British Airways uses redundancy threat to push all cabin crew into low-paid ‘Mixed Fleet’

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• Bonglim says:

  1 May1 May 08:16

  If you have worked 12 years I think you will be entitled to 1 years pay tax free through redundancy – that is still a hefty bill for a company that is struggling with liquidity – and if the other option was that you pay was halved, it is the equivalent earnings for 2-3 years.

  The flip side is returning to work in the industry you have been with for over 10 years looks unlikely if you are made redundant. There are not loads of other airlines looking to make new hires.

  • J says:

    1 May1 May 08:28

    It’s a lot less than you’d be entitled to in France or Germany though.

    • Rob says:

      1 May1 May 08:59

      What are you talking about? This is what you get unless your contract says otherwise:

      “For each full year you’ve worked for your employer, you get:
      age 18 to 22 – half a week’s pay
      age 22 to 40 – 1 week’s pay
      age 41 and older – 1.5 weeks’ pay”

      • Andrew says:

        1 May1 May 09:08

        And that “weekly wage” is capped at £538/week (for redundancies from Tuesday next week) – although many people’s weekly wage won’t reach that level, of course.

      • CV3V says:

        1 May1 May 09:15

        Yup, that’s statutory redundancy pay. Dont know what it is stated in BA contracts as it may differ, old contract may be more generous and not apply a cap.

      • E says:

        1 May1 May 09:27

        And the maximum statutory redundancy pay you can get is £16,140 regardless of how many years you’ve worked.

      • Lady London says:

        1 May1 May 09:47

        For our European friends, the figures quoted above by Rob isEVERYTHING you get if you are made redundant in the UK.

        You have no other legal entitlement except 1 week’s notice(yup to 3 mnonths in job) or 4 weeks notice (any longer period that was in that job) when you lose your job.

        The kicker : you do NOT even get the figures quoted by Rob, if you did not work 2 years in the job.
        You do get the 1- 4 weeks notice(which you are likely to be obliged to work in a majority of cases).

        Weep for us, Europe !

        • A says:

          1 May1 May 10:21

          Statutory minimum notice periods for the UK are:

          – 1 week, if employed for less than a year
          – 1 week per year if employed for more than a year, up to 12 weeks for 12 years or more

          Not sure where the 4 weeks’ notice maximum comes from.

        • Robin Hood says:

          1 May1 May 11:14

          I imagine most crew are on some form of notice period – either 1 or 3 months?

      • luckyjim says:

        1 May1 May 09:57

        I’d be very surprised if long standing BA staff are on statutory redundancy terms.

        • J says:

          1 May1 May 10:07

          Redundancy pay is not specified in a contract. Read Rob’s original post. Legal minimum is all BA are paying – which in the UK is very poor.

        • ken says:

          1 May1 May 10:28

          J,

          Frequently legacy contracts do have contractual redundancy terms.

          You also have 12 weeks notice if you have worked for 12 years or more.

          I’d like to hope BA would come to a reasonable settlement for those made redundant – sticking to statutory terms will leave a bad taste for a long time.

          It risks getting into a war with challenges over fair consultation and fair selection.

        • Lady London says:

          1 May1 May 10:49

          @ken it’s an opening positioning by BA but it stinks, even considered as just an opener.

• callum says:

  1 May1 May 08:24

  Maybe that was meant to be a rhetorical question, but it would need to be WW3 before I’d even consider thinking about joining the RAF… Not everyone is obsessed with money!

  • Paul Pogba says:

    1 May1 May 09:09

    But think of the opportunities to travel to Berlin, Brussels and Paris!

    • Spaghetti Town says:

      1 May1 May 09:30

      And the Falklands, Ascension Island and Akrotiri!

      • Heathrow Flyer says:

        1 May1 May 10:35

        You’re unlikely to be going to the first two of these – as they are/were served by the commercial carrier, Air Tanker. Ascension hasn’t been served for several years by Air Tanker, however, as the runway is, well, knackered.

      • Spaghetti Town says:

        1 May1 May 12:37

        @Heathrow flyer I never know what air tanker doesn’t and doesn’t do.

      • Alex W says:

        1 May1 May 14:01

        Most of the ‘Air/Ground Stewards’ at any one time are ground based, so yes you could well be deployed to an overseas base even if it is not served by RAF aircraft.

• Bagoly says:

  1 May1 May 08:35

  Mixed Fleet pay is too low to get people to stay long enough to become really expert.
  The costs of legacy crews are way above current market rates (Rob mentions different layover rules etc which add costs without increasing staff income)
  As a customer wanting good service without high fares I dream that the end result might be something in between.
  Does anybody know what the numbers would look like if all crew were Mixed Fleet but with double the current rates?

• Antony D'Emanuele says:

  1 May1 May 08:38

  Whilst I acknowledge the challenges that BA faces, I can’t help but see this is an opportunist move and exploiting the circumstances to reduce costs. A successful business looks after staff, this could be more damaging to BA than the pandemic…

  • Lady London says:

    1 May1 May 09:52

    I hope so.
    I’m fine with BA treating staff like this. British Airways has the full right to determine this commercial imperative. My sympathies are genuinely with them .

    But if BA wants to be commercial, UK government can becommercial too.
    No support.
    Take their slots.
    Strip them of the British flag.

    The wrote the rules they want to play by. Purely commercial. We hear them.

    • memesweeper says:

      1 May1 May 15:45

      I believe slot allocation is governed by international treaties so it’s not easy for the government to “repossess” them. However, I think they could declare that slots are an interest in land, and tax them as a % of market value. That would p*ss on BA’s parade pretty heavily.

      Keep ratcheting up the taxes until Heathrow is no longer slot constrained — now who needs a third runway?

      I’m available to join HMT or DOT as a special advisor 🙂

• Bruce Morgan says:

  1 May1 May 08:46

  BA has to move with the times to compete with Norwegian and others. The industry has moved on, and while I don’t agree with how the Mixed Fleet crew are paid or their conditions are worse (I’m ex-crew by the way), I now run a business no where near the size of BA, and it couldn’t be a better time to restucture and future proof the business. Thats what every business should be doing in so its in the best position when we move out of this crisis. If none of us do many other people won’t have jobs to return to.
  BA potentially moving out of Gatwick means other airlines will move it. Thats a good move if you’ve ever flown in a high density 777 based there. Easyjet shoulder barging them to South terminal was the tipping point and now they can make that break. Gatwick is a leisure market and that isn’t what BA cares about. I want to see more of Westjet, Delta and others there if they think there is a market in the future.
  Being ex-crew and flying BA its always noticable (and a disgrace) seeing the legacy fleet flinging out a meal service as quickly as possible, only to retire to the galley yawning and moaning about their conditions – while my experience of mixed fleet crew is all smiles, energy and friendly chat despite their different conditions. Why should all our ticket money be spent on supporting these over-paid crew? Perhaps the job had glamour in the 70’s/80’s and 90’s but the world is (was) flying now and legacy crew need to have a hard think about either another career or retiring. It’s a hard, demanding job, so BA needs to meet somewhere in the middle to retain and encourage crew who care about the people they fly and also the company and country they are representing worldwide.

  • Mikeact says:

    1 May1 May 09:01

    Thanks for the insight….care to elaborate….’overpaid crew’ ?

  • J says:

    1 May1 May 09:45

    Compete with Norwegian? They’re nearly bankrupt. There’s examples of good and bad service from Mixed Fleet and Worldwide/Euro. MF are often enthusiastic but they’re usually inexperienced and always will be because staff turnover will always be very high with such poor pay and conditions.

  • Robin Hood says:

    1 May1 May 11:29

    Why should all our ticket money be spent on supporting these over-paid crew?

    Would you prefer your ticket money to go straight into the pockets of shareholders instead?

    • Rob says:

      1 May1 May 11:41

      What does ‘overpaid’ mean though?

      If you want 21 year olds then, yes, you clearly don’t need to pay more than £16k all-in because you can get people for that.

      If you want 35-40+ year olds who may have a better rapport with the premium customers and actually know the difference between a chardonnay and a sauvignon blanc then £25k-£30k will be the going rate as these people are not living with their parents.

      I coud replace my entire team with people at half the price, as could most businesses. There are good reasons why we don’t.

      • Alex M says:

        1 May1 May 12:58

        “Overpaid” is when there are much more applicants than jobs, which will be a case very soon. As of the difference between different wines, I would introduce a two days in-house training to educate on this very important topic – would be cheaper than paying thousands pounds p.a. more, unnecessarily.

        • Rob says:

          1 May1 May 14:09

          To be fair, BA could solve this problem easily. Lufthansa has dedicated crew for each class and they are trained appropriately. There is a very high bar to be let loose on First Class passengers and when you are there you serve the same stuff each day and get to learn about it. BA is totally random, so Mixed Fleet crew could be Euro Traveller to Ibiza on Saturday and First Class to New York on Monday.

        • Anna says:

          1 May1 May 18:33

          That explains why I always find BA cabin crew clueless about wine! The last flight I was on used the F cabin for overspill J passengers (and we were lucky enough to get put in there, the moral of the story being don’t bother paying for J seats in advance!) I asked as I joke if they were serving LPGS and the crew member replied, “What’s that?”. This doesn’t bother me though as I know wine and never need a recommendation!

      • Mikeact says:

        1 May1 May 13:06

        So, I assume then that £25/30k is the going rate for legacy LH crew….and my guess, as I don’t have the foggiest idea, is that you can double that figure over the year with all the add ons, making quite a nice deal. (If you can get on board.)

      • Bruce Morgan says:

        1 May1 May 19:29

        Be worth quoting what legacy long haul crew earn and let people be the judge of what is overpaid. I think most people would be shocked. Surely most people flying Club would know a good wine – plus all crew go through the same training on the service.

        • Bruce Morgan says:

          1 May1 May 19:31

          Quite often its over £70k – and some earn more than newer flight deck.

• CV3V says:

  1 May1 May 08:48

  As article mentions, a lot of BA crew do not live around London, they commute from across the country (and Europe) on standby tickets to get to London to start their ‘shift’. Those staff are mostly on old contract, asking them to move onto mixed fleet and then do short haul flights will be painful.

  One thing about BA is that when often the hard product has been a let down its been the crew that make up for it. The KL flight used to be staffed by worldwide and the crew were always great, very competent, their job was second nature to them. The change to mixed fleet crew was noticeable, the crews are still ok, but no where near as good as the worldwide crews.

  • HoneymoonFlyer says:

    1 May1 May 08:57

    On averages you may be right but the best flight I’ve ever had was with MF to KL.

    • CV3V says:

      2 May2 May 08:09

      Then it’s a shame you never got to experience the old contract crew! My experiences with them was a match to the standards of CX. Since KL restarted I have done about 20 return flights there, starting with old contract crew and the change to Mixed fleet. All on points 😉

      nowadays there is a rush to get service done ASAP and disappear to crew rest, and leave one member of staff reading a magazine (which is the VS economy approach).

  • hello says:

    1 May1 May 13:26

    i would be surprised if their contracts didn’t require them to live within a reasonable distance from their base. I’ve heard in the past of a pilot who lived in Australia and commuted to work! I knew a pilot when I was much younger too that commuted from Barcelona. Seems a bit of a risk!

    • ChrisC says:

      1 May1 May 16:09

      I have a BA cabin crew friend who lives in Amsterdam

      He flies over the afternoon / evening before (not the last flight!!) his duty flight and stays locally over night at LHR and gets his required rest etc

      Does the same when he is blocked as stand by and that meets the availability requirement of his contract.

• Bazza says:

  1 May1 May 09:20

  No one takes a job! If it was a matter of “taking” a job I am sure they would all take something higher paid. You have to apply an be OFFERED a job!!

  You need to join the real world matey!

• Gary says:

  1 May1 May 09:23

  Meanwhile over at LGW IAG threaten closing the BA base. Hmmm, would they ever fully leave the airport? How about IAG simply transferring routes to a combination of Vueling and LEVEL. Vueling left to expand with Spanish crews into short haul European routes. LEVEL apply for a split AOC, under a UK one operating say 4/5 x BA 772 for now, BA LGW crew base closed but ex BA LGW crew offered positions at LEVEL on even poorer conditions and allowances. The new UK LEVEL left to operate the MCO/Caribbean flight on the long-haul low cost model.

  • Spaghetti Town says:

    1 May1 May 09:32

    I see BA keeping the long haul operation at Gatwick with their own aircraft and moving the short haul to Vueling or Level. I think they’d love to transfer it all to Level, but they can’t move the 14 777’s or whatever is in Gatwick up to LHR.

  • ChrisBCN says:

    1 May1 May 15:10

    Vueling wouldn’t pick up extra shorthaul aside from the Spanish BA flights. Level would be given the short haul and long haul on account of their superior brand. And Level already run many of IAG’s non-Spain short hauls around Europe.

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