Why is British Airways charging lower taxes to inactive Avios members?

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• Phillip says:

  11 Mar11 March 05:57

  Or if they transferred/purchased Avios to make the booking the pricing would technically disappear too…

  • Erico1875 says:

    11 Mar11 March 06:03

    That was what I was thinking.
    Bait and switch

    • kitten says:

      11 Mar11 March 13:47

      sufficient points might have had to reach the account before it went inactive.

      I can’t believe the amounts BA takes in cash alongside avios tickets to the US have snuck up so much.

      And lying BA, who got done in court for this by calling money they take ‘fuel surcharges’ when it had nothing to do with fuel, is still calling those amounts ‘taxes’.

• Chrisasaurus says:

  11 Mar11 March 06:05

  It’s not tax!

  • Barry cutters says:

    11 Mar11 March 06:23

    People have made this argument for as long as I can remember . Who cares what it’s called – it’s generally referred to as taxes and charges – we then group these together and call them taxes ..

    Using the same logic – When you go to the bar and come and say ‘ bloody hell- it’s £8 a pint ‘ your mate doesn’t reply and go ‘well actually it’s not – it’s £x a pint and £x import tax £x vat , £x duty .

    Same applies to your £1000iPad or your £1 can of coke . You don’t care that it’s 20% vat .

    Taxes and fees need paid on redemption flights – get over it .

    • Chrisasaurus says:

      11 Mar11 March 06:29

      Don’t be obtuse. My point is precisely that taxes are part of the price.

      What isn’t part of the price is arbitrary additional parts of the price that get tacked on. If your £8 pint was free because you have collected 10 stamps on a card and yet cost you £6.50 in ‘bar imposed charges’ then letting the bar get away with renaming that ‘tax’ as a conscious effort to make it seem as though it’s not their revenue would be equally daft

      • John says:

        11 Mar11 March 06:46

        Good analogy.

        Rob manages to get his terminology right on his recent eurostar article by calling it a redemption fee there

      • ChrisC says:

        11 Mar11 March 06:56

        The point is that simply calling them “taxes” gives the impression that all of that money is going to the Government when it clearly isn’t.

        I’m taking the worst example from above but of that £1956 on the SFO flight less than 10% is UX Tax (APD) and a roughly similar total covers US taxes and airport fees in the UK and US.

        So the bulk of that is BAa surcharges etc which definitely isn’t a tax.

        Does it affect the price? No it does not but it creates the wrong impression over who gets that £ 1956

        Rob isn’t the only travel writer who does this but it perpetuates a misconception and professional writers need to stop aiding the airlines in propagating this myth.

        Look at the new “COVID fee” at LHR that’s not a tax but many writers called it a “COVID tax” when it’s clearly not a tax. It blames the wrong people for imposing it.

        • Chris Heyes says:

          11 Mar11 March 07:42

          ChrisC An easy way would be for HMRC to claim that all tax’s must be paid to itself
          As collector of tax’s
          BA would then have to inform the purchaser how much was tax and how much is bull****

        • Lady London says:

          11 Mar11 March 17:39

          Very well said @ChrisC

      • Mike says:

        11 Mar11 March 07:19

        Chrisasaurussays – Love the “£6.50 in ‘bar imposed charges’ way of explaining it – I see it much clearer now

    • John says:

      11 Mar11 March 06:40

      That’s the point – they are taxes (charged by the government) AND FEES (charged by the airports and BA)

      • Barry cutters says:

        11 Mar11 March 06:49

        Yes I fully understand the argument about what is technically a fee , or what is technically a tax .

        My point is simply Its been called that for decades . Do you really care enough to continue making the argument.

        The flight is that price whatever way you look at it . – and you as a customer have full rights to not bother with the loyalty option and pay retail price for your flight .

        Just get over it, enjoy the fact you are flying business class for only £800 in fees, taxes , postage stamps whatever you want to call them

        • Louie says:

          11 Mar11 March 07:01

          I’d agree with you IF all airlines imposed the same surcharges – they would be inescapable. But they don’t. You can use miles in various different airlines schemes to fly on exactly the same airplane, in exactly the same seat, yet pay hugely different cash amounts in addition to your miles. BA are of course the worst for this. If people don’t keep distinguishing between taxes and surcharges, newcomers to this game would not realise that generally, BA redemptions are worse value than their competitors. And yes I appreciate that is not the whole story as Avios may be easier to acquire than their competitors miles are.

        • Chrisasaurus says:

          11 Mar11 March 08:20

          Turn around then if it’s so unimportant why do they do it, choose to call it taxes as opposed to postage stamps?

          The reason, as you know perfectly well is that it gives a misleading impression that the fees are inescapable statutory contributions to the treasury when in fact they’re nothing of the sort.

          It’s *intentionally* misleading and quite frankly if the best defence for it is that they’ve been doing for ages…

        • cinereus says:

          11 Mar11 March 08:57

          Yes they clearly do care enough and fair play to them. Precision does no harm and, as can be shown in this case, is actually quite important.

        • ChrisC says:

          11 Mar11 March 10:02

          Twice you said people should ‘get over it’ .

          That’s not the way to win friends and influence people. It’s also a sign you have no arguments against our points.

          Same with ” …been called that for decades”.

          Does not make it right.

        • JAXBA says:

          11 Mar11 March 10:23

          Well, BA refers to ‘taxes, fees and airline charges’ – it’s the layman (and HfP) that keeps using ‘taxes’ as a lazy shorthand for TFCs. Then other people keep misunderstanding what BA is collecting and get upset.

          Airlines no longer refer to all the TFCs as just ‘taxes’. We shouldn’t either. Especially HfP, which ignites this debate in the comments every time they use the term incorrectly. ‘TFCs’ doesn’t make for a punchy headline though…

        • Barry cutters says:

          11 Mar11 March 12:05

          I’m not trying to make friends abs influence people . I’m simply saying that it doesn’t matter what the article calls them – if you want to use the proper terms then look at the specific t&c .

          My point was simple
          I’ve been just been to Costa and bought an American and a granola slice – it cost £5.90 .
          I just don’t need someone to pipe up and say – ‘actually it cost £5.60 and 5% vat .

          If the coffee was 1p and the service fee was £5.89 I couldn’t care less . If the total price wasn’t acceptable – I wouldn’t buy it .

          Ba don’t call the charges taxes – they are doing nothing wrong . And neither is HFP by simplifying things and using that term .

          At the end of the day – why do you achieve by arguing it time after time – the price is what it is – either use your points for a flight at the well publicised (good value) rates , or don’t .

        • Nick says:

          11 Mar11 March 12:52

          It does kind of matter what they’re called. BA had to stop calling YQ/YR a ‘fuel surcharge’ few years ago after coming into trouble with US authorities… seemed it never went down if oil prices fell… so it’s now a ‘carrier imposed charge’ instead. I personally wouldn’t want to give BA any ammunition to claim that ‘everyone just calls it tax, even though it’s not’.

  • Andrew says:

    11 Mar11 March 14:13

    “tax” is a TLA

    Taxes And eXtras

• Wolfgang says:

  11 Mar11 March 06:31

  I have 5 avios in my account and 60,000 in the family account, here’s what i see:

  60,000+150
  45,000+250…

• Wolfgang says:

  11 Mar11 March 06:34

  And this for biz:

  125000 Avios + £ 624.22
  112500 Avios + £ 914.22
  93800 Avios + £ 1,244.22
  75000 Avios + £ 1,564.22
  70000 Avios + £ 1,694.22
  62500 Avios + £ 1,794.22

• Wolfgang says:

  11 Mar11 March 06:36

  I am based in Germany, so maybe some VAT issue

  • ChrisC says:

    11 Mar11 March 11:05

    If this was for Germany-LHR-SFO then UK APD wouldn’t be charged so an immediate saving of approx £180.

• Polly says:

  11 Mar11 March 06:43

  Yep, that’s handy one. Can let my SIL do the booking to Bali from his non active/non earning baec ac in Y on QR for the 3 of them maybe? Must have a look. Or does it apply to BA flights only?

  • Sam G says:

    11 Mar11 March 06:57

    I imagine BA flying only, looks like something to do with the “RFS” for long haul implementation perhaps

  • Paul says:

    11 Mar11 March 07:41

    Polly, if considering Bali, BA ex many EU cities is current circa £1600 in business. Route is xxx lhr hkg dps.
    Of course you can’t get into Indonesia and Bali doesn’t look likely to open any time soon but it’s a good price and straight to silver BAEC.
    QR ex ARN has also been lower than usual of late

    • Sam G says:

      11 Mar11 March 10:04

      If you’re going Y I very much doubt Avios are a good idea anyway, plenty of options for 500 odd quid. Personally I’d avoid anyone running 787s or 3-4-3 777s on long flights which is a lot of people into Bali (Emirates, Turkish, Qatar etc) – Singapore Airlines usually have some good deals on and are very pleasant in Y

      Of course this depends when you are looking, there is some discussion about getting a “Green zone” open in parts of Bali and allowing tourists in perhaps in Q4 but realistically I’d be only thinking of Bali in summer 2022

• S says:

  11 Mar11 March 07:16

  RFS

• marcw says:

  11 Mar11 March 07:21

  It’s the long haul RFS.

  • Polly says:

    11 Mar11 March 07:23

    Ah yes, missed the rfs part.. but could go BA via hkg or sin then from lhr. Must look into this…

    • Lady London says:

      11 Mar11 March 17:44

      Especially if you somehow ticket so the return starts from Hong Kong as they don’t allow the same level of additional charges for tickets starting from there ?

This article is closed to new comments. Feel free to ask your question in the HfP forums.