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Flybe enters administration – what happens next?

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Flybe has finally collapsed tonight, after the Government refused additional requests for emergency funding.

The website went down around 10.45pm:

Here is the official notice issued at Glasgow Airport, impounding one of their aircraft for non-payment of fees (click to enlarge):

Flybe enters administration

The last aircraft to land was due to be BE7308 from Hannover to Manchester at around 10.30pm.

If you saw my BBC TV interview on Tuesday, you will know that I mentioned Flybe when asked about airlines which I thought may collapse.  I felt a bit guilty about saying this, since I know many of the senior team there, but it was not exactly the sort of guess which required an industry expert.

The Financial Times had reported earlier that the Government had rejected the original request by the airline for a £100 million loan.  Whilst it was possible that Flybe would have benefited from changes to Air Passenger Duty in the budget next week, this may have been too little too late.  Any changes would have taken time to implement, and there is even talk of the budget being postponed in full as coronavirus is making financial planning difficult for the Government.

By the time you read this we will probably have the full picture.  The airline does not night-stop any aircraft, I believe, so all of the assets should have been back on UK soil late tonight unless any were impounded abroad.

This is not necessarily the end:

Will Virgin Atlantic buy the airline from the administrators?  (Difficult, given that it would have to resume trading at a time when no-one is booking.)

What will happen to the regional airports which are dependent on Flybe to keep operating?  Look at this list (some of these are franchised Flybe flights which will continue):

Anglesey – 100% Flybe 

Southampton – 95% Flybe

Belfast City – 80% Flybe

Exeter – 78% Flybe

Newquay – 66% Flybe

Wick – 59% Flybe

Jersey – 57% Flybe

Cardiff – 52% Flybe

Guernsey – 50% Flybe

Isle of Man – 49% Flybe

Does British Airways get back the ex-bmi Heathrow slots which it was forced to divest to Virgin Little Red and then Flybe?

Who will pick up the two routes which are operated under public subsidy?

Are the Stobart assets ring-fenced from the administration – and if not, what happens to the flights that Stobart runs under contract for Aer Lingus?

And who will fill the Hampton by Hilton Exeter Airport every night, which was only built after Flybe guaranteed to provide most of the guests via people who were at its training academy next door?!

There is, somewhere inside Flybe, a small and profitable regional airline which is not weighed down the financial and physical baggage of a history of failed expansion.

Whether Virgin Atlantic is the one to put this back together remains to be seen, but I would imagine that the profitable routes are not the ones which would provide Virgin with feed.

For the rest of the airline industry, there is no good news here.  The biggest winners from Flybe’s collapse, if the pieces are not picked up, will be the train companies and petrol stations.  In the meantime, the public will become even more paranoid about booking flight tickets.   If Norwegian follows in the next couple of weeks then there really will be a crisis of confidence.

EDIT:  We have now added a new article covering the announcements from Loganair, Eastern and Blue Islands as they pick up ex-Flybe routes.

Comments (193)

This article is closed to new comments. Feel free to ask your question in the HfP forums.

  • Zara says:

    OT: am sure this has been discussed many many times but as I only purchased the initial points near the end of December, my 8 weeks have just passed and amex are not budging. Are there any success stories and how did you get them across the line? Thanks in advance.

    • Zara says:

      Re Bonvoy!

      • David says:

        I believe people have reported success even if not targeted by raising with Bonvoy directly.

        • Zara says:

          Thank you – do you happen to know: What did they do/say? I don’t have a clue what to say to Bonvoy?

        • SteveD says:

          That is the case, yes.

          But in my opinion you should chase Bonvoy not Amex.

          • Sandgrounder says:

            I emailed bonvoy. I sent blog posts because I couldn’t find the original email (no comment). They said they would look into it, and the points posted before the reply. The adviser said the points had posted without their intervention, and gave me some extra on top for inconvenience.

          • Zara says:

            Thanks Sandgrounder- what email address did you use? TIA

          • Sandgrounder says:

            Hi Zara it was bonvoy.partner (at) marriott-service.com

          • Zara says:

            I contacted Bonvoy and they said they’ve opened a case and are contacting amex for resolution…. hmmm…not sure that sounds positive!

  • Nick_C says:

    I’ve felt for a long time that EU261 is unduly harsh and might ultimately act against the interests of consumers.

    Personally, I think compensation should not exceed the cost of the ticket unless passengers suffer a real loss.

    When I flew back from LA a few years ago we were delayed by over 6 hours due to a delay on the outbound flight. I wasn’t inconvenienced in any way, but the compensation exceeded the cost of the ticket. Crazy.

    EU261 discourages risk taking, and in turn discourages innovation.

    Ignorant climate change protestors will be celebrating the collapse of FlyBe, but some of their flights were more environmentally friendly than my small car (CO2 emissions per passenger km), and they played a key role in linking the regions. Road and rail are not suitable alternatives for many of the FlyBe routes.

    • insider says:

      i agree – it’s a big cost to airlines which does favour consumers, but feels unbalanced. For example, i’m pretty sure if you fly to dallas on BA then connect on an AA flight somewhere, if BA was the ticketed carrier, and the AA flight is delayed, BA have to pay the full compensation. Not bad for consumers!

      • marcw says:

        No. AA must pay compensation. It’s the operating carrier causing the delay.

      • AJA says:

        I think your scenario would be out of scope of EU261 as the delayed flight (AA) did not depart from the EU. It would only kick in if the AA flight was ticketed by BA (ie on the same itinerary as the BA flight) and the delay was caused by the BA flight departing from the EU meaning you missed your booked AA flight and were rerouted onto another AA flight arriving at your ultimate destination over 3 hours later than originally scheduled..

        But in your scenario AA still performed the service to get you (albeit late) to your destination.They may offer something as a service recovery but it would be a goodwill gesture.

    • Anna says:

      You think EU261 is crazy but you claimed anyway?!

      • Nick_C says:

        Of course. I thought MIRAS was crazy, but I claimed that as well. And I will claim Winter Fuel Allowance in the fullness of time unless a Government has the cojones to stand up to wealthy pensioners and abolish it in its current form.

        Anyone who flies with a profitable airline is paying for EU261 through higher ticket prices, and would be stupid not to claim it when they can.

        But I would prefer to see EU261 reformed, prices fall, and companies like FlyBe survive.

        • Philip says:

          Very well said.

        • marcw says:

          Honestly, it’s not like that. EC261 was there to protect customers from targeted cancelations. If you had a 10am flight to Manchester from LHR, with low loads, the airline could have told you “sorry your flights is cancelled you have been rebooked on the 12 pm flight.”. That was the main target for EC261.

          Of course, this developed until a judge said “a delay of 3h on short/medium haul flight is EQUIVALENT to a cancellation. +6h in long haul”. And that’s where we are now.

          • Shoestring says:

            yes

            and it has made airlines get their act together

            eg I honestly believe Ryanair doesn’t overbook flights on *most* flights (their stated policy) – probably just the ones where it knows no-shows are likely – they happen to be the most reliable big airline in Europe for timing, as well

          • Lady London says:

            BA did this to me more than once on early flights and I had it done by LX too. Lightly loaded early flights cancelled for transparently lying excuse because it was cheaper for BA to put me on the 09.30 flight instead of the 06.20 flught. Great except that flight got me with later time in Europe there too late for my interview. Ditto at the other end of the day with LX when for transparently untrue reasons the second to last flight was cancelled. For LX convenience we could all get home nearer midnight than 9pm.

            Thank heavens EU261 makes airlines think about this before they do it now. Yes there are still abuses and ways they can choose that inconvenience a greater number of people but don’t actually mean they have to pay anyone. But at least it keeps the abuses in check which was sorely needed.

        • Lady London says:

          There was a lot of abuse by airlines before EU261, @Nick_C and it was sorely needed and still is.

          Even with EU261 easyj and Ryan’s are still messing around passengers – but in a way that a lot of pax can’t claim.

          TBH @Nick,_C I’ve had the impression for a while that you work for British Airways and sit at Waterside? I think you could be a bit biased, if so.

          However I do agree with you that some aspects of EU261 have gone a little too far such as the compo for strikes decision. Duty of care, yes, but not an absolute right to compo.

          I say this as someone who in the past year has twice declined duty of care as I did not feel it was fair on the airline and I was in a position to cover the small cost of staying another day myself.

          A route I use was also completely cancelled by the airline and flights on another useful route severely reduced due to EU261 costs. However I think it’s fair enough that EU261 should have a moderating influence on airlines’ thoughts and actions otherwise we would be back to giving them a free hand to abuse passengers.

          • Shoestring says:

            [However I think it’s fair enough that EU261 should have a moderating influence on airlines’ thoughts and actions otherwise we would be back to giving them a free hand to abuse passengers.]

            Perfectly expressed & this is exactly what I & I guess most air travellers want – to be treated fairly & with respect – we’re not flying knowing we can rip off airlines with EC261 (if we get delayed) – but neither do we want the airlines to see us as stupid joes to be taken advantage of.

            A fair relationship between flight provider and the joe that pays for the flight.

          • Nick_C says:

            “TBH @Nick,_C I’ve had the impression for a while that you work for British Airways and sit at Waterside? I think you could be a bit biased, if so.”

            ROTFL. Many of my posts about BA have been critical. Dormitory class. Poor lounges. Paying for seat selection in Club. Boarding after economy passengers (with status) when flying Club. And my policy of using BA for redemptions and AA when I’m buying a ticket. I’ve never worked for BA.

            But I do say nice things about them as well. I try to be fair in my judgement.

    • AJA says:

      The point of EU261 compensation is because of the way airlines would arbitrarily cancel flights and leave you stranded and inconvenienced. The amount you receive is compensation for the stress and inconvenience caused to you by the airline failing to fulfil the contract of service you paid for. It is set at the levels it is in order to incentivise the airlines to try to stick to their schedules. It is nothing to do with the cost of the fare. You don’t receive more compensation for travelling in a premium cabin vs economy.

      I am perfectly happy that EU261 discourages risk taking (by which I think you mean the airlines doing the risk taking?). They really should not be doing anything risky.

      The fact that it still exists is because airlines still do things that leave passengers inconvenienced and sometimes out of pocket. There are extraordinary circumstances that mean they do not need to pay any compensation which the airlines often use as an excuse to get out of paying even when they should.

      You say you weren’t inconvenienced by a 6-hour delay but that was just you. What would you have said if another passenger had an onward connection from LHR which they missed because of that delay you experienced in LA? Should that person receive compensation and you not (because you apparently weren’t inconvenienced)?

      I also think you were inconvenienced by being delayed by 6 hours. What you’re suggesting is that 6 hours is an acceptable delay. You’re saying that the airlines have no obligation to try to routinely get to your destination on time as per their published schedule. What’s the point of even publishing a schedule in that case? Just let the airlines publish a departure time (that they don’t have to stick to) as long as they get you to your destination at some point.

      • Nick_C says:

        “I also think you were inconvenienced by being delayed by 6 hours. What you’re suggesting is that 6 hours is an acceptable delay.”

        I wasn’t. Woke up in the morning to find a text message from BA saying there was a 6 hour delay on the flight and I should check in later. Extra sightseeing and a more convenient flight time. Didn’t even have to pay any extra for leaving the T5 car park late.

        If I had been inconvenienced in any way, some compensation would have been appropriate.

    • Alex Sm says:

      this is exactly why the EU now wants to change the terms of it making claims harder

    • Callum says:

      What risk taking and innovation do you imagine EC261 prevents? I genuinely can’t think of anything interesting. If the innovation is going to result in large reliability problems (the only way EC261 comes into it), I’m not sure it’s something I’d want happening!

      • Nick_C says:

        It makes it more difficult for new airlines to enter the market. BA, with a fleet of 280 aircraft, can afford to have spare aircraft to cover technical problems. A start up airline with a fleet that you can count on the fingers of one hand cannot afford to do that. So it places potential new entrants to the market at a disadvantage.

        It also makes bringing in a new aircraft type more risky. My delayed flight back from LAX was on the A380. The plane developed a fault, and with a fleet of on 12 BA didn’t have a suitable spare aircraft.

        Finally it discriminates against EU airlines. A new British transatlantic startup will have to pay compensation for every flight that is significantly delayed. A new US transatlantic airline only has to pay compensation on half of delayed flights – the ones departing the EU for the US.

  • Muzer says:

    What I’m curious about is the future of Southampton Airport. I feel like it’s too convenient for too many people for it to just close, having excellent road and rail and half-decent bus connections and generally being a great airport to go from. But obviously most of their flights were Flybe. So I guess it remains to be seen whether or not another airline will see the potential and buy up the slots from the administrators…

    • Russ 😷 says:

      These flights were originally set up to transport navy personnel. Now unless they are going to move the English Channel pretty sure someone at Navy HQ is wondering if they should pay for it themselves.

    • Matthew says:

      I imagine airports will be giving slots not selling them, bar of course LHR. I used Flybe for Cardiff to Glasgow flights, back via Bristol due to schedule issues. Generally I had a good experience with them.
      The problem is train fares are crazy, so we will now drive to Glasgow.
      Hope Flybe staff are treated fairly and all get new jobs as quick as possible, which currently is not likely.

      • marcw says:

        No airline owns slots. They have a right to use a specific slot in slot controlled airport if they fulfil certain conditions. They may be able to trade those rights.

        Majority of regional UK airports are not slo controlled.

      • mvcvz says:

        I concur. I use trains (northwest to London and back) in the UK around 3-4 times per year only, exclusively for work purposes. My employer funds first class tickets but, despite this, the experience is utterly miserable at least 75% of the time.

        I would not consider using a train for personal/leisure travel in the UK even if the tickets were free and I got to sit between Kelly Brooke and Helena Bonham-Carter every time. Now, where are my car keys as I’m off to London for the weekend?

    • stevenhp1987 says:

      I live very close to the airport (under the flightpath). If the airport was to close the value of my home might go up… but I want to be able to jump in a taxi for < 10 minutes and go somewhere but Flybe was very expensive and the route network was very poor. I've flown from SOU only a handful of times and mostly drive up to LHR or LGW.

      I was disappointed when KLM left as I'm sat on a large pile of VS miles!

      I think they need the expansion to happen (which the majority of local residents are opposed to) in order to survive.

      • Shoestring says:

        did you see that Bristol residents managed to block the expansion of Bristol Airport?

        nothing at all to do with noise for 99% of them as that’s only a very minor issue due to airport siting – it was all about green/ climate change issues and local councillors wanting to hoover up some votes

        I suppose some people might call that local democracy and accountability in action, the fools! 🙂

        but it just ends up meaning regional connectivity won’t get better any time soon, with follow on consequences for the local economy/ jobs etc

        https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-airport-expansion-plans-what-3835177

        • Russ 😷 says:

          Another view is we shut UK civil airports and catch trains to the continent and board flights there.

          • mvcvz says:

            Or we could simply walk across the water to wherever we wish to go. Like Shoestring.

        • Callum says:

          I know many people don’t understand the concept, but for some, there are more important things in life than money. Crazy I know.

  • Aston100 says:

    Amex are still telling me they won’t consider the cost difference for purchasing new flights.
    i.e. all that is covered is the flights alone.
    A bit unclear about the hotel.
    Also they wont look at section 75 yet. They say they want to dispute the charges first.
    Is all of this correct?
    I thought Shoestring and others were saying last night that consequential losses would apply, possibly including the travel to another airport and overnight hotels etc?
    Granted the flights are not for a few months – could that be why?

    • james says:

      Consequential losses like that – not entitled

      • james says:

        Also worth remembering that S75 only applies where goods and services above £100 – in a lot of cases Flybe flights (inc mine) are under £100.

        • Shoestring says:

          if S75 applies, it *does* actually cover consequential losses, which might be the higher extra cost of a replacement ticket if you get a refund, plus any other reasonable costs you need to incur to see the original contract fulfilled

          • Aston100 says:

            OK so how do I convey this to Amex?
            They’ve told me straight up that if I buy replacement flights, those won’t be treated as consequential loss.

          • Shoestring says:

            it’s a slightly tricky situation to negotiate, as you obvs want Amex onside as they will be more helpful this way

            in your position, I would go on Chat first of all & point by point make your case for this to be treated as S75 protection, needing to be confirmed as such right now

            eg
            1. I paid on xyz *credit* card (not charge card)
            2. purchases over £100 are protected by S75
            3. list a few points that S75 covers (just look up some stuff online)
            4. explain you would like to purchase a new ticket, the extra cost if you get a refund through chargeback will be £?
            5. you may need to incur further reasonable costs such as getting to a different airport, staying night in hotel etc if flight makes this necessary
            6. maybe only reasonable option for new flight date is a day later etc, so you’ll need hotel night etc, which is covered under S75
            etc

            then if you get a BS answer, ask to be transferred to a supervisor – I never had to go higher than a supervisor to get my queries resolved but there could easily be another managerial level you can get the Chat transferred to

            if no joy, ask for this to be formally documented as a complaint, they’ll probably say OK & they’ll come back in 10 days

            mention you have the option of referring this case to the Financial Ombudsman because they are not treating the case as a S75 issue and fulfilling their obligations

          • Freddy says:

            I had to specifically say I had consequential losses and wanted to claim s.75 when I had a Thomas Cook claim. They sent out a s.75 claim form which I completed with the cost of my replacement flights. Paid up eventually

          • Aston100 says:

            *Dear moderators, are you aware literally every post of mine awaits moderation checks?*

            Replying here because I can’t reply directly to comments further down this trail.

            After several attempts, Amex have finally agreed to go down the s75 route. Shocking how on multiple web chat conversations with different agents they kept avoiding s75 and kept pointing me towards some charge dispute instead.
            I literally had to keep saying “no thank you, I want to use s75 please” about 3 times in a row to the last agent before it seems I must have ticked some box somewhere and he went into s75 mode and confirmed I would receive a form in 5 working days.
            It felt as if they are deliberately trained to avoid s75 unless someone asks a set number of times.

            So my question is: I am intending to fly from a London airport and will need to leave the car in a long stay car park. How do I claim for the car park (About £150) and the fuel costs (About £40) if I haven’t already purchased those?
            Can I claim for an estimate?
            I mean I could just book the car park anyway, and hope nothing else changes between now and the summer departure date, which would allow me to put a real figure into the claim form. But what about fuel? How do I claim for that months in advance?

            Thanks again.

          • TGLoyalty says:

            Why would parking be a valid claim under s.75?

            You mention London airport. Where was your original flight from and to? If you have many months until you fly Amex May find a more reasonable alternative

          • Alex Sm says:

            should I proceed with booking new flights straight away or to get approval from Amex first to do that?

          • Shoestring says:

            @Aston 100 – the most important principle is to be reasonable in your claim (and obviously play it very straight/ don’t milk the situation)

            @Alex SM – I’d personally get prior approval but if it’s a S75 situation (ie satisfies S75 parameters), you could do it either way, ie claim after you have incurred the costs.

            I can’t see any credit card co giving you money upfront, they will want to see receipts.

    • mvcvz says:

      If Shoestring says it is so, then it must be true.

  • Cuchlainn says:

    OT ( no Bits ) – Hilton Redemptions.
    OH has Amex Plat and I am her supplementary – I registered and have HH Gold status.
    Q1. It appears only 1 person per household under Amex Plat can be HH Gold at any one time…… ?
    Q2. Booking 3 rooms for 6 adults for 2 nights for DD’s graduation using only my HH Points. Presume only myself ( Gold ) and OH ( sharing my room ) are entitled to complimentary breakfast, so need to pay for additional 8 ( 2 nights x 4 pax ) breakfasts……..?

    All assistance welcomed as 6 return flights and 3 days car hire mid-July is starting to mount up ££ 😀

    • Lee says:

      2 diamond and 3 gold in one household, no problem

    • Sean says:

      both my wife and i are gold via amex plat and supp. we book 1 room each when booking 2 rooms.

      can you tfer points to your wife and book 1 room in each’s name so get at least 2 of the 3 rooms with free bfast.

    • Anna says:

      Is there no decent Hampton or other Hilton brand where breakfast would be included anyway? This would be the best value for 6 of you.

    • TGLoyalty says:

      Each supp holder can match Hilton Gold

      Book 1 room in your name and one in your wife’s and the hotel might give you all breakfast anyway. Infact email or phone them before booking and ask if they will.

  • Shoestring says:

    Flybe collapse: will coronavirus kill off more airlines? – great article in The Times, get behind paywall by googling [Flybe has been on life support for years, having been narrowly saved twice in the past 12 months alone. ]

    • marcw says:

      But cheap fares were the problem. According to management.

      • Shoestring says:

        poor cashflow because people aren’t booking and paying in advance for tickets over the next 6 month

        half empty planes but the overhead is still nearly as high as before

        failing the ‘going concern’ analysis/ judgement

    • Brighton Belle says:

      Shoestring is good but has work to do 🙂
      Full marks for Press Reader tips but I always hit the Times Paywall following his guidance. Doh, what am I doing wrong?

    • Alex Sm says:

      It’s an ok article, not that revealing…
      But there is another one underneath which IS interesting as it provides an insight from a well-placed industry source:

      “The fallout from the global coronavirus outbreak is likely to trigger more mergers and takeovers in the airline industry, the boss of one of the world’s largest carriers has said.
      Ben Smith, 48, chief executive of Air France-KLM, said that the drop in bookings caused by the outbreak would intensify pressure on airlines to curb capacity and consolidate.”

  • Shoestring says:

    O/T Coronavirus – fancy that, it’s often mild:
    [Coronavirus patients are no longer all being admitted to hospital, British health officials have confirmed. Anyone confirmed to have the virus who is not seriously unwell or at risk of becoming more dangerously infected can recover at home. At least 45 people out of the 116 confirmed in the UK have already been instructed to stay in their own houses and wait for their illness to blow over. ]
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8079763/UK-coronavirus-patients-no-longer-admitted-hospital.html

    • Shoestring says:

      [Safe travels! Experts say pick a window seat, don’t move around the cabin, disinfect tray tables and use a touchscreen with a tissue to keep coronavirus at bay on a plane (but masks WON’T help)]
      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8078677/Coronavirus-travel-tips-Sit-window-seat-disinfect-tray-tables.html

    • Chrisasaurus says:

      Hmmm.. ‘often’ is a way off your original posture, though

      • Shoestring says:

        masks are pretty pointless unless you are the spreader, coughing & spluttering

        • Odin says:

          I’ve been reassured it’s a Pussycat virus so no precautions for me

          • Lady London says:

            Pussycats may look fluffy and cuddly but are vicious predators.

            Didn’t Australia try to ban cats as pets for that?

      • Shoestring says:

        I don’t deny there are possibly serious complications for old folk or those with underlying medical problems, something was always going to carry them off

        we don’t live forever

        • Chrisasaurus says:

          You can say the same about crossing the road without looking

          What about the doctor in Wuhan who was told to stop raising the alarm? Istr he was reasonably young and healthy?

          I promise you I don’t want there to be any cause for concern – clicking my username demonstrates why – but its definitely above a zero

  • Dave says:

    Can anyone wit experience of Amex Platinum help me out with a query on Flybe flights. My scenario is as follows:
    – flights booked by my partner via lastminute.com travelling out on easyJet (no issue) but returning on Flybe
    – no refund opportunity from lastminute.com for flight only bookings
    – paid for on my partners Amex platinum Supplementary cardholder card
    – nowhere in the lastminute.com breakdown does it show the costs of the FlyBe flights

    Is it suggested that I should seek a chargeback for a partial amount (not sure how I obtain this) and then rebook the Flybe return leg via a different airline? If so do I have to cover the difference in cost myself (as s.75 consequential losses won’t be applicable to both a charge card booking and a booking via a 3rd party agency!)

    Also is Amex Platinum travel insurance of any use here? It’s a cancelled flight Which I could interpret as meaning costs upto £x are covered per person for alternative travel. However I can’t see anything in the policy which includes a provision for airline failure but equally can’t find anything to suggest there is an exclusion for airline failure!

    Wondering if anyone has previous experience of this sort of scenario and what approaches have been successful.

    • Freddy says:

      What does last minute.com have to say about it? I’d make contact with them first. S.75 may not apply due to last-minute being classed as an intermediary and such claims will not succeed.

      How much are the easyJet flights at the minute, minus that off the total and make a chargeback for that if last-minute don’t assist

      • Dave says:

        Lastminute,com have advised that they cannot issue a refund or any changes to the flights booked and that as this is a flight only booking I should make my own arrangements for alternative travel.

        Yes I was thinking the overall booking cost minus cost of the original easyJet outbound flight at current price would be appropriate but didn’t want to just come up with my own approach in case that invalidates the chargeback claim.

        Fairly sure that s75 won’t apply so won’t even explore that option.

        Does anyone know if Amex platinum travel insurance can kick in for claiming the cost of replacement return flights (assuming chargeback unsuccessful for a partial amount)?

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