its unique flight number is abandoned. Another one is put in its place.
How exactly are you defining a flight?
It’s very easy to make stuff up if you quote half of a sentence and ignore the rest of the paragraph. You are entitled to your view but it does not accord with the law which is quite clear in its wording and the consistent application of its terms.
You probably think I’m being difficult or pedantic but it’s actually rather unhelpful to anyone needing to make a claim to have duff information. What happens is that if you make a claim for cancellation compensation with many airlines and it wasn’t actually a cancellation they can and do simply respond that you aren’t eligible for cancellation compensation and that might be correct if the flight was just delayed. This is quite a common scenario with some airlines if you make an incorrect claim.
This is relatively easy to work out.
If the flight number you’re on is different then just check its number against regularly scheduled flights by that airline on that route. Most airlines fly the same routes the same day of the week during the part or all of the year they fly. Not always at the same time or closeish to for some longhaul, but a lot of the time at pretty much the same times of day especially if shorthaul.
So as soon as your flight nunber is different, check that operating airline’s regular schedule. It will be fairly easy to see if you’re now on a different flight that actually is a regularly appearing one on that day of the week in that airline’s schedule.
None of this is foolprof but it’s 90% and worth doing if you get a new flight number. Codeshares may make this more complicated if you bought one. But you will still be able to work out whether you’re on a different flight that normally operates or one of the “special” flights put in for irrops such as @JDB has kindly listed.
This is also worth a look even if you are notified of a “schedule change” long before the flight. As if in fact it’s a cancellation, if EU261 or UK261 applies then your rights are very considerably better sooner than if it’s a reschedule.
This is how I knew the 14-hour “rescheduling” Easyjet presented me with was in fact a cancellation. As to my few destinations they ran the same set of flights at pretty much the same times with the same flight numbers every day. When I checked the old and mew timetables they’d cancelled every flight except one, and my “rescheduled” flight had the same flight number as the one flight still left. So not a rescheduling, but a cancellation.
Airlines do seem to have developed some tricks to conceal this situation since but at that time it was pretty clear and it should be relatively easy for you to work out, if you discover that you have new flight number.
“Cancellation occurs in principle where the planning of the original flight is abandoned” the flight, with its unique flight number is abandoned. Another one is put in its place.
How exactly are you defining a flight?
It’s very easy to make stuff up if you quote half of a sentence and ignore the rest of the paragraph. You are entitled to your view but it does not accord with the law which is quite clear in its wording and the consistent application of its terms.
You probably think I’m being difficult or pedantic but it’s actually rather unhelpful to anyone needing to make a claim to have duff information. What happens is that if you make a claim for cancellation compensation with many airlines and it wasn’t actually a cancellation they can and do simply respond that you aren’t eligible for cancellation compensation and that might be correct if the flight was just delayed. This is quite a common scenario with some airlines if you make an incorrect claim.
“Cancellation occurs in principle where the planning of the original flight is abandoned” the flight, with its unique flight number is abandoned. Another one is put in its place.
How exactly are you defining a flight?
It’s very easy to make stuff up if you quote half of a sentence and ignore the rest of the paragraph. You are entitled to your view but it does not accord with the law which is quite clear in its wording and the consistent application of its terms.
You probably think I’m being difficult or pedantic but it’s actually rather unhelpful to anyone needing to make a claim to have duff information. What happens is that if you make a claim for cancellation compensation with many airlines and it wasn’t actually a cancellation they can and do simply respond that you aren’t eligible for cancellation compensation and that might be correct if the flight was just delayed. This is quite a common scenario with some airlines if you make an incorrect claim.
“Cancellation occurs in principle where the planning of the original flight is abandoned” the flight, with its unique flight number is abandoned. Another one is put in its place.
How exactly are you defining a flight?
It’s very easy to make stuff up if you quote half of a sentence and ignore the rest of the paragraph. You are entitled to your view but it does not accord with the law which is quite clear in its wording and the consistent application of its terms.
You probably think I’m being difficult or pedantic but it’s actually rather unhelpful to anyone needing to make a claim to have duff information. What happens is that if you make a claim for cancellation compensation with many airlines and it wasn’t actually a cancellation they can and do simply respond that you aren’t eligible for cancellation compensation and that might be correct if the flight was just delayed. This is quite a common scenario with some airlines if you make an incorrect claim.
I’m afraid I think you’re wrong, rather than pedantic. I don’t see how the rest of the paragraph alters the meaning of a flight. The question remains, how are you defining a flight if it can change number without being a different flight? The plane and type of plane can change and the times can change without it being a different flight.
@Matt – the key is that for it to be a cancellation, the passengers on the original flight need to be dispersed and booked onto other previously scheduled flights, ie as the guidelines state they:- “join passengers on a flight which was also planned, but independently of the original flight”. If a flight is just renumbered and moved to a different time and all the pax are put onto that, it’s not a cancellation.
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