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Hello,
I had a 2 for 1 companion voucher which expired in July 2024, which I used for Club World return flights to Singapore in September 2023. I have another voucher which expires in July 2025. However, both vouchers are showing in my exec club account and I can still search for reward flights with my old voucher.
Has anyone had experience in booking a reward flight with a voucher they’ve already used (thereby using it twice), or will BA just automatically take the unused voucher?
If there’s an opportunity to use a companion voucher, I’m more than happy to take it!
Thanks!
Well, it’s a morality question more than a travel one.
If BA has made a mistake and not properly taken the voucher for your Sep 2023, you could theoretically try to use it and see what happens/how it works out. Whether you think that’s an appropriate course of action and you are happy with the upside vs downside/risks, is a decision for you and your travel companion if using it as a 241 rather than 50%.
Did you make any changes to the booking in September 2023?
Given the abusive application of YQ on BA now – leading to instances where the base fare is lower in J than W – I’d have little moral issue here. The Avios are a sideshow compared to the hard cash they receive on long haul bookings.
And so long as the second voucher is unspent when you try to use the first, any issue picked up down the line would presumably be resolved by the 2025 voucher then being applied to the booking and it looking like BA’s systems are at fault.
Did you make any changes to the booking in September 2023?
Given the abusive application of YQ on BA now – leading to instances where the base fare is lower in J than W – I’d have little moral issue here. The Avios are a sideshow compared to the hard cash they receive on long haul bookings.
Well it’s an interesting moral justification, but the law doesn’t provide for this sort of ‘eye for an eye’ defence. If you think Tesco has been price gouging, that doesn’t entitle you to go shoplifting there.
That which you seek to justify to assuage any concerns for the OP is an offence and the necessary intent is there as well. Of course the prospects of prosecution are virtually zero but there are many other potential ramifications BA meekly swapping vouchers isn’t one of them.
You need to pay for your air tickets !
Did you make any changes to the booking in September 2023?
Given the abusive application of YQ on BA now – leading to instances where the base fare is lower in J than W – I’d have little moral issue here. The Avios are a sideshow compared to the hard cash they receive on long haul bookings.
And so long as the second voucher is unspent when you try to use the first, any issue picked up down the line would presumably be resolved by the 2025 voucher then being applied to the booking and it looking like BA’s systems are at fault.
This is exactly what I’m thinking. No morality issued when dealing with BA!
Like you said, worse case they just take the unused voucher. However, I’m considering using my used voucher for a trip that I wouldn’t necessarily use my unused voucher for.
I’ll have to decide what I want to do.
I had this same issue, I had 2 ‘used’ vouchers still sitting in my account from when I made booking changes to both on previous flights. When I spoke to an agent on the phone to make a test booking and see what would happen if I tried using one of them, the agent was sharp enough to note that it had been used already – she could see it in the back end. She also said this would have eventually been caught by their audit team. Whether that is true or not I don’t know, but something to be aware of.
BTW I would not have gone ahead with the flight anyway, I suspect the worst case could be more than just a voucher swap and I don’t want to chance having my account closed & avios nest egg nicked!
And here we have the first rule of f(l)ight club. Ask yourself but why? You are – I hope – a grown up who can assess situations and make decisions on your own. When the avios have a value ascribed by the issuer of a fraction of a penny as does the 2-4-1 voucher, in the absurd eventuality that this was ever clocked you could resolve it with a toe nail shaving. There is literally nothing to see here
And here we have the first rule of f(l)ight club. Ask yourself but why? You are – I hope – a grown up who can assess situations and make decisions on your own. When the avios have a value ascribed by the issuer of a fraction of a penny as does the 2-4-1 voucher, in the absurd eventuality that this was ever clocked you could resolve it with a toe nail shaving. There is literally nothing to see here
I’m at a bit of a loss to understand this. @Deek who has direct experience of this issue has very clearly and eloquently set out the considerations, yet we have someone who has no experience of the situation nor any knowledge of the law still encouraging others to commit a criminal offence.
It’s one thing if people wish to do this sort of thing themselves, but to encourage others seems beyond the pale.
I think the question is… Are you prepared to “run the gauntlet”, the risk being charged full price for the second ticket.
It will probably get caught in the back end. Personally I wouldn’t risk it.
And here we have the first rule of f(l)ight club. Ask yourself but why? You are – I hope – a grown up who can assess situations and make decisions on your own. When the avios have a value ascribed by the issuer of a fraction of a penny as does the 2-4-1 voucher, in the absurd eventuality that this was ever clocked you could resolve it with a toe nail shaving. There is literally nothing to see here
I’m at a bit of a loss to understand this. @Deek who has direct experience of this issue has very clearly and eloquently set out the considerations, yet we have someone who has no experience of the situation nor any knowledge of the law still encouraging others to commit a criminal offence.
It’s one thing if people wish to do this sort of thing themselves, but to encourage others seems beyond the pale.
A criminal offence? Pull the other one!
If a bank accidentally credits your account, it’s not a criminal offence to spend the money, even if you know it’s a mistake. Yes, you’re going to have to give it back if they ask, but no one is going to prison.
Please can y’all stop trolling @JDB. He doesn’t like it.
A person is guilty of an offence if—
(a)a wrongful credit has been made to an account kept by him or in respect of which he has any right or interest;
(b)he knows or believes that the credit is wrongful; and
(c)he dishonestly fails to take such steps as are reasonable in the circumstances to secure that the credit is cancelled.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/24A/data.pdf
Nice try, you almost had me. Luckily however, you linked to the legislation, showing that you conveniently missed out the very next section:
(2) References to a credit are to a credit of an amount of money.
A credit to an account is wrongful to the extent that it derives from—
(a) theft;
(b) blackmail;
(c) fraud (contrary to section 1 of the Fraud Act 2006); or
(d) stolen goods.None of these are relevant to having an unused 2-4-1 left in your BAEC account – or a bank accidentally crediting you, as per my analogy
Nice try, you almost had me. Luckily however, you linked to the legislation, showing that you conveniently missed out the very next section:
(2) References to a credit are to a credit of an amount of money.
A credit to an account is wrongful to the extent that it derives from—
(a) theft;
(b) blackmail;
(c) fraud (contrary to section 1 of the Fraud Act 2006); or
(d) stolen goods.]None of these are relevant to having an unused 2-4-1 left in your BAEC account – or a bank accidentally crediting you, as per my analogy
The defence rests m’lud
Well @tontoro I hope nobody is relying upon your advice to keep them out of trouble. The accidental bank credit situation is covered under s24A of the Theft Act 1968 and is punishable by up to ten years in prison.
I am surprised that you suggest that if an offender returns property or money that somehow absolves them of the crime which of course it doesn’t. It may reduce any sentence, but they will still be charged and convicted in any deal involving return of the stolen money/property.
In respect of the voucher, it is also an offence. If you think about it logically rather than thinking of it as some windfall from an evil corporation to take advantage of, it would be clearer. The voucher when used as a 241 is part of the consideration for a pair of tickets. If you knowingly/intentionally use an expired voucher to obtain a second ticket, you have taken that ticket, deliberately not paid for it and this could be various different offences.
As I said in an earlier post, the chances of being prosecuted are virtually zero but I would hope most people are honest enough not even to consider it.
@tontoro you will find that @froggee is unsurprisingly correct; he is a clever chap. The section that you have cited is out of date. There is now the word ‘also’ added. What it has always been understood to mean and you will find confirmed in the CPS charging guidelines is that credits from those specific sources listed are de facto ‘wrongful’. As they say, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
It’s a rather grey area, as neither loyalty points nor vouchers have any monetary value, and therefore can’t be stolen. Also I would contend that someone would need to materially alter a companion voucher so that it appeared to be valid to the person who redeemed it to be committing fraud. It would be the same as handing over an expired credit card or foreign banknote to pay for something – you’re not trying to pretend those things are something else, you’d just be unable to complete your transaction with them.
There was a case with a well-known TV presenter and Virgin points a few years ago where clearly something like this had been going on but it wasn’t sufficient to determine that any offence had been committed.
Of course it goes without saying that it’s not worth risking having your account closed by BA!
@NorthernLass – re the voucher, in this instance it’s not a grey area because we aren’t talking about stealing anything.
In respect of your concern re what BA might do to someone’s account I trust that’s a secondary issue as against the fundamental dishonesty which is not altered one jot by the justifications above about BA’s behaviour.
I wonder whether those who are advocating attempting to reuse the voucher come clean with their travelling companion and if they have children how they teach them about right and wrong.
I’m with @JDB on this. The voucher is used. You know it is used. To then attempt to book more flights with it is dishonest and wrong. It is obtaining services by deceit and is therefore fraudulent especially as the idea is to obtain a second seat for zero Avios. You are trying to pay fewer Avios than you really should be paying, even if you are liable for the associated taxes fees and other charges. And deep down you know that.
I’m not saying it isn’t morally dishonest and wrong, though, I’m saying it’s very unlikely to constitute a criminal offence. As I said, avios have no monetary value and therefore it’s not actually possible to commit a criminal offence relating to them. If it was the monetary element of the ticket which you were trying to reduce, that is a different matter.
You wouldn’t be criminally deceiving anyone by trying to use an expired voucher to make a booking – you’d simply be attempting to use it contrary to the Ts and Cs attached to it. Avios are worth nothing, therefore you’re reducing the amount of … nothing.
And I can tell you exactly how CPS views issues relating to loyalty points. A classic example is one where a Boots card was stolen with £1000 “worth” of Advantage points on it. The charging decision was that the only property which had been stolen was the plastic card, which was allocated a nominal value of £1, because the points themselves are worth £0, as in zilch, nothing. They have no value, they are not tangible property and cannot therefore be stolen or used fraudulently.
This is like the IHG ambassador voucher all over again. I had that sitting in my account taunting me for a full year and was delighted when it was removed after finally expiring.
Forgetting about the whole honesty thing, I’d argue the risk vs reward for booking a flight with an already used 241 is pretty poor.
On the honesty thing, my parents brought me up on the understanding that if I was going to be a naughty Froggee then I had to go large. Fort Knox or bust as it were.
Posted in wrong area
It’s wrong to use it, we agree that I think.
But I’m curious now – at what level do things become morally wrong. So people booking rewards to a regional airport (more availability) knowing full well, say with HBO, they’ll be getting off at LHR.
That’s also wrong but are people afforded a pass there as its not as wrong? Where is the line drawn?
@ekposh missing a sector on a booking is a contractual/civil matter whereas attempting to use an already used voucher is a criminal issue (some earlier comment is simply wrong), even if the prospect of being prosecuted for it is incredibly unlikely. In the event an airline pursued a passenger for skiplagging, you can pay the difference and that’s the end of the matter. You can’t dig yourself out of the other situation. It’s not the clear line you were perhaps seeking, but gives an idea of the relative seriousness.
@JDB, does BA lose anything if someone skips the last leg on a redemption booking? For example, they booked MAN-LHR-SIN return on a 241 to open extra availability? The domestic connections don’t seem to incur any extra avios or £. For cash bookings, of course they do, as a non-stop flight is more expensive. The example above was about skipping a redemption leg, so is there any loss to the airline?
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