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I wonder if someone could help me on the 7th July we were flying las vegas to Man with virgin at check in my husband was downgraded to premium due to a broken seat in upper class he was given a letter that stated he would get 35,000 flying points in compensation
This flight was paid for with a voucher and flying club miles then we bidded up to upperclass which was excepted 2 days before the flight
There first offer was refund of the upgrade money and 5000 virgin which I decline straight away
We have now been offered the original 35,000 miles i was given at checkin and a refund for the bid upgrade price do you think this is fair outcome
I was also downgraded to premiumYou are confusing two things here.
Legally, you get 75% of what you paid for that half of the trip. They need to pay you this. The fact you bought an upgrade is immaterial. The trip cost is what you originally paid plus the upgrade price.
ON TOP Virgin has given you an extra 35,000 points but this does not take away your legal right to a 75% refund. If you were asked to sign something giving up all your legal rights it is not binding.
Thank you for the reply how would this work out we paid £960 for 2 premium seats with miles and voucher return then upgraded both ways for £880 each way they have actioned the refund for the return leg upgrade £880 my husband did mention about the eu compensation only to be told this is only for flight cancelations and didn’t cover downgrades
Accept the 35000 points and refund of the upgrade payment. Then look at the email with ticket price breakdown that you got at time of booking and look at the numbers. subtract the government taxes and claim back 75% of the rest of the payment including points by assuming a 1p/point valuation. The compensation is calculated based on the equivalent value of the points and any cash (surcharges) you paid for the downgraded sector
Suppose you booked a long-haul flight (>3,500km) in business class using 20,000 points+ £400 in surcharges (per person), and you are downgraded to economy:
points refund: 75% of 20,000 = 15,000 Avios per person
Cash refund: 75% of £400 = £300 per person
No refund for government taxes or airport fees
You may need to request these refunds explicitly
Read more on https://www.headforpoints.com/forums/topic/downgrade-compensation-advice-2/
best of luck
@virgincompo – I don’t believe the advice above is the correct way to proceed as it mixes pounds and points, values those points at only 1p which is madness and appears to accept the 35,000 points as part of your statutory compensation when it’s an ex gratia payment additional to and quite separate from your EC261 Article 10 rights. It’s additionally clear it must be ex gratia when Virgin advises that downgrades don’t attract compensation.
I would be writing back to VS thanking them for the ex gratia 35,000 but that they haven’t addressed the downgrade compensation which, contrary to their incorrect assertions, you are entitled to be paid within seven days pursuant to EC261 Article 10(2)(c).
VS is entitled to reimburse/compensate you in points for the element you paid in points so you need to set out in the simplest clear way possible, ideally in a table, each amount you paid in cash fir the downgraded sector x 75% (after deducting any actual disbursements which should be shown on your e-ticket), and the points x 75% and all this needs to incorporate the value of the voucher as well.
Give them 14 days to pay your total claim of £xx failing which, say you will escalate to AviationADR or MCOL where you will be claiming the cost of the points at their full purchase price (of x.xxp) plus court fees and interest at the County Court rate as applicable.
Thankyou for all your replies we did what you said and this is the reply from virgin is this correct
As discussed, your original ticket was purchased in premium and then a Your Bid was accepted for a promotional upgrade into Upper Class for your return flight. Due to the circumstances at the airport, you were downgraded back into your original class of cabin in Premium where you had originally purchased your ticket. A full refund of the Your Bid amount and the 35,000 points as goodwill gesture offered is the correct process. As you travelled in your original class of cabin, you are sadly not entitled to an EC compensation
@JDB, slightly off topic, but any advice on how to get hold of a Virgin e-ticket? I never received this originally and when I requested what I thought would be a copy from my booking, this is just an itinerary.
@virgincompo – I have dealt with many dozens of aviation complaints and although never one involving upgrade bids, instinctively Virgin’s response is wrong for two principal reasons:-
A) once your Upper bid is accepted, you have a confirmed reservation in that class the same as anyone else’s and are accordingly eligible for any of the compensations provided for under EC261. I haven’t seen the bid terms but I doubt they say that your confirmed bid might not ultimately be honoured. Virgin can’t anyway contract out of EC261 as they are suggesting.
B) Virgin is basically saying that by refunding your bid amount they have put you back in the position you were originally but EC261 requires Virgin to do more than that. They are required to compensate you for the inconvenience caused
which “derives from the fact that he does not benefit, during that flight, from the comfort corresponding to the class indicated in that ticket.” [Mennnens para 27]The fact that Virgin accepted your bid is very poor given that the booking situation must have been very tight but then to use you as the swing factor downgradee is even worse and, from their perspective easily foreseeable. Then to attempt to avoid compensating you in accordance with statute merely compounds the error.
I would write back to Virgin, copying the Executive Office setting out how much compensation they owe (making it clear the 35,000 goodwill is a totally separate matter) and ask for that to be paid within seven days as required by Article 10 and it’s now x days since your original claim.
I would keep pushing with Virgin as if you take it to AviationADR I fear they might not understand bids and simply swallow Virgin’s nonsense.
I wonder if VS are trying – erroneously – to rely upon Youe Bid T&Cs and saying thos was a matter of a ‘change to your flight’?
16 If we cancel or change your flight and re-book you on another flight, we will try (subject to availability) to honour the upgrade purchased. If the relevant upgraded cabin is not available, passengers will be seated in the original cabin of the ticket purchased and we will offer (as your sole remedy) a full refund of the upgrade price. If you decide not to travel at all we will refund the cost of your ticket plus the upgrade price. If your bid was accepted and your credit card was charged the bid amount and your flight departs but the upgrade was not provided for reasons attributable to Virgin Atlantic, you may apply for a refund. Virgin Atlantic is under no obligation to refund the bid amount if the upgrade was not provided for reasons attributable to you and/or the other passenger(s) in your booking.
Did the OP actually get a new ticket sent to them or just an e-mail saying your upgrade has been accepted. Is the later an actual ticket? VS may be relying on that to say you didn’t actually have a UC ticket so weren’t downgraded.
@JDB, slightly off topic, but any advice on how to get hold of a Virgin e-ticket? I never received this originally and when I requested what I thought would be a copy from my booking, this is just an itinerary.
Sorry, but I have never tried to get a VS e-ticket but maybe via Delta??
I wonder if VS are trying – erroneously – to rely upon Youe Bid T&Cs and saying thos was a matter of a ‘change to your flight’?
16 If we cancel or change your flight and re-book you on another flight, we will try (subject to availability) to honour the upgrade purchased. If the relevant upgraded cabin is not available, passengers will be seated in the original cabin of the ticket purchased and we will offer (as your sole remedy) a full refund of the upgrade price. If you decide not to travel at all we will refund the cost of your ticket plus the upgrade price. If your bid was accepted and your credit card was charged the bid amount and your flight departs but the upgrade was not provided for reasons attributable to Virgin Atlantic, you may apply for a refund. Virgin Atlantic is under no obligation to refund the bid amount if the upgrade was not provided for reasons attributable to you and/or the other passenger(s) in your booking.
Did the OP actually get a new ticket sent to them or just an e-mail saying your upgrade has been accepted. Is the later an actual ticket? VS may be relying on that to say you didn’t actually have a UC ticket so weren’t downgraded.
You don’t need an actual ticket to engage EC261 (hence why those who arrive at the airport with an unticketed booking will usually still have an EC261 denied boarding claim if they miss the flight). A confirmation of some sort suffices.
Those quoted terms at para 16 relate specifically to the flight for which your bid was accepted then being cancelled or changed when VS doesn’t guarantee to honour the upgrade. That’s a pretty questionable attempt to contract someone out of EC261, but anyway doesn’t appear to the OP’s situation.
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